Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 450539 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2175 on: September 02, 2013, 07:01:58 PM »
Below are some videos of pizzaioli napolitani that you might find interesting. I find it interesting to see the diversity of their workflows from initiation to completion (using different flours, techniques, dough manipulation, etc.). Good day! 

Salvatore Salvo


Gino Sorbillo


Di Matteo


Franco Pepe


Enzo Coccia


Pasqualino Rossi


Armando Messina Cacialli & Felice Messina


La Stesura


Intro
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline foodimp

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2176 on: September 04, 2013, 05:02:40 AM »
Omid, all,

Just a quick note to clarify a few of the questions raised below with regard to the Caputo Spec sheets and bag designs.  After having worked with Caputo for the past 15+ years I can attest to their continuous efforts to search for the best varieties of wheat available on the worldwide market in order to deliver the characteristics which are sought in the finished product (pizza dough, pasta dough, pastry dough, etc).  Because this means sourcing product from many different countries(something few others can do well) they are not static in their production specifications but instead modify these specs over time in function of the wheat characteristics with which they are dealing at that time.  The most recent Caputo Spec sheets from 2013 are accurate and updated.  One thing bears mentioning and that is that numbers in no way tell the entire story.  Caputo measures wheat on 4 important criteria and if all 4 of these important characteristics are not inherent in the wheat, they will not use it.  Therefore it is not so simple to look at W or Protein or other such factors alone.  Many can produce wheat with similar numbers, but I have yet to find one that produces the same quality.  many are good painters and can make a great picture, but the proof is in the dough in this case. With regard to bags and style, there are current updates to the logo and look to keep it fresh and current from time to time, as with all brands.
Keep up all the passion and good will towards Pizza Napoletana and best to all of you, who are the ones spreading the education in the industry whether you know it or not.
Fred Mortati
Orlando Food Sales, NJ

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2177 on: September 04, 2013, 05:53:52 AM »
. . . Because this means sourcing product from many different countries (something few others can do well) they are not static in their production specifications but instead modify these specs over time in function of the wheat characteristics with which they are dealing at that time.  The most recent Caputo Spec sheets from 2013 are accurate and updated. . . .

Fred Mortati
Orlando Food Sales, NJ

Mr. Mortati, I sincerely thank you for your consideration in addressing the issue of the discrepancies as referenced above in Reply #2169 above. Your explanation makes complete sense. I can imagine that it is a challenge for Caputo to keep pace with the quality of the grains they receive from around the world, where many factors (such as the seasonal and atmospheric conditions on which farmers do not have much control) impact the quality of the wheat. Again, I thank you for your time and care. Have a great day!

Regards,
Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline PeterM

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2
  • Location: southern Cal
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2178 on: September 04, 2013, 12:53:26 PM »
Thanks Omid, I have since removed the breaker bar. If your concern is with respect to cleaning, it's a breeze to clean & disinfect.

Matt

Matthew - I'm interested in installing a breaker bar on my SP5, but I see you decided to remove yours.  Would you mind providing your thoughts as to whether I'd be wasting my time and why you made the decision to remove it.  Also, if you have any specifications for the bar in terms of size, shape, how you mounted it, and whether it is adjustable, I'd appreciate the info.
Thanks,
PM

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23193
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2179 on: September 05, 2013, 01:37:34 PM »
Today I started a new thread on the Dough Ingredients board, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27399.msg277377.html#msg277377, to inform our members that Caputo now has a U.S. website at http://caputoflour.com/, with specs for all of their products but for the Crescito.

Peter

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2180 on: September 09, 2013, 03:07:46 AM »
.

Dear Craig, your friend came to Bruno Pizzeria yesterday. Nice gentleman! The staff and I treated him with utmost hospitality. He will come back again this Wednesday. We took the pictures, below, for you. I hope to see you here sometime soon. Have a great day!

Regards,
Omid
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 03:22:45 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2181 on: September 09, 2013, 04:03:37 AM »
Here is more pictures of Bruno pizzas baked yesterday. Good day!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 04:26:52 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15424
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2182 on: September 09, 2013, 09:36:25 AM »
Dear Craig, your friend came to Bruno Pizzeria yesterday. Nice gentleman! The staff and I treated him with utmost hospitality. He will come back again this Wednesday. We took the pictures, below, for you. I hope to see you here sometime soon. Have a great day!

Regards,
Omid

Thank you so much for your hospitality. Will he ever want to eat my pizza again?
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline PetersPizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 85
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Oregon
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2183 on: September 11, 2013, 03:15:57 AM »
I am surprised! The one Margherita I eat there (Brixton) was not acidity at all.
But all of my tries with normal leaven were. Therefore I'm searching for that possibility with natural leaven but without sourness.

