Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 171614 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #900 on: November 21, 2011, 05:20:10 AM »
Continued . . .
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #901 on: November 21, 2011, 05:21:42 AM »
Continued . . .
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #902 on: November 21, 2011, 05:22:40 AM »
Continued . . .
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #903 on: November 21, 2011, 07:02:27 AM »
I was so intrigued by Signor Coccia, I started searching a bit.  This came up, and I found both the video and the comments posted at the bottom of the page very intriguing... especially those made by Signor Coccia and Signor Marco Parente!

http://blog.paperogiallo.net/2010/12/lievitazione_lunga_migliore_qualita.html

Ciao,
Salvatore

First I have not seen the two videos mentioned above. However:
Funny you found that because I only intervened in that debate as above my comments there was a lot of confusion, including the statements made by Sig. Coccia.  It is not their fault as many pizza makers do not have a lot of education and some of the stuff they know comes from people that feeds them the version of the truth they like... (suppliers, etc..)
Back to Lievito madre, the dough in the wrap etc..., there is again a lot of confusion. The diversifications to do are many, in particular:
Pizza dough differ from Bread dough
Natural leavened dough (by a coulture of wild yeast and lactobacilli) vs Single strain commercial yeast

And from this the various method of producing each dough with each leavening agent. I have talked about this before. The further complication comes from the history of breadmaking in Italy, communal ovens etc.. To cover just one aspect (mentioned above I believe), the dough covered in the cloth, was a way for a family to preserve a starter until the following week when they would make the dough and use their slot in the town’s communal oven. We can all conclude that it would not have applied to daily production of pizza dough, could we?

Thanks,

M

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #904 on: November 21, 2011, 09:03:49 AM »
Which one is Marco in the video?  I have always wondered what such a knowledgable man/ oven builder / pizza Neapolitana walking encyclopedia looks like.  Not that looks matter, but I am human to wonder, right?
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Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #905 on: November 21, 2011, 11:22:22 AM »
Which one is Marco in the video?  I have always wondered what such a knowledgable man/ oven builder / pizza Neapolitana walking encyclopedia looks like.  Not that looks matter, but I am human to wonder, right?
I don't think Marco is in the video, he just posted his statement on that blog.

But like you I have wondered what Macro looked like, because as you said, I'm only human. There are a couple pictures on the Pizzeria Salvo site. The picture below is of the two brothers(left and right) who own/operate Salvo. The guy with the blue shirt is Nello Daniele a musician. And the guy with the huge smile in the back, I think is Marco but I could be wrong.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #906 on: November 21, 2011, 11:47:50 AM »
I don't think Marco is in the video, he just posted his statement on that blog.

Thanks Brick Stone Oven.

For all : this is a google translate of Marco's post on the blog : 

"You should also make the distinction between "rising" and "mature." The maturation process is the most important and that makes a difference by making better (if the whole process is done on purpose) "pasta" (or base) of the pizza. The modern flour are much stronger than those who went to Naples 100-200 years ago. The "strength" of flour (as mentioned by Mr. Enzo Coccia measured in W) has more than indicate a more or less strong gluten (protein amount and then a more or less high) corrsiponde in starch content more or less high. The aging effect is on protein structures (gluten) and starch and thanks to those of the respective enzymes, making the product more digestible. The action of enzymes is their quantity parameter definition, dough moisture, temperature and time and with strong flour today, it would take much, but a lot of time to perfect maturity that makes the pizza (neglecting the effect of dressings) digestible. Moreover, a perfectly ripe, thanks to the secondary products of the same enzymatic process (acidity and release of molecules saprore) make the same basic pizza even more tasty, and for this reason that the real production Crisceto (but not yeast dough carry-over ...), and quantity, timing and methodology must be different from that of the bread, surely you get the best product"

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Offline kiwipete

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #907 on: November 21, 2011, 04:58:24 PM »
I don't think Marco is in the video, he just posted his statement on that blog.

But like you I have wondered what Macro looked like, because as you said, I'm only human. There are a couple pictures on the Pizzeria Salvo site. The picture below is of the two brothers(left and right) who own/operate Salvo. The guy with the blue shirt is Nello Daniele a musician. And the guy with the huge smile in the back, I think is Marco but I could be wrong.

That is not Marco Parente...

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #908 on: November 21, 2011, 08:26:58 PM »
I think Marco my be the guy in the middle of the photo, near to the oven, at Reply 49 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6371.msg58782.html#msg58782.

