Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 174688 times)

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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1140 on: January 14, 2012, 07:07:17 PM »
Omid, you are continuing to pen what is now becoming the most epic, passionate and detailed food related topic/love affair (not just pizza) I can recall reading on the internet.....not too many books are at this level either.

You should write one! --K   :)
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1141 on: January 15, 2012, 05:44:49 AM »
Omid, you are continuing to pen what is now becoming the most epic, passionate and detailed food related topic/love affair (not just pizza) I can recall reading on the internet.....not too many books are at this level either.

You should write one! --K   :)


Dear Pizzablogger, thank you! Indeed, there are some philosophers who are synthesizing gastronomy with a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics (the study of beauty, especially in art). Professor Dwight Furrow, a local philosopher who teaches philosophy at Mesa College here in San Diego, has started a blog in this regard. The blog is entitled, "Edible Arts, Where Beauty and Flavor Mingle". Here is a preview:


"Food and wine are among the consummate pleasures of everyday life. But philosophy throughout its history has largely ignored these pervasive satisfactions. Preoccupied with the life of the mind, the activities of the body were presumed to be quite separate from and inferior to thought. After all, we are biologically predisposed to enjoy salt, sugar, and fat and it takes only a little effort and no cognitive skill to reap their rewards. Since, food and drink are tied to our primitive, animal instinct to survive and socialize, philosophy’s conceit has been to remain chastely untouched by passions that stir likewise in pigs at a trough.

Furthermore, our tastes seem so irredeemably idiosyncratic, subjective, and immune to standards that philosophers have typically decided food and wine could not be systematically studied.

I think all of this is quite misguided. [Thank you, dear professor Furrow!] The study of food and wine is cognitively interesting and enhances our enjoyment. Although subjective up to a point, the appreciation of food and wine is no more subjective than the appreciation of painting or music, all of which are profitably understood as subject to standards of evaluation.

Edible Arts—the blog and the newsletter—is devoted to unpacking these dimensions of food and wine that please the palette, the intellect, and the heart.
And we should not be so disparaging to pigs. There is no part of a pig I dislike—although I must confess never to have tried a pressed sow’s ear. There may be a line to draw here some place."
(http://foodandwineaesthetics.wordpress.com/page/3/)
(
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlqGgaNxbf0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlqGgaNxbf0</a>
)


In my opinion, a great deal of philosophical thoughts on aesthetics (conducted by philosophers such as Pythagorus or pythagoreans, Plato, Aristotle, Epicureans, Stoics, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Sartre, and etc.) is capable of being applied to the realm of Neapolitan Pizza, which is an art—a mouthful art!—after all. Deprive any philosopher from food long enough and see if he can continue his philosophical musings anymore!

By the way, the same trend has also been taking place in molecular gastronomy, which is a synthesis of physics, chemistry, and culinary arts:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlJKpt74TvI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlJKpt74TvI</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ArkHoyOWA0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ArkHoyOWA0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCBxGwzNhmg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCBxGwzNhmg</a>


Consider the amount of knowledge of physics and chemistry that has, for the most part subconsciously, been poured into preparing dough and transforming it into a Pizza Napoletana in a Neapolitan oven. Perhaps, it is just a matter of time before a molecular gastronomer intermix some kind of edible chemical with the buffalo mozzarella which turns, under high heat, into a thick and heavy mist hovering over the tomato sauce on a Pizza Margherita!  

