Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 380376 times)

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Offline Ev

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1320 on: March 02, 2012, 07:32:38 PM »
Simply amazing looking pizzas there! I never get tired of looking at your work.


Online TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1321 on: March 02, 2012, 10:13:59 PM »
Peter and Salvatore.  Correct me if I am mistaken, but doesn't maturation or more specifically the action of enzymes occur as soon as water is added to flour?  And generally speaking, doesn't enzyme activity occur at a faster rate at higher temperatures?

Chau, I'm sure there is some enzymatic activity as soon as water is added to the flour, but an acidic environment not only favor the activation of enzymes in the flour, but also creates an ideal environment for them to work. The lactic acid bacteria are not only creating the acid that makes this happen, they are also directly making proteinases. All of this suggests that enzyme activity accelerates over time. This might give the appearance of maturation in the "late stage." http://aaccnet.org/cerealchemistry/samplepdfs/1215-04R.pdf

You are correct about enzyme activity accelerating in a warmer environment (up to a point anyway).

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1322 on: March 03, 2012, 04:17:53 AM »
Very nice find Craig.  Thank you for posting the link.  Makes more sense now.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1323 on: March 03, 2012, 05:41:10 AM »
Omid,

That is interesting material. Marco (pizanapoletana) used to use the word "ripening" and "ripe" instead of "maturation" and "mature", respectively. See, for example, Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1085.msg9700/topicseen.html#msg9700 and Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,986.msg9055/topicseen.html#msg9055. While Marco did not provide the level of detail of your last post, my recollection is that the ripening phase took place for the individual dough balls once divided from the bulk dough after the main fermentation.

Peter

Dear Peter, I thank you for the links. In regard to dough "maturation" or "ripening", you may find the following of interest. Back in December of  2010, a video about fermentation time and other matters was posted in an Italian food blog1. The video ensued an online discussion amongst some commentators, which included the Neapolitan pizzaiolo Mr. Enzo Coccia and Mr. Marco Parente. To my surprise, Mr. Coccia commented:

"The point is not the 'DURATION OF LEAVENING' ['lievitazione', as used by Coccia], but 'THE QUANTITY OF YEAST USED'. If we use a flour suitable for Neapolitan pizza, endowed with a very dense gluten, therefore very resistant, using one gram of yeast per liter of water and about 1.8 kg (approximately) of flour, it will need at least 10 - 12 hours of leavening ['lievitazione', as used by Coccia]. . . . In fact, the protein content of flour affects the quality of gluten and also the strength of the flour. The greater the protein of flour, the greater will be the strength of the gluten and the better the ability of the flour to make an elastic dough. The 'W' factor, which indicates the strength of flour, is correlated precisely with the amount of protein. The higher the 'W', the stronger the gluten network that is generated, and the stronger the dough. In this case, the flour will absorb more water and, being harder, require a longer leavening, because such a hard and dense [gluten] network creates resistance to the formation of gas pockets inside dough. Then there are the variables of humidity, temperature, and dough consistency. I can prepare, always with one gram of yeast at a temperature of 24 degrees (summer) [24º C = 75.2º F], a very soft dough that rises in 5 hours; and a dough with one gram of yeast at a temperature of 10 degrees (winter) [10º C = 50º F], with a different consistency (point of pasta) of flour, which is much harder, does not rise before 12 hours. Dough technique is fundamental, because before the biological rising [i.e., before fermentation or leavening] there should be the physical rising, that is, an increase in dough volume caused by mechanical action and oxygenation of the dough. Then a dough so to speak 'Swollen' and 'Aerated', rises much faster. In conclusion, I can say that it is possible to prepare a dough light and digestible with a rise of four hours, it's all about knowing how to do it."