Peter

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #909 on: November 21, 2011, 09:20:03 PM »
I would like to kindly ask, what is the significance of this thread being marked as a "sticky topic"? Whatever it may import, and if it is intended toward me at all, I would like to earnestly state that it should not mean that I am an authority (although I am trying my best to educate myself) on the tradition of Neapolitan pizza—an "oral tradition" that, in my opinion, can not be essentially captured in words, and that it has to be captured and kept alive by living it the Neapolitan way.

As a further consideration, I do not consider any of the pizzas that I have prepared and posted their photos herein as authentic Neapolitan pizzas. (I am still in search of the authenticity!) At best they may be construed as simulations of the real thing as my home gas oven is deficient, not to mention my character. Nonetheless, I am proud of myself to have been able to come this far! Ideally, what should matter is how much we can inspire, encourage, care, and wholeheartedly orient one another to excel in this art which, for me, is ultimately about an experience of being alive. As the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche insisted, the end of an "art" is not the art itself, but "life", to say "yes" to life with all its sorrows and sufferings: "Creation—that is the great redemption from suffering and life's growing light." Art has the power to cultivate the practitioner's "character" and seduce her or him to "life", distinct from "survival". Good night, friends!

Respectfully,
Omid
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 03:18:57 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #910 on: November 21, 2011, 09:25:49 PM »
I did not make it a sticky. Another moderator may have. I have seen cases of threads "spontaneously" sticking. Unless one of the other moderators chimes in, I'll unstick it. It continues to rise to the top because it is a very active thread.   

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #911 on: November 21, 2011, 09:27:47 PM »
I did not make it a sticky.

Peter

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #912 on: November 21, 2011, 09:29:16 PM »
It is now unstuck!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #913 on: November 21, 2011, 09:46:05 PM »
I did not make it a sticky. Another moderator may have. I have seen cases of threads "spontaneously" sticking. Unless one of the other moderators chimes in, I'll unstick it. It continues to rise to the top because it is a very active thread.

I did not make it a sticky.

Peter

Dear Bill and Peter, upon checking my email, I learned that Mr. Steve (the administrator) marked this thread as a "sticky topic". In my previous post, I hope I did not make an impression that I had any grievance, not at all. I just wanted to make certain that the respectable members and guests of this forum do not think I am someone that I am not. Good night gentlemen, and I thank you all for your efforts in making this forum possible!

Sincerely,
Omid
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #914 on: November 21, 2011, 10:10:40 PM »
Steve is the owner of this forum and of the pizzamaking.com site. If he made it stick, then it is now, once again sticky!

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #915 on: November 22, 2011, 12:52:06 AM »
I would like to kindly ask, what is the significance of this thread being marked as a "sticky topic"? ....
Respectfully,
Omid

The relevance/significance is the "fact" that "everyone" enjoys your post.  No person has deemed you as the authority on anything; but, we all interpret your post as the way that you see it, and from the way I see it, you know your stuff.  Many people learn from your knowledge, please continue to share.  :chef:
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #916 on: November 22, 2011, 04:11:33 AM »
I think Marco my be the guy in the middle of the photo, near to the oven, at Reply 49 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6371.msg58782.html#msg58782.

Peter



Indeed!

In any case, in the pictures of the Salvo's Brothers with Nello Daniele, the one at the back is the eldest brother, Francesco, a Civil Engineer by education that decided to go and help the administrative side of things when their father passed way. The black haired guy is Ciro Salvo, that since he was a kid has learned the trade working alongside his father and many other legendary pizzamakers that worked with them (and I now consider him the best pizzamaker in Naples with Luigi Condurro). The blond hairs one, is the youngest, Salvatore, that has mainly looked after the fried department at the pizzeria and worked as a Fornaio or second pizzaiolo depending of the shift. Recently he has been working as main pizzaiolo as well.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #917 on: November 22, 2011, 05:39:28 AM »
The relevance/significance is the "fact" that "everyone" enjoys your post.  No person has deemed you as the authority on anything; but, we all interpret your post as the way that you see it, and from the way I see it, you know your stuff.  Many people learn from your knowledge, please continue to share.

Dear Jet, I thank you and everybody else for your affection and kindness! I will try my best.
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #918 on: November 22, 2011, 05:44:37 AM »
Last night's bake, from the same batch of dough from Reply #899 above:
(http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg160507.html#msg160507)
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #919 on: November 22, 2011, 05:46:28 AM »
Continued . . .
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


 



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