Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 344550 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1800 on: November 27, 2012, 02:03:10 AM »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline p.elkjaer

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1801 on: November 28, 2012, 01:54:45 PM »
Thanks, these pictures are gorgeous, I'm hungry now  !

I've used it, but not the pizzeria so I can't compare them.
What is that? (The little round indoor pizza baker i assume)??
Any link for more info? Its too cold here in Denmark to fire up the wfo :-)

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1802 on: November 28, 2012, 02:03:57 PM »
What is that? (The little round indoor pizza baker i assume)??
Any link for more info? Its too cold here in Denmark to fire up the wfo :-)
Here's a different brand...I have an older discontinued Pizza Deni model...she gets HOT man!  :chef:
http://www.pizzaovenshop.com/deni-home-counter-top-pizza-oven-2300-p7.html
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1803 on: November 28, 2012, 02:18:09 PM »
What is that? (The little round indoor pizza baker i assume)??
Any link for more info? Its too cold here in Denmark to fire up the wfo :-)


That is a G3 Ferrari pizza oven.

http://www.g3ferrari.com/en/risultati.asp?famiglia=24&categoria=13
Pizza is not bread.

Offline p.elkjaer

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1804 on: November 28, 2012, 02:34:01 PM »
Looks fun both of them  :D

Are they any good/worth the cost compared to kitchen oven+stone? Top heat must be an issue. Who wants to eat "ok" pizzas when one can make very good (in the summertime)  :P

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1805 on: November 28, 2012, 02:36:58 PM »
Looks fun both of them  :D

Are they any good/worth the cost compared to kitchen oven+stone? Top heat must be an issue. Who wants to eat "ok" pizzas when one can make very good (in the summertime)  :P


I don't know about straight out of the box, but here is a modified one that bakes a nice looking pie: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19732.0
Pizza is not bread.

Offline p.elkjaer

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1806 on: November 28, 2012, 02:55:14 PM »
I don't know about straight out of the box, but here is a modified one that bakes a nice looking pie: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19732.0
wow - impressing !!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1807 on: January 07, 2013, 10:50:31 AM »
Good morning! Below are the results of six of my experiments trying to replicate Da Michele dough and pizza. So far, every experiment has failed; nonetheless, I believe, or I hope, I am on the right track. As seen in the pictures below, I did not put much efforts in arranging the toppings properly. At this point, my main focus has been solely on achieving the right rheological qualities of the doughs and the right attributes of the baked doughs in terms of texture, taste, and presentation. All the pizzas were baked in the Stefano Ferrara oven at Pizzeria Bruno. Thanks to Peter (the owner) of Bruno! All my doughs were prepared at home sometime by hand and sometimes by using my Santos fork mixer.

In all the experiments, I used over 20 hours of fermentation, conducted fully at room temperature. Absolutely no cooler, refrigeration, or marble chamber. Indubitably, Da Michele's dough is of high hydration. So far, I have been using 64 to 64.5% hydration. My experiments and careful observations compel me to believe that Da Michele employs a hydration level in excess of 64.5% (at least during winter), which will be the focus of my experiments this week. Good day!

Omid
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 07:45:53 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1809 on: January 07, 2013, 10:54:04 AM »
With failures like those, who needs success?  :-D
Pizza is not bread.


Offline Serpentelli

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1810 on: January 07, 2013, 11:20:05 AM »
My whole life is a failure, if that's how you are defining failure! ::)
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Online scott123

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1811 on: January 07, 2013, 11:22:56 AM »
Indubitably, Da Michele's dough is of high hydration. So far, I have been using 64 to 64.5% hydration. My experiments and careful observations compel me to believe that Da Michele employs a hydration level in excess of 64.5% (at least during winter), which will be the focus of my experiments this week.

Are you certain of this?  It's been a while since I've thought about reverse engineering Da Michele's dough, but I distinctly recall their dough balls being relatively tightly arranged in dough trays without any touching and involving very little spreading. Obviously, one can develop the gluten to prevent doughs with elevated hydrations from spreading, but, I think, without a late stretch and fold or re-ball a 64.5% hydration dough will generally spread a bit more than the balls in the photos I've seen.

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1812 on: January 07, 2013, 11:53:13 AM »
Yours look more appetizing to me. Better cornicone.....better leoparding. Please mail all of your failures to me. I will pay for shipping.

