Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 374767 times)

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Offline mkevenson

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2080 on: May 23, 2013, 07:44:38 PM »
Omid, the pies look nice. Different than your usual cheese placement.


"They were some of the worst pizzas I had ever made."

Funny how they can look so good and yet you critique them as above.

Of course until we improve the internet and add - taste o vision-, or- smell o vision-, we only have pics, and yours are always beautiful.

See you Wed, next.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles


Offline hotsawce

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2081 on: May 23, 2013, 09:42:17 PM »
Is it just me, or are your recent pies noticeably more spotted? Could this be because of the fairly old dough?

Offline Polo1523

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2082 on: May 23, 2013, 09:49:48 PM »
Hello omid i built what i think is a tuscan style wfo from scratch its large oven,  i dont use a torch,  only wood I've only baked 3 times in it,  it was finished a month ago,  the last time i heated the oven for 90 minutes only it was around 800 degrees but the floor was not consistent enough to keep the temp so i had to reheated with the coals i guees i need to wait longer to keep the temp consistent for longer periods here are some pics i've only cooked ny style pies but i have the intention to buy caputo and try neapolitan but first i need to control my oven.  Here are a couple of pics of my built and some of my first bake the last bake i did turned out better
Regards Leo.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2083 on: May 24, 2013, 07:29:37 AM »
Is it just me, or are your recent pies noticeably more spotted? Could this be because of the fairly old dough?

Dear Hotsawce, you asked, "Is it just me, or are your recent pies noticeably more spotted?" Indeed, my recent pizzas have been exhibiting, unfortunately, more charred blisters than usual. I believe this is mainly symptomatic of (1) the way I manage my Forno Piccolo oven and (2) the acidity level of my pizza dough. With respect to the former, first, I would like to invite your attention to Reply #2038, 2039, and 2045 in this thread:

Reply #2038: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg248959.html#msg248959
Reply #2039: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg248964.html#msg248964
Reply #2045: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg249076.html#msg249076

I have repeatedly baked the same type of pizza dough in both the Ferrara oven at Bruno Pizzeria and in my Forno Piccolo at home, and I have repeatedly noticed that the pizzas baked in the Piccolo were usually burdened more with charred blisters than the same baked in the Ferrara. At this point in time, my repeated experiments compel me to hypothesize that this phenomenon is partly due to the more direct onslaught of heat energy in the Piccolo since it is a much smaller oven than the Ferrara and because I run the Piccolo really hot in order to compensate for the oven's non-Neapolitan dome height and door size. If I run the oven dome and walls cooler, the blisters will reduce in number and size, but the bake time will be adversely effected. I think I have a solution to this problem, but I have not tried it yet.

With respect to the acidity level of dough, my repeated experiments (which are exclusive of cold-fermented doughs) have shown me, if I am not mistaken, that the acidity level of pizza dough is correlated with the appearance of charred blisters. (Please, keep in mind that by "correlation" I do not mean "causation".) To be more particular, I assert or hypothesize that the higher the level of acidity, the more will be the quantity of the blisters and the larger their size under the right oven conditions. Also, it is said that the generation of organic acids improves the flavor and dough strength when dough is properly developed and under the right conditions. Moreover, it is generally believed that long initial fermentation in bulk, as opposed to short initial fermentation, contributes to faster acidification of dough.

Using old dough seems to be one way of increasing the level of acidity in the final dough. Recently, I have been doing a lot of experiments with old dough (which I, for certain reasons, pressurize, akin to a legato, in a partial vacuum for few hours after the initial fermentation is over) solely for the sake of dough strength and flavor—not for the sake of the blisters.

In conclusion, I tentatively think that the excessive appearance of the blisters on my recent pizzas is due to the way I managed my Forno Piccolo oven and the acidity level of my doughs, which underwent long initial fermentation and contained a percentage of old dough. After all said and done, it appears to me that using the "straight dough" method is the safest course of action; however, sometimes risky actions can bear exceptional results when calculatedly done. Good day!

Omid
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 03:48:28 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline bjshaver

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2084 on: May 24, 2013, 07:49:50 AM »
Omid,

Thank you for all of your impressive contributions in this thread!

Quote
Dear Polo, my oven is a Forno Piccolo by Forno Classico. It is a small oven with 25 inches of the internal floor diameter. In order not to bother my neighbors with the startup smoke/fume, I heat up my oven in two stages:

1. I cover the oven floor with two round aluminum plates. (See the 1st picture below.) Next, I put my torch through a single-slitted oven door (which I built out of aluminum plate), and I torch the dome until the oven walls reach 900°F. (See the 2nd and 3rd pictures below.) This takes about 4 hours: 2 hours torching the center of the dome, 1 hour the right side of the dome, and 1 hour the left side of the dome. (Please beware that if the oven is not torched properly, it may result in damages to your oven.)

2. I remove the torch and the left aluminum plate, put the steel guard in place, and, at last, place the wood logs inside the space defined by the steel guard. (See the 4th and 5th pictures below.) Once the logs start burning, there is virtually no smoke at all. For about 30 minutes, I keep feeding the oven with wood logs until the entire space defined by the steel guard is filled halfway with hot coals. (In my opinion, the proper formation of bed of hot coals is important since it vitalizes my oven floor. In addition, it helps to quickly ignite the new wood logs placed inside the oven.) At last, I remove the right aluminum plate about 10 minutes before I start baking.

What type of wood-fired oven do you have? The aforementioned procedure may not effectively work in other types of ovens. Good day!

Omid


Wow...that seems like a lot of work and unique modification to make the oven meet your needs...did you anticipate this level of needed modification when you purchased this oven, and would you buy this oven again knowing what you do now?

