Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 170982 times)

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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #920 on: November 22, 2011, 12:00:43 PM »
Last night's bake, from the same batch of dough from Reply #899 above:
(http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg160507.html#msg160507)


Nice looking effort. if you allow me, most of them must have quite a bitter taste, am I right?

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #921 on: November 22, 2011, 12:12:44 PM »
 marco don't sugar coat it.

Offline andreguidon

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #922 on: November 22, 2011, 12:25:52 PM »
i was going to ask the same, because of the yellow tone on the pizza, usually that happens wen excess flour burns.... in the lower hydration pizzas, the pizzas did not have this yellow tone under them...
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #923 on: November 22, 2011, 01:28:07 PM »
i was going to ask the same, because of the yellow tone on the pizza, usually that happens wen excess flour burns.... in the lower hydration pizzas, the pizzas did not have this yellow tone under them...

Bingo. I always think that is better to do a less hydrated dough that use tons of flour to handle a more hydrated dough..

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #924 on: November 22, 2011, 01:51:25 PM »
 now that is the tip i was looking for.now, will you will give some parameters. 55 to 60 % ?? maybe a little help till that book comes out??

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #925 on: November 22, 2011, 03:36:25 PM »
Granted, I am not trying to make traditional Neapolitan, but I do normally utilize 100% tipo 00 flour in my formula for sub 2 minute pies (I am currently using a 00-Bread Flour mix until I can get my LBE cook times down to less than 2 minutes).

I personally have found that at a 60% HR, the amount of bench flour needed while slapping is not nearly as much as at even a slight jump up to 62%. At 60% almost none is needed on the peel (just a very minute amount) while launching. With the advent of perforated peels like the GI Metal tools, I would imagine the bench flour getting into the oven should be reduced when compared to a wooden peel, regardless of the hydration. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #926 on: November 22, 2011, 06:37:13 PM »
now that is the tip i was looking for.now, will you will give some parameters. 55 to 60 % ?? maybe a little help till that book comes out??

It is not a tip and there are no fixed percentages. My dough may be more or less hydrated but if one cannot handle it and the superior qualities get overcomed by defective handling and cooking, then better doing something different.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #927 on: November 22, 2011, 10:42:29 PM »
Nice looking effort. if you allow me, most of them must have quite a bitter taste, am I right?

i was going to ask the same, because of the yellow tone on the pizza, usually that happens wen excess flour burns.... in the lower hydration pizzas, the pizzas did not have this yellow tone under them...

Thank you for the compliment! The referenced pizzas, according to my sense of taste, were actually devoid of bitter taste. I characterize the flavor of the crusts as somewhat more than moderately lactic, accompanied with a gentle, but steady, whisper of sweetness. Notwithstanding, my $99 home gas-oven has its inherent physical and gastronomical limitations as a matter of course.

In respect to the bitter flavor that is attributed to the use of excessive flour, I utilized an inconsequential amount of bench flour in dexterously forming the dough discs. When I used to live in the Middle East, I worked at a sangak bakery where I acquired some practical skills in handling 85%-hydrated dough. On the first day at the job (which was mandated by my junior high), the master baker pointed out that learning how to work with wet dough is initially like learning how to swim: once the [impulse of] "fear" is overcome, you'll know how to keep yourself afloat! In another occasion, he connoted that if an astray dog (of which there were many in Tehran as in Naples) senses "fear" in you, it will likely pester you (i.e., stick to you like a wet dough, figuratively speaking)! I assume his point was fundamental: the psychological commitment—besides which, as you know, it is all in the hands, i.e., how virtuosically they can touch and inspire the dough. I esteem that hands such as those of Polydorus' or Michelangelo's is an ideal apotheosis of what deeds human hands are capable of. Dough is just another medium like paint or marble!

By the way, because of the light reflected onto the referenced pizzas from the colored table-covering, the pictures do not accurately portray the color composition of the under-skirts.

I have attached hereunder some photos of the "sangak" bread (one of the attractions that often allures Italian tourists in Tehran). Sangak is a traditional Persian sourdough flat-bread (about 85% hydration) baked inside a specialized brick oven whose floor is covered with a layer of naturally polished river pebbles. Good day!

