Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 483247 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2050 on: April 18, 2013, 04:54:10 AM »
Are you fermenting your dough further along than you have previously? Or do they only look like that because of how you stacked them in the box?

Chau

Dear Chau, all the dough balls above, in Reply #2045, were fermented for about 8 hours, after they underwent about 19 hours of mass fermentation. It is said that dough balls rise better when they are closely packed together. Naturally, when dough balls are closely juxtaposed with one another in a dough tray, they won't be able to spread like a pancake batter. Have a great day!

Omid 
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2051 on: April 18, 2013, 04:54:26 AM »
Last night, I baked some pizzas, using my Forno Piccolo. My unconventional dough formula contained:

Caputo '00' Pizzeria Flour (Datum Point)
Water: 65.5%
Sea Salt: 2.8%
Old Dough (developed under pressure, akin to a legato, inside an imperfect vacuum): 3%
Fresh Yeast: 0.03%

Initial Fermentation: 12 hours at room temperature (71-74F)
Final Fermentation: 13.5 hours at room temperature (69-72F)

Below are a couple of the pizzas that I baked. Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2052 on: April 18, 2013, 05:42:34 PM »
Omid, I find it ludicrous the comment Slice member CONAGLIO wrote about you. In case you haven't seen it


"Omid's endearingly naive pseudo-science and cringe-worthy gobbledigook pizza mysticism passed of as "philosophy" is always a hoot."

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/06/daily-slice-purple-pig-from-the-rolling-stonebaker-beverly-shores-indiana.html

This philistine has no idea what he's talking about  ??? . .. your pizzas speak for themselves.

Offline mkevenson

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2053 on: April 18, 2013, 06:26:07 PM »
Pulcinella,  Why even bring such garbage to this thread? There is a lot of mud slinging over there but it need not grace these pages.
Just my honest opinion.


Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2054 on: April 18, 2013, 08:19:25 PM »
Pulcinella,  Why even bring such garbage to this thread? There is a lot of mud slinging over there but it need not grace these pages.
Just my honest opinion.


Mark


Here here!

Pulcinadillo would not have repeated such drivel. He is far too classy a Dasypus!

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2055 on: April 18, 2013, 08:27:29 PM »
Omid, beautiful pizzas with the Forno Piccolo......

May I ask what the small cubed ingredient is on the first pizza?

Grazie.

Paolo

Offline csafranek

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2056 on: April 18, 2013, 10:40:44 PM »
Awesome as usual Omid! Love the pictures. Keep them coming!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2057 on: April 19, 2013, 07:12:25 PM »
Omid, I find it ludicrous the comment Slice member CONAGLIO wrote about you. In case you haven't seen it

"Omid's endearingly naive pseudo-science and cringe-worthy gobbledigook pizza mysticism passed of as "philosophy" is always a hoot."

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/06/daily-slice-purple-pig-from-the-rolling-stonebaker-beverly-shores-indiana.html

This philistine has no idea what he's talking about  ??? . .. your pizzas speak for themselves.

I wonder what psychological impulse or mentality motivates one to be predisposed to such a will to negate. The impulse of resentment, self-frustration, or else? I believe this is not his first time; he has done this before in this thread. What does it take for a man to discipline himself into wholenessto cultivate great character, to be reverent toward himself and others, to allow himself and others to have the dignity of their own being, to be tolerant not out of weakness but out of strength, to negate in order to create rather than just being destructive?

Rather than irrational outpouring of raw emotions, I prefer to see rationally structured, well-reasoned arguments or expositions that are sincere, meaningful, and relevant to the issues at hand. It takes a perplexed mind to think that what I do here, either naively or wisely, is pure science or academic philosophy. What I do here is neither. Nonetheless, I do try to apply, however imperfectly, certain aspects of science (as a discipline which is generally interested in investigating "causal relations" in the realm of natural phenomena) and philosophy (which is principally "critical and reflective thinking") to various pizza issues in order to understand them. Otherwise, I am no pizzaiolo, no pizza consultant, and no erudite in the sphere of Neapolitan pizza. Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2058 on: April 19, 2013, 07:24:58 PM »
Omid, beautiful pizzas with the Forno Piccolo......

May I ask what the small cubed ingredient is on the first pizza?

Grazie.

Dear Paolo, thank you! Those are "nashi pears", freshly cut. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashi_pear) The toppings on that pizza (which I believe was originated in Northern Italy) are: buffalo mozzarella, fresh oregano, nashi pears, gorgonzola, and olive oil. Have a great weekend!

Awesome as usual Omid! Love the pictures. Keep them coming!

Thank you, sir! 
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2059 on: May 08, 2013, 09:57:24 AM »
Good morning forum! Last night, I baked some pizzas, using my Forno Piccolo oven. The dough was fermented at room temperature for a total of 26 hours. Here are the pictures. Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2061 on: May 08, 2013, 09:58:05 AM »
Continued . . .
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2062 on: May 08, 2013, 10:45:15 AM »
Your beautiful pizzas and beautiful shots of your bake remind me that "I NEED MORE FLAME".

Part of my issue is that my neighbor usually runs the oven while I construct the pizzas. And he does not appreciate fully the need for constant rolling flame, since he is not on this forum and does no thinking about pizza except for on pizza nights.

Would you consider a move from "manning the oven" to "making the pizzas" a "demotion" in the paradigm of traditional NP makers? A serious question.

Thanks,

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2063 on: May 08, 2013, 01:20:55 PM »
Great stuff! I love the Shishito Peppers & Spanish Chorizo pie!
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline hotsawce

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2064 on: May 08, 2013, 02:34:04 PM »
Omid,

I really appreciate the fact you've tried some old dough in the recipe. I want to begin trying this as well. Is there any particular reason you choose to include a bit of fresh yeast as well in the formula, and increase the hydration a bit?

I also assume the old dough is a percentage of flour weight and not water? From what I've been researching, it seems those in "olden times" those in Naples used to use old dough as 3 to 5% of water weight.

I also have another question; is your old dough weighed in it's more "dried" out state to use as a percentage in the formula, or did you weigh it before it was wrapped and compressed? Also, how many days will that keep?

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2065 on: May 09, 2013, 07:45:46 PM »
Your beautiful pizzas and beautiful shots of your bake remind me that "I NEED MORE FLAME".

Part of my issue is that my neighbor usually runs the oven while I construct the pizzas. And he does not appreciate fully the need for constant rolling flame, since he is not on this forum and does no thinking about pizza except for on pizza nights.

Would you consider a move from "manning the oven" to "making the pizzas" a "demotion" in the paradigm of traditional NP makers? A serious question.

Thanks,

John K

Dear John, thank you! Please allow me to make some comments on "need more flame". Given the type of small, non-Neapolitan wood-fired oven I have at home, it generally needs, for obvious reasons, more flame during baking a Neapolitan-type pizza than the Ferrara oven that I work with at Bruno. That is basically a way of redeeming my non-Neapolitan oven. But, sometimes, there are exceptions. The Margherita I baked two nights ago (see the 1st picture below) was baked with very little flames (such as shown in the 2nd picture below); therefore, it came out a bit dry since it stayed longer inside the oven. However, sometimes the oven becomes so saturated with the heat energy that a little flame may suffice. The 3rd picture below is a case in point; the pizza was baked almost without flames and without stretching the bake time. Of course, the state of dough matters as well in all cases.

In some other thread, I noticed you were wondering that why I use the "steel guard" around the hot coals on my oven floor. The main reason is to keep the hot coals from expanding across the oven floor, reducing the bake space. In addition, the guard prevents the burning wood logs from falling on pizzas. Since my oven floor diameter is short (25 inches), I need to do this without resorting to removal of the hot coals. Perhaps, the last four pictures below (ordered chronologically) are self-explanatory. A lot of coals accumulate during each bake session. I should mention that my pizzas would bake better and faster without the guard.

In regard to your question, (i.e., "Would you consider a move from "manning the oven" to "making the pizzas" a "demotion" in the paradigm of traditional NP makers?"), it seems to me that being a banconista is a more prestigious position than being a fornaio in Naples. In my estimation, both positions are critical (while one might be more prestigious than the other), and each requires, as you know, its own necessary set of skills. Have a good day!

