Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 396419 times)

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Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1880 on: January 30, 2013, 06:05:48 PM »
Hi Omid,

Here, another interesing topic about the uses of oak wood in Da Michele pizzeria.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1881 on: January 30, 2013, 06:16:10 PM »
Regarding oak in that linked thread, I can probably say with certainty that the compounds in wood linked to scent and flavor are non-existent at Neapolitan oven temps. I can see the romanticism about using a certain wood over another. And some species burn better than others.

John

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1882 on: January 31, 2013, 06:43:07 PM »
Dear Sub, I thank you for the link. Please, feel free to post any other Da-Michele-related links. Good day!

Omid

Hi Omid,

Here, another interesing topic about the uses of oak wood in Da Michele pizzeria.
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1883 on: February 02, 2013, 12:13:46 PM »
You're welcome Omid !

If you want more pictures of the restaurant, look at trip advisor websites, users post their reviews with photos. . .  :P  

or on Flickr






« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 02:24:38 PM by sub »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1884 on: February 03, 2013, 09:16:37 AM »
Thank you for posting those pictures. It shows something I have noticed for quite some time - there is a huge variance in the look, size, thickness, and topping proportion at Da Michele. Now I perfectly understand why this is happening. The most interesting to me is the difference in leoparding. I would have thought that would have consistency to some degree. But I am assuming that the simple fact of prepping dough for throngs of people produces various levels of fermentation.

So which one is the real Da Michele - as in if you ask the owner what the best example of the pie should be? Maybe the answer is all of them. It is the whim of the yeast and the kiss if the oven!

John
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:38:36 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1885 on: February 03, 2013, 09:30:39 AM »
The variation in leoparding doesn't surprise me at all. There are far too many variables - as you note, it is the whim of the yeast and the kiss if the oven!

What I find surprising is the variation in cheese. The only explanation for that is they don't care.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1886 on: February 03, 2013, 09:35:59 AM »
Thank you for posting those pictures. It shows something I have noticed for quite some time - there is a huge variance in the look, size, thickness, and topping proportion at Da Michele.

Yes and I only posted the better ones !

« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:40:39 AM by sub »

Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1887 on: February 03, 2013, 09:36:47 AM »
What I find surprising is the variation in cheese. The only explanation for that is they don't care.

You can order a margharita Doppia (double) mozzarella Craig,
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:40:59 AM by sub »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1888 on: February 03, 2013, 10:19:26 AM »
You can order a margharita Doppia (double) mozzarella Craig,

Apparently Margherita Met as well  :-D
Pizza is not bread.

scott123

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1889 on: February 03, 2013, 10:41:19 AM »
What I find surprising is the variation in cheese. The only explanation for that is they don't care.

Considering that cheese is their most expensive ingredient by a large factor, I think they care a great deal. I've never met a pizza guy that wasn't acutely aware of the quantities of cheese he was using.

While we're on the topic of cheese, the water from the cheese seems pretty extreme in some of those shots.  I'm sure that there's a strong cultural preference towards wetter pies in general, but, I have a hard time picturing a Neapolitan regular reaching for one of these pies if a pizza with Craig's cheese was next to it.

I'm wondering how much of it is a cultural preference or if it's, like the variations in leoparding, another aspect of high volume pizza making- that they just can't painstakingly drain the mozz like a home baker might do.


Offline shuboyje

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1890 on: February 03, 2013, 11:30:28 AM »
I don't know Scott, their cheese is actually vacuum packed dry, and from looks is drier then anything I have ever used on a Neapolitan style pizza. 
-Jeff

scott123

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1891 on: February 03, 2013, 11:53:45 AM »
Jeff, while I wasn't aware of their vacuum pack drying technique, I still feel pretty strongly that I'm seeing water. At first I thought it was the tomatoes- the one marinara looks especially pale, but I'm seeing pools of water around the cheese.

Below are shots of Da Michele's cheese and Craig's. Yes, Craig's is much more professionally shot and the chili's go a long way aesthetically, but, even taking those into account, there's no competition, in my mind.  Craig's cheese blows Da Michele's away.

At least, from the perspective of this potentially culturally biased pizza consumer  ;D If this is just an Italian thing, then so be it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 11:57:31 AM by scott123 »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1892 on: February 03, 2013, 12:33:48 PM »
Jeff, while I wasn't aware of their vacuum pack drying technique, I still feel pretty strongly that I'm seeing water. At first I thought it was the tomatoes- the one marinara looks especially pale, but I'm seeing pools of water around the cheese.

I think Scott it right. On some of the pies with more cheese, it seems pretty clear to be some water from the cheese on the surface of the pie. It has that milky look.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1893 on: February 03, 2013, 01:20:25 PM »
I'm wondering how much of it is a cultural preference or if it's, like the variations in leoparding, another aspect of high volume pizza making- that they just can't painstakingly drain the mozz like a home baker might do.

I agree there is moisture from the cheese, my only contention was with this point.  From what I've seen of their cheese I don't see anything that looks like it could be drained.  It's dry. 

I know Larry(thezaman) commented recently that in his opinion the only place the better american examples of Neapolitan pizza where not up to par with the stuff he had in Naples was the cheese.  Coupling that with the fact our fior di latte is said to be an entirely different style then theirs leads me to wonder if this has more to do with the way the cheese itself melts and not moisture content in the pre bake cheese.
-Jeff

scott123

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1894 on: February 03, 2013, 01:26:07 PM »
Jeff, so Larry feels that domestic Neapolitan pizzeria cheese isn't on par with the cheese in Naples?

Edit: I misunderstood your 'looks drier'  as 'looking drier on the pizza,' but I can now see that you were talking about it looking drier pre-bake. My bad.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:55:11 PM by scott123 »

Offline shuboyje

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1895 on: February 03, 2013, 03:33:38 PM »
I may have attributed that claim to the wrong person, I could have sworn it was Larry but I can't seem to find it now going through his posts.  I'll have to dig a bit more.
-Jeff

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1896 on: February 03, 2013, 03:39:18 PM »
I may have attributed that claim to the wrong person, I could have sworn it was Larry but I can't seem to find it now going through his posts.  I'll have to dig a bit more.

Larry mentioned the exact same thing to me in a pm.  I'm sure he will speak up shortly.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1897 on: February 03, 2013, 04:05:07 PM »
This is a recent video of a da Michele pizza and at some point during the video, the lady said they make around 3,000 pizzas a day (according to locals).  I'm not even sure how that is possible with only 1 oven but, if that is true, there is no way they can spend time draining the cheese, etc.  Their main focus would be to just put out as much pizzas as they can and keep the quality to some acceptable level.  Consistency would be their number one enemy at that volume. 



Also, if you notice, the bottom looks charred with yellowish color from the burnt flour. 


« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 04:40:16 PM by Steve »

Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1898 on: February 03, 2013, 04:17:02 PM »
On the menu:

Ingredients: four (type 00) of tender grain, not concentrated San Marzano tomatoes peels OGM free, fior of latte (cheese) from Agerola (Italy), sunflower oil, water of Naples, sea salt, basil, oregano, and garlic.

So no yeast ?  :P

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1899 on: February 03, 2013, 04:18:00 PM »
This is a recent video of a da Michele pizza and at some point during the video, the lady said they make around 3,000 pizzas a day (according to locals).  I'm not even sure how that is possible with only 1 oven

3000/day =  5 pies every minute for 10 hours straight with no breaks or slowdowns whatsoever. It's also 18 bags of flour/day (250g ball, 64%HR). 1,650lbs dough/day.

I'm not believing it.
Pizza is not bread.