I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1813 on: January 07, 2013, 03:21:30 PM »
I have had a da Michele pie and it tastes a lot better than it looks. That being said I would love a Omid made pie

Online shuboyje

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1814 on: January 07, 2013, 05:38:33 PM »
Omid,

What was wrong with fail #4?  As someone who also aspires to produce pies like da michele that looks pretty darn close to me.  A fairly flat rim, nice small leoparding that goes all the way to the tomato, no white halo.  Texture off?
-Jeff

Offline fornographer

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1815 on: January 07, 2013, 07:17:25 PM »
What does a Da Michele pie taste like?

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1816 on: January 07, 2013, 07:37:56 PM »
With failures like those, who needs success?  :-D

My whole life is a failure, if that's how you are defining failure! ::)

Dear friends, I sincerely thank you for your words of encouragement. The principal reasons that I construed my attempts as "failures" in replicating Da Michele dough and pizza are because none of my doughs seemed to have the rheological properties of Da Michele dough (which I have touched and felt), and none of my baked pizzas had the gastronomical qualities in terms of texture and flavor. During my nine-month stay in Naples in 1984 and during my subsequent trips to Naples, I had the pleasure of enjoying Da Michele pizzas many times. Hence, I would hope that I am more than familiar with the attributes that essentially characterize Da Michele pizzas. So far, I have been unable to match the same attributes in my experiments; however, I think, if I am not mistaken, that I have come close. I will post here my future results. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1817 on: January 07, 2013, 09:24:44 PM »
Are you certain of this?  It's been a while since I've thought about reverse engineering Da Michele's dough, but I distinctly recall their dough balls being relatively tightly arranged in dough trays without any touching and involving very little spreading. Obviously, one can develop the gluten to prevent doughs with elevated hydrations from spreading, but, I think, without a late stretch and fold or re-ball a 64.5% hydration dough will generally spread a bit more than the balls in the photos I've seen.


Dear Scott, in regard to your statement, i.e., "I distinctly recall their [Da Michele's] dough balls being relatively tightly arranged in dough trays without any touching and involving very little spreading", I would like to post the picture, attached hereunder, which is, perchance, one of the best pictures of Da Michele dough balls available on the net. (The picture is by Pizza Pilgrims, https://www.facebook.com/pizzapilgrims) Actually, I have personally witnessed their dough balls more dispersed than exhibited in the picture below. On the contrary, I have also personally witnessed their dough balls in a stiffer condition, in terms of physical constitution of each dough ball, than shown below. (Naturally, the fluid state of their dough balls change through the passage of time.) Nonetheless, to the best of my memory, they always had the same arrangement of 3 by 4 balls per tray. If you are aware of other informative pictures of Da Michele dough balls, please share them with us. I would really appreciate it.

It appears to me that Da Michele does things differently in comparison to other pizzerias in Naples. I believe, if my beliefs are not illusory, that certain details of their dough-making process can open up new doors, new possibilities. Through my own failed experiments throughout the course of the last 12 months, I have grown to appreciate, more than ever, the level of their apparent dough-making skills, which I have been trying hard to develop. In my estimation, their dough is not easy to accomplish. Per Rick Steves' Da Michele video (
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZoruOm3_5w" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZoruOm3_5w</a>
):

"They [Da Michele] brag that it takes several years of practice to get the dough just right."

So true if one is a perfectionist! I wished I had more time to elaborate on my Da Michele experiments right now. After I am done with my experiments (whether I succeed or fail to any degree) and when I have the time and patience, I intend to do a post on my findings. Good night!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Online scott123

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1818 on: January 07, 2013, 10:39:31 PM »
Omid, I'm going to need some time to find that picture. It was from last year I think, around the time of the video.  The dough balls did not look like that, at all.  That is some serious spreading there.  The dough in that photo could easily be a 64.5% hydration dough.  But the dough in the photo I'm going to track down... I don't know  ;D

As soon as I have something, I'll post a link.

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1819 on: January 07, 2013, 10:55:15 PM »
At 8:36 in the video you can see their dough balls are spread out like the picture Omid posted. Also at 3:40 you can see how fluid their dough is before getting ready to ball.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pxmIFz5914" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pxmIFz5914</a>


 

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