(I know this is a bit late, probably best to pm n4g also)
I've been to Franco Manca  four times, twice in Brixton last December and twice this week in Clapham. So far, only last nights pizza was considerably sour. Since I'll be staying and baking bread in London I asked the manager for a small amount of the ischia starter. He said that they didn't have any since the dough is produced in the morning at another location. I supesct this leads to some dough mangement issues especailly at the end of the night.

Instead I asked for a few dough balls to start my own culture, after a few feedings it is thriving.

Overall Franco manca pies are good, but I think they could use a bit more sauce and a wetter mozzealla. I miss the glorious fresh soupy center of the better pizzas I had in Naples last year. I suspect they keep them relatively dry, for the English palate.

I'll probably head to the Brixton location later today.

-Peter.


Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2184 on: September 13, 2013, 08:20:54 AM »
Yesterday, I watched a video about an acclaimed pizzaiolo baking Neapolitan pizzas in a Neapolitan oven. He claimed that doming a pizza during the bake process is for the sake of imparting smoky flavor to the finished product. The issue of "impartation of smoky flavor" periodically presents itself in this forum, and few members usually rise to the occasion by apprising the claimants that the compounds responsible for the smoky flavor are extinct at high temperatures.

According to the following Wikipedia article (the truth value of which needs to be substantiated):
Quote
The composition of smoke depends on the nature of the burning fuel and the conditions of combustion.

.

Hardwoods are made up mostly of three materials: cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin. Cellulose and hemicellulose are the basic structural material of the wood cells; lignin acts as a kind of cell-bonding glue. . . .

Cellulose and hemicellulose are aggregate sugar molecules; when burnt, they effectively caramelize, producing carbonyls, which provide most of the color components and sweet, flowery, and fruity aromas. Lignin, a highly complex arrangement of interlocked phenolic molecules, also produces a number of distinctive aromatic elements when burnt, including smoky, spicy, and pungent compounds such as guaiacol, phenol, and syringol, and sweeter scents such as the vanilla-scented vanillin and clove-like isoeugenol. Guaiacol is the phenolic compound most responsible for the "smoky" taste, while syringol is the primary contributor to smoky aroma. Wood also contains small quantities of proteins, which contribute roasted flavors. Many of the odor compounds in wood smoke, especially the phenolic compounds, are unstable, dissipating after a few weeks or months.

.

Since different species of trees have different ratios of components, various types of wood do impart a different flavor to food. Another important factor is the temperature at which the wood burns. High-temperature fires see the flavor molecules broken down further into unpleasant or flavorless compounds. The optimal conditions for smoke flavor are low, smoldering temperatures between 570 and 750F (299 and 399C). This is the temperature of the burning wood itself, not of the smoking environment, which uses much lower temperatures. Woods that are high in lignin content tend to burn hot; to keep them smoldering requires restricted oxygen supplies or a high moisture content. When smoking using wood chips or chunks, the combustion temperature is often raised by soaking the pieces in water before placing them on a fire.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_(cooking)

For what it is worth, yesterday I managed to capture some of the dark smoke that hovered near the dome of the Ferrara oven at Pizzeria Bruno. (See the first four pictures below, in which the dark smoke should be visible mostly near the right side of the dome.) At the time, the oven floor was about 900F and the dome about 1150F, and the oven had been running about 9 to 12 hours everyday, except Mondays when the pizzeria is closed. After I captured the smoke, I immediately took it near my nostrils. It did not smell pleasant at all; it smelled almost like the fume of a burning tire.

Whatever the case might be, the peculiarity of the structural design, material composition, and thermal dynamism of a wood-burning Neapolitan oven truly set in motion, within a short time and under high heat, the flavor compounds of the dough and toppings. The last picture, below, is a Bruno pizza I baked right after the experiment. Good day!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 06:10:00 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pulcinella

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 59
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2185 on: September 13, 2013, 08:36:15 AM »
Omid, then why should a pizzaiolo dome?

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2186 on: September 13, 2013, 08:50:59 AM »
Omid, then why should a pizzaiolo dome?

In my opinion, it is not necessarily a matter of "should", but other subjunctives, "may" or "might"! In other words, it is not an imperative.