Respectfully,
Omid
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 05:06:25 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1142 on: January 15, 2012, 10:08:05 PM »
Dear friends, in case you are interested, below are the pictures of my Santos fork mixer in action at full dough capacity: 5 kilos or 5000 grams. It was a totally different experience to mix and knead dough with the mixer at its full dough capacity. It was much easier to do so as opposed to mixing and kneading 2000 grams or less dough. It required much less manual intervention, using the technique I propounded in reply #803 in this thread. The 1st and 2nd pictures below illustrate 5000 grams of dough mixed and kneaded for 6 minutes and 50 seconds. (I should have done less kneading by about 40 seconds!) Now, after this experience, I am convinced that once Santos engineers manage to considerably reduce the fork speed, which is under way, this machine will make phenomenal Neapolitan dough for home use. At last, upon request, I included the last 3 pictures to compare, in terms of capacity, the Santos fork mixer with the Kitchen Aid Pro 620. Good night and have a great week to come!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 01:49:44 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1143 on: January 15, 2012, 10:08:52 PM »
Continued . . .
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1144 on: January 16, 2012, 03:26:21 PM »
Dear friends, in case you are interested, below are the pictures of my Santos fork mixer in action at full dough capacity: 5 kilos or 5000 grams. It was a totally different experience to mix and knead dough with the mixer at its full dough capacity. It was much easier to do so as opposed to mixing and kneading 2000 grams or less dough. It required much less manual intervention, using the technique I propounded in reply #803 in this thread. The 1st and 2nd pictures below illustrate 5000 grams of dough mixed and kneaded for 6 minutes and 50 seconds. (I should have done less kneading by about 40 seconds!) Now, after this experience, I am convinced that once Santos engineers manage to considerably reduce the fork speed, which is under way, this machine will make phenomenal Neapolitan dough for home use.

To followup on Reply #1142 above, below is a picture of the consequent dough balls after 14 hours of the 2nd fermentation at controlled room temperature. They are far from over yet!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1145 on: January 16, 2012, 03:30:44 PM »
To followup on Reply #1142 above, below is a picture of the consequent dough balls after 14 hours of the 2nd fermentation at controlled room temperature. They are far from over yet!

Omid - If you don't mind: What is your hydration here? Also, what steps are you taking between the first rest period and readying for the first fermentation period, stretch and fold, or another technique? The smoothness of the dough mass is impeccable.

John

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1146 on: January 17, 2012, 03:43:38 PM »
Omid - If you don't mind: What is your hydration here? Also, what steps are you taking between the first rest period and readying for the first fermentation period, stretch and fold, or another technique? The smoothness of the dough mass is impeccable.

John

Dear John, thank you! The hydration is at about 64.75%. In regard to your second question, after the rest period was concluded, I briefly conducted light stretch-and-fold (without unduly glutenizing the dough mass and inordinately disturbing the trapped air within) in order to embody the dough flesh in the dough skin. I think the rationale underlying this process is to aid in unifying the dough mass for the purpose of homogenizing the dough temperature and consistency (i.e., agreement between parts), which should bring about more uniform fermentation. And, in turn, it is expected that this will help in better formation of dough balls and their subsequent fermentation.

For the sake of experimentation, last night I baked two pizzas, using the same dough balls, in my home gas oven. The first pizza (pictures 1 to 3) was baked after 15 hours of room fermentation. (The duration of the initial mass fermentation was 3.5 hours.) The second pizza (pictures 4 to 5) was baked after 15+5 hours of room fermentation. Still not good enough! Nonetheless, I could clearly discern the ameliorative difference in making Santos dough at "full capacity". Given the type of culture I used and the amount thereof (2%), the dough balls will be in optimal state later on today. Have a great day!

Regards,
Omid
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline bakeshack

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1147 on: January 17, 2012, 04:12:55 PM »
Omid, thank you for the nice illustration.  The pizzas, even though they are not ready yet, still look great as usual!

Would you mind taking a picture of the dough balls when they are in their optimal state? 

Thank you. 

Marlon

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1148 on: January 18, 2012, 07:00:49 PM »
Omid, thank you for the nice illustration.  The pizzas, even though they are not ready yet, still look great as usual! Would you mind taking a picture of the dough balls when they are in their optimal state? 

Thank you. 
Marlon

Dear Marlon, first, I thank you dearly for the compliments! Second, I need to apologize for forgetting to take the pictures that you kindly asked for. Sorry! I will not forget the next time. Good night!

Sincerely,
Omid
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1149 on: January 18, 2012, 07:18:09 PM »
Dear friends, I would like to share with you a practical way—practical to a point—to practice rotating a Neapolitan pizza in a simulated fashion. Verily, to properly handle a Neapolitan pizza inside a Neapolitan oven is an art that on the surface seems uncomplicated, yet it has its own levels of difficulty, as I am sure both dear Craig and Matthew can affirm this fact. In my estimation, incompetent rotation of a pizza inside a Neapolitan oven—where the temperature is infernal and, hence, where time is of essence—can rip, burn, and/or negatively change the gastronomical qualities of the pizza. Furthermore, besides turning a pizza inside the oven, there are other intimately related factors of importance:

1. When to approach the pizza with the turning peel;
2. What part(s) of the pizza rim, sitting on the oven floor, to approach with the turning peel;
3. The angle at which the peel should approach the pizza;
4. The angle(s) at which the peel should be maintained during the rotation;
5. The type of pizza (not excluding the type of dough that serves as the foundation of the pizza) that is to be rotated; and
6. More. . . .