Respectfully,
Omid
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 02:08:15 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #928 on: November 22, 2011, 10:43:18 PM »
Continued . . .
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #929 on: November 22, 2011, 10:56:01 PM »
omid, you are getting amazing results from you gas oven. the 45 pages that this thread covers is a testament to your importance to this group, who are trying to improve our methods. pizza making is our outlet and your input has been unbelievable thanks!!!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #930 on: November 23, 2011, 02:23:46 AM »
Omid (Or any member) have you kept a ledger on temperature and humidity in your environment reflecting to the amount of natural starter (fully active starter of course) you use?  I completely understand that some may ferment/store their dough, but I am talking about a straight Neapolitan mix.

Dear Redshirt, I am not sure if I fully understand your aim or concern. But, I have been keeping a log of indoor and outdoor temperatures, in addition to relative humidity, since March of this year mainly for the purpose of making an appreciation of the environmental factors in relation to dough production as a whole. Good night!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #931 on: November 23, 2011, 02:55:11 AM »
omid, you are getting amazing results from you gas oven. the 45 pages that this thread covers is a testament to your importance to this group, who are trying to improve our methods. pizza making is our outlet and your input has been unbelievable thanks!!!

Thank you! Unfortunately, my $99 gas oven is gradually falling apart, as it was not designed to withstand excessive temperatures. I have been running it at over 800° F about 5 times per week since two months ago. Last night, all the gaskets were busted and more. I will need to retire him soon. Good night!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline andreguidon

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #932 on: November 23, 2011, 05:35:17 AM »
By the way, because of the light reflected onto the referenced pizzas from the colored table-covering, the pictures do not accurately portray the color composition of the under-skirts.

I know how pictures could deceive us, i am not a really good photographer, but i have made nice looking pizzas and the photo did not transcribe what really happened.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #933 on: November 23, 2011, 06:34:43 AM »
I do not wish to entertain in an argument and I too know the limitation of digital photography, but on the prepared row pizza in the pictures below where it can clearly be seen flour dust coating the rim, and the underside up pizza shot (no reflection from table tops and I clearly know the yellow phenomenon, it can be seen excessive flour that does indeed cause a bitter and unpleasant taste.


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14506.0;attach=45468;image

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14506.0;attach=45491;image

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14506.0;attach=45495;image


Nevertheless, one of the better home effort I have seen, then you can take on board or less my comments.

regards,

M
Thank you for the compliment! The referenced pizzas, according to my sense of taste, were actually devoid of bitter taste. I characterize the flavor of the crusts as somewhat more than moderately lactic, accompanied with a gentle, but steady, whisper of sweetness. Notwithstanding, my $99 home gas-oven has its inherent physical and gastronomical limitations as a matter of course.
...........................
In respect to the bitter flavor that is attributed to the use of excessive flour, I utilized an inconsequential amount of bench flour in dexterously forming the dough discs.
...........
By the way, because of the light reflected onto the referenced pizzas from the colored table-covering, the pictures do not accurately portray the color composition of the under-skirts.
..........
Respectfully,
Omid

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #934 on: November 23, 2011, 08:23:27 AM »
another great tip. if that small amount of flour will effect taste i need a lot more work on opening my dough!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 10:24:56 AM by thezaman »

Offline andreguidon

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #935 on: November 23, 2011, 08:26:25 AM »
the use o flour is not the problem, the right slap technique so the flour falls off is the trick.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline msheetrit

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #936 on: November 23, 2011, 09:43:04 AM »
Omid

Your passion for pizza and art is amazing.

Great work, great pizzas, great photos.

I like how you play the guitar.

There is a lot to learn from you, you are very talented.

All that left to say is just wow!
michael

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #937 on: November 23, 2011, 10:26:01 AM »
wet dough would require a lot of flour on the top and bottom surface to dry it out. does that effect flavor?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #938 on: November 23, 2011, 10:31:14 AM »
wet dough would require a lot of flour on the top and bottom surface to dry it out. does that effect flavor?

I think so, but the main consideration is the stickiness of the dough, not the absolute HR. One objective of the entire dough management process for me is to maximize HR with minimum stickiness. Raw flour on the surface of the pie is to be avoided and no amount of slapping or shaking the pie on a perforated peel will knock off flour that has bonded to an overly sticky dough.

Offline andreguidon

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #939 on: November 23, 2011, 10:34:13 AM »
I agree with Bill!
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci