Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 181676 times)

Protoolskaiser and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6318
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1440 on: April 10, 2012, 11:19:34 PM »
Omid, I understand that pizza napoletana is very personally defined by different people, but if your assessment stands true, then #3-#7 would describe many a naples pizzas I've seen in pictures.  Largely, flat rimmed, non leoparded, timid, and aesthetically uninteresting.   

Chau

Offline Giggliato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 191
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1441 on: April 12, 2012, 04:58:26 PM »
 
One question though.  After one of the turns of the pizza in the video there was a considerable amount of "char" left on the oven floor ( its at about 1:32 on the video).  Is that normal?  I've noticed that I have been running into that problem on occasion and can not figure out the cause to this point.  If I see the area on the floor has some char after I turn the pizza, I move it to another spot, otherwise the crust can end up with a slight over- charred flavor.  Thoughts?


I have been told to use the minimal amount of flour necessary to transfer the topped pie to the peel  in order to increase contact between the dough and the oven floor. Is that burnt flour left there on the oven floor between bakes? Doesn't this increase the cooking time of the pizza?

Also I would be very interested to see some pizza pictures made with the dough from your vacuum chambers.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1442 on: April 13, 2012, 05:11:34 PM »
I have been told to use the minimal amount of flour necessary to transfer the topped pie to the peel  in order to increase contact between the dough and the oven floor. Is that burnt flour left there on the oven floor between bakes? Doesn't this increase the cooking time of the pizza?

Also I would be very interested to see some pizza pictures made with the dough from your vacuum chambers.


Dear Giggliato, I reckon that nominal use of flour is patently a prudent advice, in order to ease fully enough slide the dough disc from the peel surface to the oven floor—in addition to avoid embittering the crust flavor. In my experience, the burnt flour on the oven floor does not have substantial effect on the bake time (at least not in a Neapolitan oven); yet it can interfere with and upset the crust flavor. Normally, the burnt flour on the oven floor quickly turns into ash and dissipates. Nonetheless, it is rewarding to forgo its cumulation as much as practical.

I believe your last comment refers to my previous post, in Reply #1401 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg179593.html#msg179593), i.e., fermenting dough in an airtight vacuum. I have not explored that possibility much. When I do, I will post the results here. Have a great day!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 04:16:38 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1443 on: April 26, 2012, 01:33:35 AM »
This evening, on my day off, I went to Pizzeria Bruno Napoletano and baked some pizzas, using my own homemade Santos dough and the pizzeria's amazing Neapolitan oven. (I am grateful to Mr. Peter, my employer, for kindly letting me use the pizzerias's Ferrara oven.) As you can see in the 2nd picture below, the dough was not really up to the task! The dough was not fermented long enough. In addition, I used Armenian bottled water, which had unusual—I mean really excessive—amount of mineral salts in it. Although I used about 63% hydration and 1.2% sea salt in my Caputo Pizzeria dough formula, the resultant dough balls were very stiff and elastic, namely because of the water's inherent mineral salts. I should point out that the Armenian gentleman who sold me the bottled water did warn me about using very little or no salt at all in my dough!

Before I left the pizzeria, Mr. Peter kindly and generously fixed me a customized pizza (see the last two pictures below), composed of crushed tomatoes, buffalo mozzarella, calabrese salami, and red onion. The pizza was awesome!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1444 on: April 26, 2012, 01:34:12 AM »
Continued . . .
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Online Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6318
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1445 on: April 26, 2012, 08:22:28 AM »
Omid, your pizza made with the Armenian water looks great.  How much salt did you use in the formulation?

All the pizzas you post up look great.  I can't wait to try Bruno's this July.

Chau

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2510
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1446 on: April 26, 2012, 09:14:01 AM »
Omid - Some day I want to grow up and do what you are doing. I think your dough performed beautifully in that oven. Perfect melt on the cheese as well.

John

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8402
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1447 on: April 26, 2012, 09:41:10 AM »
I agree with Chau and John that your pies is beautiful, notwithstanding, I admire your standards!

Craig
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline randyjohnsonhve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 131
  • Location: Coeur D'Alene, Idaho
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1448 on: April 26, 2012, 12:46:32 PM »

Omid...Love to see you back...miss your wisdom and knowledge...

RJelli :chef:
"Pizza Evolves...Our Best Pizza Ever is Not Today." It is 'what' is right, not 'who' is right that matters.

Offline Pulcinella

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1449 on: April 26, 2012, 05:41:06 PM »
This evening, on my day off, I went to Pizzeria Bruno Napoletano and baked some pizzas, using my own homemade Santos dough and the pizzeria's amazing Neapolitan oven. (I am grateful to Mr. Peter, my employer, for kindly letting me use the pizzerias's Ferrara oven.) As you can see in the 2nd picture below, the dough was not really up to the task! The dough was not fermented long enough. In addition, I used Armenian bottled water, which had unusual—I mean really excessive—amount of mineral salts in it. Although I used about 63% hydration and 1.2% sea salt in my Caputo Pizzeria dough formula, the resultant dough balls were very stiff and elastic, namely because of the water's inherent mineral salts. I should point out that the Armenian gentleman who sold me the bottled water did warn me about using very little or no salt at all in my dough!

Before I left the pizzeria, Mr. Peter kindly and generously fixed me a customized pizza (see the last two pictures below), composed of crushed tomatoes, buffalo mozzarella, calabrese salami, and red onion. The pizza was awesome!

All the pizzas look great. Having tasted Bruno pizza, the bruno pizza pictures you posted above don't do it justice. The pictures don't show how DELICIOUS and DELICATE the crust is like da michele. I can enjoy just eating the crust by itself without any toppings which is what I will do next time. I and my daughter have been trying hard to duplicate bruno dough, not easy. I'll be back soon to be inspired. I look forward to more pctures.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1450 on: April 27, 2012, 06:40:45 AM »
Omid, your pizza made with the Armenian water looks great.  How much salt did you use in the formulation? All the pizzas you post up look great.  I can't wait to try Bruno's this July.

Chau

Omid - Some day I want to grow up and do what you are doing. I think your dough performed beautifully in that oven. Perfect melt on the cheese as well.

John

I agree with Chau and John that your pies is beautiful, notwithstanding, I admire your standards!

Craig

All the pizzas look great. Having tasted Bruno pizza, the bruno pizza pictures you posted above don't do it justice. The pictures don't show how DELICIOUS and DELICATE the crust is like da michele. I can enjoy just eating the crust by itself without any toppings which is what I will do next time. I and my daughter have been trying hard to duplicate bruno dough, not easy. I'll be back soon to be inspired. I look forward to more pctures.

Dear friends, I sincerely thank you all for your flattering remarks. Too bad we all live far from one another; otherwise, we could have had a spectacular gathering, whereby all pizzamaking.com members could meet face-to-face!

Dear Chau, the salt percentage of my dough, apart from the water's own natural mineral salts, was 1.2%. I feel that it would have been a better dough by the time I baked the pizza if I had used 0% salt, as the Armenian water was already salty enough. I find it very interesting that Armenians like salty water like that. Yesterday, I bought some Russian, Ukrainian, and Georgian mineral water, all of which also taste overly salty! Perhaps, it is an acquired taste in that region of the world.

Dear John, I have been studying the metal stand of your wood-fired oven. It is a simple and practical design. I particularly like the white stone or marble shelf adjacent to the landing zone of your oven. The shelf seems to practically act as an extension of your oven landing. I am very close to purchase a wood-fired oven—if my landlord allows me to remove the wooden fence (which is exactly like yours in your picture below) for the oven to enter the patio. If my landlord approves, I like to have a welder build me a stand like yours. Please, let me know if you have any thoughts on the stand. Thank you!

Dear Craig, over a week ago, a couple of my ex-colleagues called and asked me, "Have you seen Craig's new pizza workbench?" It is amazing that how my ex-colleagues, from the law firm where I worked before the pizzeria, are fascinated with your Neapolitan garage development! Constructing a practical workbench like yours will be my next project after the oven stand is done, if my landlord lets me remove the fence.

Dear Pulcinella, I value your observation, that pictures of pizzas do not unconceal the flavor and texture of the pizzas they depict. Although the pizza I baked in the Ferrara oven two days ago was not anything special, yet its flavor was way better than the pizzas I have baked at home in my modified gas oven—even though their pictures, previously posted in this thread, looked much better than the one baked in the Ferrara. Of course, in my opinion, presentation is significant, but the flavor and texture are the decisive factors. It is amazing what a Neapolitan oven can do. The Neapolitan oven is truly a realm of possibilities! One can formulate pizza doughs in so many different manners, and the faithful Neapolitan oven can breathe life into them. I wonder if a gas-fueled Neapolitan oven can equal a wood-fired Neapolitan oven in terms of flavor and texture. I tentatively doubt it.

Below is a picture of a pizza I hastily baked last night, using my homemade dough (the leftover from Reply #1443) and Bruno's Ferrara oven. (Thank you Bruno!) Good day, friends.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 03:00:26 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1451 on: April 27, 2012, 06:41:22 AM »
Omid...Love to see you back...miss your wisdom and knowledge...

RJelli :chef:

Thank you, sir!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline wheelman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 593
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1452 on: April 27, 2012, 09:31:17 AM »
Omid,
that pizza is the cover shot for the book of margarita!
bill

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1541
  • Age: 59
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1453 on: April 27, 2012, 09:43:30 AM »
omid, every pizza looked perfect. how is the label on the armenian water written? is there a way to establish the salt content per liter. i wish i could taste the difference between your dough and mr. peters dough. as every pizza in the above posts looks appetizing as can be. i am still searching for my ideal salt level in my dough. since it is the first thing you taste it needs balance.

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2510
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1454 on: April 27, 2012, 09:54:33 AM »
Omid - Here is a link to the stand layout I had the metalsmith work from. It is just rough measurements based on the Primavera 70 oven I have:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B80bg-ScTiggdXR3bFVaUUdaS0U

I would advise using thicker bar that what he used. 2 inches or more.

John
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 02:48:33 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8402
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1455 on: April 27, 2012, 10:09:15 AM »
I can always come here for some eye candy!
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1456 on: April 28, 2012, 03:04:35 AM »
Omid,
that pizza is the cover shot for the book of margarita!
bill

Omid - Here is a link to the stand layout I had the metalsmith work from. It is just rough measurements based on the Primavera 70 oven I have:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B80bg-ScTiggdXR3bFVaUUdaS0U

I would advise using thicker bar that what he used. 2 inches or more.

John

I can always come here for some eye candy!

Thank you, friends!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1457 on: April 28, 2012, 05:18:48 AM »
omid, every pizza looked perfect. how is the label on the armenian water written? is there a way to establish the salt content per liter. i wish i could taste the difference between your dough and mr. peters dough. as every pizza in the above posts looks appetizing as can be. i am still searching for my ideal salt level in my dough. since it is the first thing you taste it needs balance.

Dear Larry, thank you for your kind compliment! In regard to the Armenian bottled water, the brand of which I can not remember (it was a difficult Armenian name), I have already discarded the bottle in the recycle bin, which has already been picked up by the city. However, I do clearly remember the sodium content of the water, which was exactly 380.0 mg per serving (8 ounce). To put the sodium content of the water in perspective, please check out the following table, which compares the sodium contents of seven different bottled waters.

Acqua Panna       (natural spring water from Italy)         0.0 mg of sodium per serving (8 ounce)
Evian                 (natural spring water from France)      6.5 mg of sodium per serving (8 ounce)
San Pellegrino     (mineral water from Italy)                10.0 mg of sodium per serving (8 ounce)
Gerolsteiner        (mineral water from Germany)          30.0 mg of sodium per serving (8 ounce)
Borjomi              (mineral water from Georgia)          360.0 mg of sodium per serving (8 ounce)
Armenian water   (non-carbonated mineral water)       380.0 mg of sodium per serving (8 ounce)
Svalyava            (mineral water from Ukraine)          410.0 mg of sodium per serving (10 ounce)

Of course, the above table does not mention anything in respect to the water's other mineral contents, such as calcium, magnesium, chloride, potassium, sulfate, and other minerals. Have a great day!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 05:22:29 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1550
  • Location: Boston
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1458 on: April 28, 2012, 10:45:58 AM »

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • The pizza you craft reflects your character!
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1459 on: April 28, 2012, 06:10:47 PM »
Was this the water http://www.jermuk.am/hayq.asp?


Dear BrickStone, Jermuk was not the water. I tried to identify the Armenian water at http://www.mineralwaters.org (http://www.mineralwaters.org/index.php?func=country&parval=4), but it was not listed therein. The water was recommended to me by an Armenian baker at Paradise Pastry (http://www.paradisepastry.com/) in Glendale, California. And, I purchased the water from an Armenian food market (Pacific Food Mart) in Glendale. I tried calling the place to get the name of the water, but the gentlemen who answered the phone could not speak English well enough to understand me, and I finally gave up. I always look forward to visiting Glendale or, as they call it, "Armeniadale". The small city alone has the best Armenian bakeries (more than 25 of them ), restaurants (more than 40 of them), and food markets and delis (more than 50) in the United States. Armenians really know good food :chef: and how to party >:D. Good day!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


 



pizzapan