Quote
The original text in Italian:

"Il punto della questione non è la 'DURATA DELLA LIEVITAZIONE', ma 'LA QUANTITA’ DI LIEVITO USATA'.  Se usiamo una farina, adatta per la pizza Napoletana, dotata di una maglia glutinica molto fitta, quindi molto resistente, usando un grammo di lievito per un litro d’acqua e circa 1,8 Kg (circa) di farina, serviranno almeno 10 – 12 ore di lievitazione. Se invece usiamo un tipo di farina adatta per la piazza a Metro, molto più debole, a parità di lievito e acqua lieviterà molto più velocemente, impiegando meno della metà del tempo necessario ad una farina adatta per la piazza Napoletana. Infatti, Il contenuto proteico di una farina influisce sulla qualità del glutine e anche sulla forza della farina. Maggiore è il corredo proteico della farina, maggiore sarà la forza del glutine e migliore sarà la capacità di quella farina a dare un impasto elastico. Il fattore W che indica la forza di una farina, è correlato appunto con la quantità di proteine. Più alto è W, più forte è il reticolo che il glutine va a creare, più forte sarà la pasta. In questo caso la farina assorbirà più acqua e essendo più dura richiederà una lievitazione più lunga, perchè tale reticolo duro e fitto crea resistenza alla formazione di alveoli. Poi ci sono le varianti dell’umidità, temperatura e della consistenza dell’impasto. Io posso preparare, sempre con un grammo di lievito ad una temperatura di 24 gradi (estate), un impasto molto morbido che mi lievita in 5 ore, ed un impasto con un grammo di lievito ad una temperatura di 10 gradi (inverno), con una consistenza (Punto di Pasta) diversa di farina, cioè molto più duro, che lieviterà non prima della 12 ore. Fondamentale è poi la tecnica d’impasto, poiché prima della lievitazione biologica vi è la lievitazione fisica, ossia un aumento di volume causato da un’azione meccanica, quindi, insufflando aria all’interno dell’impasto. Quindi un impasto per così dire 'Montato' e 'Areato', lievita molto più velocemente. In conclusione posso affermare che è possibile preparare un impasto leggerissimo e digeribile anche con una lievitazione di quattro ore, tutto sta nel saperlo fare."

Mr. Parente remarked, presumably in response to Mr. Coccia:

"You must also make the distinction between 'leavening' ['lievitazione', as used by Marco] and 'maturation' ['maturazione', as used by Marco]. The maturation process is the most important, and that makes a difference by making better (if the whole process is skillfully executed) 'dough' (or base [crust]) of the pizza. The modern flours are much stronger than those made in Naples 100-200 years ago. The 'strength' of flour (as mentioned by Mr. Enzo Coccia measured in 'W') points beyond a more or less robust gluten . . . [it] also corresponds to a more or less high starch content. The maturation affects both the protein structure (gluten) and the starch, and thanks to the enzymes making the product more digestible. The action of the enzymes is relative to their quantity, dough moisture, temperature and time; and, with the strong flours of today, it would take but a long time to perfect ripeness ['maturazione', as used by Marco] that makes the pizza (omitting the effect of toppings) digestible. Moreover, a perfectly mature [dough], due [also] to secondary byproducts of the same enzymatic process (acidity and release of 'saprore2' molecules), makes the same basic pizza even more tasty; and for this reason the real production to Crisceto (mother yeast, but not the old dough...), the amount, method, and timing should be different from that of bread, surely achieves the best product."

Quote
The original text in Italian:

"Si deve anche fare la distinzione tra 'lievitazione' e 'maturazione'. La maturazione é il processo piú importante e che fa la differenza rendendo migliore (se tutto il processo é fatto ad arte) la 'pasta' (o base) della pizza. Le farine moderne sono molto piú forti di quelle che giravano a Napoli 100-200 anni fa. La 'forza' della farina (come detto dal Sig Enzo Coccia misurata in W)oltre ha indicare ad un glutine piú o meno forte (quindi una quantitá proteica piú o meno alta)corrsiponde anche in un contenuto di amido piú o meno alto. La maturazione influisce sia sulle strutture proteiche (glutine) che quelle dell'amido e grazie all'azione dei rispettivi enzimi rendendo il prodotto piú digeribile. L'azione degli enzimi é ralativa alla loro quantitá, umiditá dell'impasto, temperatura e tempo e con le farine forti di oggi, ci vorrebbe molto, ma molto tempo per una perfetta maturazione che rende la pizza (tralasciando l'effetto dei condimenti) digeribile. Inoltre una perfetta maturazione, grazie ai prodotti secondari dello stesso processo enzimatico (aciditá e rilascio di molecole di saprore) rendono la stessa base della pizza ancora piú gustosa, e proprio per questo che con la vera produzione a Crisceto (lievito madre ma non la pasta di riporto...), che per quantitá, metodologia e tempistica deve essere diversa da quella del pane, si ottiene sicuramente il prodotto migliore."