To do this practice, I take a fresh flour tortilla (12 inches in diameter) and top it with tomato paste, with heavier concentration on the rims in order to simulate the weighty cornicione. (See the 1st picture below.) Sometimes, I pour a little amount of water in a warm pan and briefly warm up the bottom of the tortilla in it in order to make it somewhat fragile. Next, I place a pizza stone on top of a table or platform that is more or less elevated to the height of the floor of a Neapolitan oven. At last, I start spinning my simulated pizza placed on the pizza stone. (See the 2nd picture hereunder.) This way, since I am not bound by the time limits of a Neapolitan oven, I can take my time to do this simulated practice without waisting precious dough. Of course, turning a real pizza on the floor of a Neapolitan oven is not exactly the same, yet my proposed simulation is a great start! Please, let me know if anyone has alternative methods of practicing this art. Thank you and good night!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:59:35 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1150 on: January 18, 2012, 07:36:33 PM »
Omid, I must ask.  You do practice with no one else around, right?  I know you've got the music going in the background, but I'm just wondering what the neighbors / loved ones might think.  LOL.
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Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1151 on: January 18, 2012, 07:46:42 PM »
omid, that is a great way to practice that spin.the spin is amazing to watch it takes a lot of skill to do it.i find that the friction on the edges of the pizza on the floor aid the turn if you have the room. roberto encourages pulling a pizza out of the oven and rotating on the shelf if needed.the same for pepe at antica in L.A he wants complete consistent cooking and if it needs to be removed to make room to finish the bake then pull it out for a few seconds.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1152 on: January 19, 2012, 01:32:27 AM »
Omid, I must ask.  You do practice with no one else around, right?  I know you've got the music going in the background, but I'm just wondering what the neighbors / loved ones might think.  LOL.

Dear Jet_deck, I am not sure if I fully understand the essence of your questions, so forgive me if my answers are going to be out of tune. Actually . . . it just occurred to me that you are probably referring to the "annoying noise" of the turning peel being abrasively chafed against the pizza stone—while the noise is rendered even more aggravating with the sound of music (sometimes heavy metal) in the background! What else? How silly of me that I did not immediately grasp the spirit of your questions. :-D You got me! >:(
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1153 on: January 19, 2012, 07:39:11 AM »
omid, that is a great way to practice that spin. the spin is amazing to watch. it takes a lot of skill to do it.i find that the friction on the edges of the pizza on the floor aid the turn if you have the room. roberto encourages pulling a pizza out of the oven and rotating on the shelf if needed.the same for pepe at antica in L.A he wants complete consistent cooking and if it needs to be removed to make room to finish the bake then pull it out for a few seconds.


Dear Thezaman, thank you! I am of the same mind with you in that the friction of the relatively weighty pizza rims can act as an itinerant or mobile axis about which the pizza revolves. Adroit handling of a pizza with a turning peel, as you put it, "takes a lot of skill"—particularly when your dough disc, akin to Da Michele's, is delicate and large in diameter. See the 1st picture below, which shows how prodigious Da Michele's pizzas are. (The source of the picture is: http://reallyplayingforpizza.blogspot.com/2008/03/best-pizza-in-world.html.)

Have you noticed the large diameter of Da Michele's turning peel? The one I used in the pictures above is a little smaller than 8 inches in diameter, which is typically used in many pizzerias. Da Michele's turning peel is probably about 10 inches or more, which is probably more instrumental in handling their delicate and large pizzas. See the three of pictures of Da Michele's turning peel below. In the last picture, I copied the entire disc of the turning peel and superimposed it on the pizza next to it in order to give you an idea as to how large the turning peel is. Keep in mind that in relation to the lens of the camera which took the picture, the disc of the pizza peel is farther in space than the pizza; hence, the the superimposed copy of the disc should actually be larger in real time-space. Have a great day!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxziymzXclg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxziymzXclg</a>
(Da Michele)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZntS3Hw2SY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZntS3Hw2SY</a>
(Da Michele)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osIMdcXEqls" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osIMdcXEqls</a>
(Kesté Pizza & Vino)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0MLl9qFBtc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0MLl9qFBtc</a>
(Pizza Punch)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd_D-7Ep0wE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd_D-7Ep0wE</a>
(Singapour)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHPCDmLgsv8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHPCDmLgsv8</a>
(Italy)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxSrAbzwdHs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxSrAbzwdHs</a>
(Kuwait)

« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:54:16 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline JConk007

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1154 on: January 19, 2012, 09:15:18 AM »
Omid as always great stuff !I have gone to a 9" peel.  A canadian guy named Matthew ordered one from me a while back.  ;) After holding it in my hands, I realized it was a very good idea. also , I would like your thought on the placement of the  device during the bake. Leave it in the oven ?on the floor ? toward the dome?  back to edge / mouth between turns?
thanks
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Matthew

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1155 on: January 19, 2012, 10:42:53 AM »
Omid as always great stuff !I have gone to a 9" peel.  A canadian guy named Matthew ordered one from me a while back.  ;) After holding it in my hands, I realized it was a very good idea. also , I would like your thought on the placement of the  device during the bake. Leave it in the oven ?on the floor ? toward the dome?  back to edge / mouth between turns?
thanks
John

Quick tip; if you keep the peel in the oven, it will get too hot & will stick under the pizza when you try to spin it. 

Canadian guy named Matthew

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1156 on: January 19, 2012, 11:00:35 AM »
Dear Omid:

I have been reading this thread from the its enlightening inception through its many permutations and digressions into the aesthetics of the pizza art.   I have to say, of all the blogs I have read and discussions of various food types, it is by far my favorite, and I try to digest another new idea from it each day.  Thank you!

  I read of your experiences with the Santos mixer, and was motivated to research alternative ways of changing the speed to your liking.  Here is one possible avenue of effort: although the mixer cited in the article is the KA, I can't imagine the process would be appreciably different for the Santos.


How Can I Put a Rheostat on a KitchenAid Mixer?
By Heather Lindsay, eHow Contributor
     
Print this article
A rheostat is a type of potentiometer with two terminals used to control the amount of electricity that reaches a device. They are used in light dimmer switches, fans, soldering irons, generators and other electrical devices that require precise control of electrical current. There are some available that are constructed to plug a device into with a dial to control the speed or temperature of the item plugged into it. These rheostats are the easiest to use with a KitchenAid mixer that has a broken speed control, as they do not require installation inside the mixer.

Related Searches:
Difficulty: Moderately Easy
Instructions

1
Ensure that the rheostat and mixer are set in the "Off" position.

2
Plug the rheostat into the wall socket.

3
Connect the KitchenAid mixer's electrical plug into the available female socket on the rheostat.

4
Turn the mixer on to its highest setting while leaving the rheostat off.

5
Adjust the dial on the rheostat slowly upward until the mixer reaches the desired speed.



Thank you again, and I hope I have helped you in some small way!

Regards,
Brian
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1157 on: January 19, 2012, 11:42:28 AM »
 Canadian guy Mathew, i have seen some pizza guys heat the turning peel up then slide it under .i thought they were doing that to help set the bottom dough.is this what they may be doing?
  omid, good call on that larger turning peel,looks like they use it at pizzeria bruno as well.

Offline Matthew

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1158 on: January 19, 2012, 11:58:17 AM »
Canadian guy Mathew, i have seen some pizza guys heat the turning peel up then slide it under .i thought they were doing that to help set the bottom dough.is this what they may be doing?
  omid, good call on that larger turning peel,looks like they use it at pizzeria bruno as well.

Hi Larry,
I've seen that done as well & I'm not sure why. I tried it once & it didn't work out well.  It may not stick if the bottom has already set. I like to move the pizza around frequently for evenness.

Matt

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1159 on: January 19, 2012, 03:42:31 PM »
Omid, two oldie but a goodies with regards to turning a pie in a Neapolitan oven (Acunto in this instance).

One way to go about it:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALD2FK_BsY8&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALD2FK_BsY8&amp;feature=related</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNWPcbRW0Ak&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNWPcbRW0Ak&amp;feature=related</a>
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 03:47:08 PM by pizzablogger »
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell


 



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