Thanks. 

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2085 on: May 25, 2013, 06:21:48 PM »
Omid,

Thank you for all of your impressive contributions in this thread!
 
Wow...that seems like a lot of work and unique modification to make the oven meet your needs...did you anticipate this level of needed modification when you purchased this oven, and would you buy this oven again knowing what you do now?

Thanks.

Dear Bjshaver, you're welcome! In regard to the oven procedure I described in Reply #2078 above, it is not really a lot of work for me at all. Again, my main objective by torching the oven is to prevent the startup smoke, of which my neighbors had complained many times. That is a perfect solution to keep them happy.

Yes, I had somewhat anticipated making some extraneous modifications due to the extant circumstances at the time, and I would buy the same oven again in future if there will be no change of circumstances. If one day I buy my own house with a good size backyard, then I would definitely choose a different oven. For now, my Forno Piccolo fits my present needs and limitations. Fortunately, I have the Stefano Ferrara oven at Pizzeria Bruno, where I work, to play with. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2086 on: May 29, 2013, 05:41:06 PM »
Last night, I baked some pizzas in my Forno Piccolo, using a straight dough (61.5% hydration) which fermented (using fresh yeast) for a total of 27.5 hours at controlled room temperature (68-74°F). Below are pictures of a couple of the pizzas. Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2087 on: May 29, 2013, 05:41:18 PM »
Continued . . .
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2088 on: May 29, 2013, 11:29:37 PM »
Beautiful artwork Omid, it would be great to meet such a person someday!  :chef:
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2089 on: May 30, 2013, 04:07:36 AM »
Beautiful artwork Omid, it would be great to meet such a person someday!  :chef:

Dear Jet, thank you. I'd be delighted to meet you as well. I think that "someday" is far nearer than farther!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2090 on: May 30, 2013, 04:07:59 AM »
See you Wed, next.

Mark

Dear Mark, it was a pleasure to meet you and your wife (and your puppies) at Bruno. Have a safe trip back home. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline mkevenson

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2091 on: May 30, 2013, 12:48:22 PM »
Omid, it was such a pleasure to meet you and Peter and the staff at Bruno's. I really appreciate the time that you were able to take with me in discussing pizza and the oven. We had a delightful time and our trip to San Diego was fulfilled. Delicious pie!!!!!!!!!!


Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2092 on: May 30, 2013, 02:14:25 PM »
Omid, it was such a pleasure to meet you and Peter and the staff at Bruno's. I really appreciate the time that you were able to take with me in discussing pizza and the oven. We had a delightful time and our trip to San Diego was fulfilled. Delicious pie!!!!!!!!!!


Mark

Mark,

Is that an Omid sighting in that picture??!!  :)

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline mkevenson

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2093 on: May 31, 2013, 04:59:32 PM »
Mark,

Is that an Omid sighting in that picture??!!  :)

John K
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline mkevenson

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2094 on: May 31, 2013, 05:01:24 PM »
Mark,

Is that an Omid sighting in that picture??!!  :)

John K

I have not been authorized to identify the pizzaiolo in that pic. Perhaps the true identity will be revealed?

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2095 on: May 31, 2013, 07:06:53 PM »
I have not been authorized to identify the pizzaiolo in that pic. Perhaps the true identity will be revealed?

Mark

There is no need for authorization, dear friend . . . The person in the picture is me, but I am definitely NOT, as you put it, a "pizzaiolo"—as I have not earned the title yet. To be worthy of it takes a lot more hard-work, diligence, and commitment than I thought. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2096 on: May 31, 2013, 10:25:39 PM »


Mark,

That's what I hoped you would say! :)

John K
There is no need for authorization, dear friend . . . The person in the picture is me, but I am definitely NOT, as you put it, a "pizzaiolo"—as I have not earned the title yet. To be worthy of it takes a lot more hard-work, diligence, and commitment than I thought. Good day!

Omid

Omid,

Putting a face to the name in no way detracts from the mystique! In fact I find it even more fascinating that a man of your apparently young age could be so far advanced in in his craft. Although you always express a sincere amount of humility in your posts (100% unfounded) I sincerely believe that you should consider taking on the role of an instructor for those of us searching for excellent teachers!

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline mkevenson

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2097 on: June 01, 2013, 12:36:52 AM »
I have previously seen a pic of Omid. Read every page of his thread and you will find it. Oh, including references.


Mark
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Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2098 on: June 01, 2013, 05:59:24 AM »
Hi Omid,

I wonder, Craig stick to his recipe with the Caputo pizzeria, why do you always change yours ?

Are you not happy with the current result of your pizza (texture, taste...) or are you simply trying to learn the craft by practicing different dough recipe ?

PS

Is it possible on your next batch to take a picture of the crumb of a slice please

Thanks

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2099 on: June 01, 2013, 06:02:10 PM »
Hi Omid,

I wonder, Craig stick to his recipe with the Caputo pizzeria, why do you always change yours ?

Are you not happy with the current result of your pizza (texture, taste...) or are you simply trying to learn the craft by practicing different dough recipe ?

PS

Is it possible on your next batch to take a picture of the crumb of a slice please

Thanks

Dear Sub, as a part of my education, I experiment with different dough recipes and procedures (some of which are incommensurate with the Neapolitan tradition) purely for the sake of learning from my experiences. As John Locke (a British empiricist philosopher, who had an influence on formation of the scientific method) stated, "The human mind is a sort of blank tablet on which experience writes."

Ideally, I would like to be flexible and adaptable enough so that my acquired set of skills would not be rendered obsolete when I find myself in a new environment or kitchen. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/