I think a point of great import that Mr. Parente is trying to get across is that, a well risen dough—particularly risen within a short period of time and using a stronger flour—does not necessarily signify that it has reached the state of maturation. Hence, he asserted, "You must . . . make the distinction between 'leavening' [rising] and 'maturation'."
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. http://blog.paperogiallo.net/2010/12/lievitazione_lunga_migliore_qualita.html
2. The Italian word "saprore", used by Marco in his remark, might be a misspelling of the word "sapore", meaning "flavor".
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 04:01:47 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline Matthew

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1324 on: March 03, 2012, 07:26:32 AM »
To add to this, another point of consideration is that the optimal maturation (highest level of digestibility) is relative to the type of flour being used.  For example, all things being equal,  a very weak flour, say W 140-170 will likely have an absorption of 50% & will mature in 3-4 hours at a room temperature at 23 degrees.  To contrast a very strong flour; >W350 will have an absorption of roughly 57% & will mature at an optimal room temperature of 23 degrees in 12-16 hours.

Matt

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1325 on: March 03, 2012, 04:20:52 PM »
Omid, I think you are correct in the reasoning behind the duration of your puntata and appretto.  The longer the dough sits in bulk fermentation (puntata) the more exponentially it will ferment.  This will initially result in leavening, and if left too long, the dough will start to break down.  By shortening this first process, and lengthening the appretto, we allow for more time to elapse and more subtle aromas to develop.

Also, as the author mentions, the change between the puntata and appretto requires manipulation of the dough.  As soon as we do this, we force the gluten network to tighten.  One of the goals is to allow it to slowly soften, therefore by performing our transition earlier, we provide the dough with the benefit of added time without the interruption of human hands.  

I hope I am clear.  Thank you so much, especially for the original copy.  I try to read as much Italian as I can, and it is obviously more interesting when the subject is so near and dear to my heart!

Grazie tante,
Salvatore

Dear Salvatore, I clearly understand your point. I would like to point out that my comments on the initial short fermentation of dough mass followed by long fermentation of the resultant dough balls are not intended to attenuate the value of the inverted procedure (i.e., initial long fermentation of dough mass followed by short fermentation of the resultant dough balls). I think each method has its own particular merits. Have a great weekend!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 04:21:02 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1326 on: March 03, 2012, 04:24:52 PM »
Omid, beautiful pies as always.  Sorry if I missed this before, but why did you treat the fermentation process of the 2 doughs (AP vs caputo) differently?  Also how much variation in the mixing times existed between the 2 doughs?  Did you mix both doughs to the same point of pasta?  IMO, 2 doughs (short bulk vs long bulk) may require a different amount of kneading to bring about optimal results for each dough.

If you were to repeat the test using just caputo, the exact same formulation and kneading for both doughs, the long bulk dough will always be relatively "tougher".  I suspect that it is possible to arrive at very similar levels of tenderness using a short or long bulk (or somewhere in between) as long as the development of gluten (kneading) is adjusted accordingly.