In my assessment, having worked with a Neapolitan oven five days per week for the past 18 months, proper doming (which, in my experience, is not as effortless as it appears, and takes some artistry to master) is solely a distinct strategy or tactical gain in baking, not smoking, pizzas. Doming has several utilities. For instance, doming is often used as a catalyst, that is, to speed up the bake process when necessary. Sometimes, this utility simultaneously serves as a recovery mechanism to let the oven floor regain momentum. In principle, doming a Neapolitan pizza depends on three principal factors:

1. The state of dough,
2. The thermal state of oven, and
3. How the pizza bakes under the two aforementioned conditions

Beyond the three factors, proper timing, frequency, and altitude of doming are of essence. Also, maintaining a right distance to the fire during doming should be taken into account. In other words, doming needs to be executed with sensitivity and know-how lest one vitiate the delicate gastronomy of finished products. The ultimate objective is to achieve the gastronomical qualities (e.g., soft, non-desiccated base and cornicione) traditionally ascribed to Neapolitan pizza, whether or not one resorts to doming. Good day!

Omid
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 06:04:40 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3767
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2187 on: September 13, 2013, 10:40:35 AM »
Omid, black smoke has a terrible taste, it is full of unburnt particulates.  White smoke is OK though.

Offline Topanga Pies

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2188 on: September 25, 2013, 08:15:24 PM »
Was surprised to find  a Settobello in Marina Del Rey this morning ,in the same, rebuild mall that Antico used to be.
This was sitting in the window...
Hope to try the pizza soon!

Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 692
  • Location: Belgium
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2189 on: September 28, 2013, 01:30:30 PM »
Hi Omid,

I've got few links to share

ZINGARATA N. 1 - FOTO DA MICHELE






« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 07:10:33 AM by sub »

Offline Mangia Pizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 240
  • Location: MA
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2190 on: September 29, 2013, 06:13:38 PM »
Awesome links to the website and video!
Thanks.....
Paolo

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2191 on: October 08, 2013, 03:32:37 AM »
Was surprised to find  a Settobello in Marina Del Rey this morning ,in the same, rebuild mall that Antico used to be.
This was sitting in the window... Hope to try the pizza soon!

Hi Omid, I've got few links to share

ZINGARATA N. 1 - FOTO DA MICHELE



Dear Topanga and Sub, thank you for sharing the pictures and links.

Sub, I found the comments made by Don Luigi of Da Michele very informative. If you have any other interesting Da Michele (or Ciro Salvo) links/pictures, please do not hesitate to post them here. Good day!

Regards,
Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline sub

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 692
  • Location: Belgium
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2192 on: October 10, 2013, 01:52:59 PM »

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2193 on: October 25, 2013, 09:02:33 AM »
Yesterday, I baked some pizzas at home, using my Forno Piccolo wood-fired oven. My Caputo Pizzeria dough was hydrated at about 64%, and I used fresh yeast. The dough was fermented at room temperature (71-76F) for 14+6 hours. I always get very different bake results using my Forno Piccolo as opposed to the Ferrara oven at work. The more I use the Ferrara, the more I realize how difficult it is to use a small-sized wood-fired oven and to get satisfactory bake results. Nonetheless, I enjoy the challenge. Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2194 on: October 25, 2013, 09:02:56 AM »
Continued . . .
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1375
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2195 on: October 25, 2013, 09:03:23 AM »
Continued . . .
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Serpentelli

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1170
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
    • Bat Man vs. The Penguin
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2196 on: October 25, 2013, 09:35:35 AM »
Omid,

You've left very little out there --- only thing else I'd like to see details of is you removing the dough balls from the dough trays. Since the balls seem nice and "sticky" I'm sure that their removal requires a level of skill and particular technique that few possess! Your detailing that particular aspect of the process would be helpful.

Oh, sorry, BEAUTIFUL PIES Omid!!

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15424
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2197 on: October 25, 2013, 09:59:45 AM »
The pup and I have something in common.

I hadn't noticed before how much further I push the sauce out towards the edge of the pie. I'll have to go back and look at my old pictures; I think I used to leave a larger rim like yours. I love the look of your pies.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1376
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2198 on: October 25, 2013, 10:09:31 AM »
Beautiful pizzas, photos, and canine!  Thanks for posting! 

I'm wondering how you are able to get the pizza in the oven when it is hanging over the edges of the peel. 

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3045
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2199 on: October 25, 2013, 10:11:41 AM »

I hadn't noticed before how much further I push the sauce out towards the edge of the pie. I'll have to go back and look at my old pictures; I think I used to leave a larger rim like yours. I love the look of your pies.

Yeah, it's like painting a picture on a little bit larger canvas than you need. It really draws the eye to the center.
!Magnific Omid!
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends


 

pizzapan