Omid
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 03:12:46 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2066 on: May 09, 2013, 07:46:19 PM »
Great stuff! I love the Shishito Peppers & Spanish Chorizo pie!

Dear Craig, thank you!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2067 on: May 10, 2013, 06:08:29 AM »
Omid,

I really appreciate the fact you've tried some old dough in the recipe. I want to begin trying this as well. Is there any particular reason you choose to include a bit of fresh yeast as well in the formula, and increase the hydration a bit?

I also assume the old dough is a percentage of flour weight and not water? From what I've been researching, it seems those in "olden times" those in Naples used to use old dough as 3 to 5% of water weight.

I also have another question; is your old dough weighed in it's more "dried" out state to use as a percentage in the formula, or did you weigh it before it was wrapped and compressed? Also, how many days will that keep?

Dear Hotsawce, I believe you're referring to the recipe I employed in my experiment in Reply #2051:

   (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg249168.html#msg249168)

   Caputo '00' Pizzeria Flour (Datum Point)
   Water: 65.5%
   Sea Salt: 2.8%
   Old Dough (developed under pressure, akin to a legato, inside an imperfect vacuum): 3%
   Fresh Yeast: 0.03%

You asked, "Is there any particular reason you choose to include a bit of fresh yeast as well in the formula, and increase the hydration a bit?" Briefly put, the reason I included fresh yeast in the formula is because my old dough, by design, did not have much leavening power. I used the old dough primarily for its acidifying power, which translates into dough strength, flavor, and texture. Furthermore, since acidification adds strength to the final dough, you are free to carefully increase the hydration in accordance with the percentage of the old dough, its acidification potency, and the level of strength and fluidity that you desire your final dough to possess when matured.

With regard to your next question ("I also assume the old dough is a percentage of flour weight and not water?"), I used the weight of flour as the datum point.

At last, you asked, "Is your old dough weighed in it's more "dried" out state to use as a percentage in the formula, or did you weigh it before it was wrapped and compressed?" The amount of old dough that I set aside to be pressurized was much more than I needed for the final dough. 3% of old dough is too little to prepare for a relatively small batch of final dough.

With regard to using old dough in preparing Neapolitan pizza dough, I think that it can yield satisfactory results; nonetheless, in my estimation, it can be a precarious enterprise depending on the zymological state of the old dough before incorporation, the percentage of the old dough incorporated in the final dough, the percentage of salt and hydration of the final dough, and other crucial factors. In my experience, there is a fine balance that needs to be maintained between all these factors; otherwise, the texture and flavor of the final product will be compromised to a lesser or greater degree. Have a great day!

Omid
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 06:12:52 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2068 on: May 10, 2013, 07:35:34 PM »
Omid, bellissime come al solito!  Bravo!
Paolo

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2069 on: May 10, 2013, 11:24:21 PM »
Omid,

Thank you for your insightful and thoughtful response. After reading, it appears that your ember shield functions more as a means to offer you as large and clean a cooking surface as possible, as opposed to an "aide" to reduce undesirable charring of the cornicione. I should have known better.

Thank you also for the words about the pizzaiolo and banconista. I learned something!

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline hotsawce

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2070 on: May 14, 2013, 03:31:15 PM »
Omid,

Thanks for the response. As always, reading your posts is like being involved in a masterclass.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2071 on: May 17, 2013, 03:44:23 AM »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2072 on: May 17, 2013, 12:39:28 PM »
Omid, visually speaking I am not sure you can improve upon your pizzas.  They are stunningly beautiful.  Is there anything left you would like to improve with your pizza or pizza making skills?

Offline Mmmph

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Sono venuto, ho visto, ho mangiato

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2074 on: May 17, 2013, 07:09:54 PM »
Mmm, Culatello!
Totally OT, but Mmm if you want your signature ti read in proper Italian it should say.......

"Sono Venuto, Ho visto, Ho Mangiato"

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Omid, keep the good stuff coming!..........
Paolo