Chau

Dear Chau, I implemented the initial short fermentation of dough mass followed by long fermentation of the resultant dough balls with the Giusto dough (of which I know very little) in order to see how it handles the process in comparison to my previous experiences with the Caputo Pizzeria dough. Next, when I prepared the Captuo Pizzeria dough, I opted to perform initial long fermentation of dough mass followed by short fermentation of the resultant dough balls in order to make sure the dough would reach the same destination as the Giusto dough by the time the guests would arrive. When I prepared the doughs, I had about less than 30 hours before the arrival of the guests. The Giusto dough was mixed and kneaded by Kitchen Aid mixer, using the dough hook, for about, I am conjecturing, 8 − 10 minutes. The Caputo dough was mixed and kneaded by Santos mixer for about 3 minutes. Understandably, both doughs had different consistencies after kneading. Have a great weekend!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 04:22:16 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1327 on: March 03, 2012, 05:46:53 PM »
Omid,

Thank you very much for the translated exchange between Messrs. Coccia and Parente. Some time ago, I found a "W" table and posted it along with some comments at Reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4986.msg42545/topicseen.html#msg42545. I think it amplifies the point that Matthew made.

Peter

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1328 on: March 03, 2012, 07:16:54 PM »
Omid - In the most positive way, there is a rustic, beautiful unevenness in the cornichone of your latest pizzas. What part of the workflow do you attribute this to?

John

Omid, I'm with John on your latest pies.  I really love the "rustic" look of these pies.  For some reason, they really appeal to me.  Maybe even more than your other pies. Are you sure you didn't bake these in a wood oven???  

Marlon

Thank you for the compliments, gentlemen! Please, allow me to ask you, what do you precisely mean by "rustic unevenness" and "rustic look", respectively. I am not familiar with the definition of the word "rustic" in the sphere of baking. I appreciate your clarifications in this matter.

Dear Marlon, I assure you the pizza, as shown below, was baked in my modified home gas-oven. I should point out that the referenced pizza was baked with the oven door open, as demonstrated below. I have poured a great many hours into designing, modifying, and refining the oven, top to bottom, over and over, through and through! Good day.

Regards,
Omid  
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 04:24:53 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1329 on: March 03, 2012, 07:20:50 PM »
Omid,

Great looking pies as usual!  Just curious what cheese brand are you using?

Scott D.

Dear Scott, thank you! The cheese is fior di latte by "Angelo & Franco" (http://angeloandfranco.com/), and I purchased it from the local Whole Food here in San Diego, CA. Good weekend!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 02:43:39 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1330 on: March 04, 2012, 03:51:59 AM »
Tonight's bake (using the same recipe and procedure in Reply #1312):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg174595.html#msg174595
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1331 on: March 04, 2012, 03:56:49 AM »
Simply amazing looking pizzas there! I never get tired of looking at your work.

Dear Ev, my gratitudes!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

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Offline bakeshack

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1332 on: March 04, 2012, 04:16:03 AM »
Omid, I was just kidding with you on the wood oven, of course.  I guess what I meant with the "rustic look" comment was that your latest pizza really looked to me like it was made by a real artisan where the pizza is truly exhibiting character and not something that looks too perfect and generic.  I feel the same way about your other pizzas but there is something about the last one which made it stand out and get noticed out of all the beautiful pies you have already made in the past.  I really think that the pizza you are making looks better everytime and I can only hope to achieve such level of quality in my own pies.  Thanks.

Marlon

Offline bakeshack

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1333 on: March 04, 2012, 04:21:04 AM »
Tonight's bake (using the same recipe and procedure in Reply #1312):


Amazing pizza!  How did you like the Angelo & Franco cheese?  I have tried it multiple times before and it seems bland although I like how it melts in the pizza.  Also, I noticed how "white" it is compared to other mozzarella especially once it melts.  Thank you!

Marlon

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1334 on: March 04, 2012, 05:16:37 AM »
Omid,

Thank you very much for the translated exchange between Messrs. Coccia and Parente. Some time ago, I found a "W" table and posted it along with some comments at Reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4986.msg42545/topicseen.html#msg42545. I think it amplifies the point that Matthew made.

Peter

Farina con W = 160 maturazione tipica in 2 ore.
Farina con W = 180 maturazione tipica in 3 ore.
Farina con W = 210 maturazione tipica in 4 ore.
Farina con W = 240 maturazione tipica in 6 ore.
Farina con W = 260 maturazione tipica in 9 ore.
Farina con W = 280 maturazione tipica in 12 ore.
Farina con W = 300 maturazione tipica in 15 ore.
Farina con W = 320 maturazione tipica in 24 ore.
Farina con W = 380 maturazione tipica in 48 ore.
Farina con W = 400 maturazione tipica in 72 ore.

As I have noted previously elsewhere, the “deformation energy” factor “W” is not a common one in the U.S. Millers use it but retailers who sell flour, such as King Arthur, for example, do not disclose W values in their literature made available to retail buyers. Caputo and other European millers do report those values. There are many places where one can learn about flour parameters and characteristics, but one of my favorite places is the Cook Natural Products website at http://www.cooknaturally.com/detailed/detailed.html. If you read the section on the W factor, I think you will see that W values are fairly closely correlated to flour type, principally to the strength of the flour as reflected by its protein and gluten content. So, the weaker the flour, the lower the W value and the shorter the fermentation time, and vice versa. Temperature will come into play simply because it can materially affect the length of the fermentation period. In practice, you will have to adjust for temperature changes by altering the hydration (by using more or less flour), by increasing or decreasing the amount of yeast (or preferment/starter), or by adjusting the salt content. I imagine that the table recited above is approximate only and possibly tied to a particular room temperature, not a wide range of temperatures. . . .

Peter

Dear Peter, I sincerely thank you for the link. Do you remember the source for the "W"-maturation correlation table?

Farina con W = 160 maturazione tipica in 2 ore.
Farina con W = 180 maturazione tipica in 3 ore.
Farina con W = 210 maturazione tipica in 4 ore.
Farina con W = 240 maturazione tipica in 6 ore.
Farina con W = 260 maturazione tipica in 9 ore.
Farina con W = 280 maturazione tipica in 12 ore. ⬅[Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour]⬇
Farina con W = 300 maturazione tipica in 15 ore.                                      
Farina con W = 320 maturazione tipica in 24 ore. ⬅[Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour]⬆
Farina con W = 380 maturazione tipica in 48 ore.
Farina con W = 400 maturazione tipica in 72 ore.

Primarily, I am wondering how the source construes or defines "maturation". And, secondarily, I would like to know the conditions—such as degrees of hydration, salt (if any), yeast (if any), temperature, and etc.—under which the maturation times were determined in the table. I took the liberty of marking the "W" for the Caputo Pizzeria flour (280-320) on the table. Again, thank you for everything and all your exemplary services to the members of this marvelous forum!

Regards,
Omid
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 04:48:49 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Matthew

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1335 on: March 04, 2012, 05:54:44 AM »
Dear Peter, I sincerely thank you for the link. Do you remember the source for the "W"-maturation correlation table?

Farina con W = 160 maturazione tipica in 2 ore.
Farina con W = 180 maturazione tipica in 3 ore.
Farina con W = 210 maturazione tipica in 4 ore.
Farina con W = 240 maturazione tipica in 6 ore.
Farina con W = 260 maturazione tipica in 9 ore.
Farina con W = 280 maturazione tipica in 12 ore. ⬅[Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour]⬇
Farina con W = 300 maturazione tipica in 15 ore.                                      
Farina con W = 320 maturazione tipica in 24 ore. ⬅[Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour]⬆
Farina con W = 380 maturazione tipica in 48 ore.
Farina con W = 400 maturazione tipica in 72 ore.

Primarily, I am wondering how the source construes or defines "maturation". And, secondarily, I would like to know the conditions—such as degrees of hydration, salt (if any), yeast (if any), temperature, and etc.—under which the maturation times were determined. I took the liberty of marking the "W" for the Caputo Pizzeria flour (280-320) on the table. Again, thank you for everything!

Regards,
Omid

Omid if I may, perhaps Peter could add to my statements & disclose the source referenced above.

I have spend quite a bit of time on this & it is very complex to say the least.  As far as yeast goes, there have been arguments made that using a consistent value say 4-5g/litre of water under the exact same conditions will yield the optimal maturation as per the aforementioned chart.  I would use that yeast value as a starting point & make the necessary adjustments from there.  I believe that the best tool for this is the DDT (Desired Dough Temperature) method.  The most  difficult part of this method is finding the correct FF (friction factor) of your mixing method.  Once you figure this out you will be well on your way to achieving consistent results.  One thing that I have learned is that a  highly hydrated dough is not necessary in achieving optimal results.  A good quality strong flour is already rich in moisture and in actuality requires less water.

By the way; Stellar looking pizza!

Matt
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 08:25:26 AM by Matthew »

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1336 on: March 04, 2012, 07:31:31 AM »
 :)

Matt, I completely agree on DDT being a vital component to achieving consistent results.

The FF can be difficult to figure for home pizza makers, particularly when considering many of us like to experiment with different mixing methods which may change the FF of a given batch.
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Offline pizza dr

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1337 on: March 04, 2012, 08:09:27 AM »
Omid

I think what is the major difference from the pie that was referenced as rustic is the cheese placement.  At least that is what I see that is different from your previous pizzas.  Normally your mozzarella is oblong and perfectly spiraled around the pie.  

The mozzarella on this pizza seems to have a more random placement without as much symmetry.  

MY .02 cents worth of observation ( I must also admit that I have not had my coffee yet this morning ;D)

Personally... I think it is one of  the most beautiful pies I have ever seen.

Scot
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 08:19:53 AM by pizza dr »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1338 on: March 04, 2012, 08:43:10 AM »
I believe that the best tool for this is the DDT (Desired Dough Temperature) method.  The most  difficult part of this method is finding the correct FF (friction factor) of your mixing method.

Matt is illustrating some of the norms in the commercial baking world and is dead on in his assessment. I have been reading on this subject extensively and have tried to use it with some success - it probably is more effective with large masses of dough instead of small. On page 57 of Suas, Advanced Bread and Pastry:

"To calculate friction factor, first find the number of degrees the dough will rise when mixed in second speed for one minute [commercial mixers usually have 1, 2 or 3 speeds]. Then, multiply this number by the number of minutes the dough will be mixed in second speed."

This statement is useless unless you know how long you are mixing your dough. And you find that out by an exact calculation specified using the RPM of your mixer type, also found in Suas. This in turn will allow you to create a calculation for water temperature which leads to your DDT or Desired Dough Temperature. Here is an example:

Base Temp: 225 degrees (DDT [75 for example] x the number of factors below [3])
Less Room Temp: -65 degrees
Less Flour Temp: -65 degrees
Less Friction Factor: -8 degrees

Water Temp = 225 - ( 65 + 65 + 8 ) = 87 degrees for water temperature

Now you know what temp water to add to your dough to get the DDT using the mixing time for your workflow.

John

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1339 on: March 04, 2012, 11:42:48 AM »
Dear Peter, I sincerely thank you for the link. Do you remember the source for the "W"-maturation correlation table?

Omid and Matthew,

I couldn't recall where I found the table, so I did a Google search with the table information. I got these documents in Italian:

http://www.pizza.it/content/tre-mulini-pizza-ii-parte

http://www.pizza.it/forum/varie/faria-alimonti-nuova-zelanda

http://www.pizza.it/content/informazioni-cottura-e-impasto

http://www.pizza.it/forum/cottura-della-pizza/ma-secondo-voi-lolio

http://www.pizza.it/forum/impasti/x-coppi-puntata-lunga

http://www.pizza.it/content/tre-mulini-pizza-w

http://www.pizza.it/forum/impasti-pizza/aiuto-consigli-impasto-alla-napoletana#comment-form

It looks like the "W" table I cited has really made the rounds. Plus it looks like there are a lot of comments on the subject in the above linked sites.

Peter


 

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