Thanks. I agree with both of your observations about over fermentation and refrigeration. The first few times I tried making dough, I followed Jeff Varasano's recipe which calls for a cold rise in the refrigerator. I note that Jeff's recipe adds IDY and I did not. Without adding IDY, my dough would not rise in the refrigerator. So I tried the warm rise and my schedule was such that I could not bake until the dough had risen too long (over fermentation). Also, on my first few attempts, I probably over kneaded the dough in a KA mixer. I have read that over kneading with a mixer or bread machine is possible, but it is difficult to knead too long when kneading by hand. Since then, I have been more careful about kneading and rise time and I have had success. I am sure I have much to learn, but my last attempt produced some very nice pies. I used Ed Wood's pizza recipe which calls for about 500g flour, 175g culture from a "culture proof," 295g water, and 3/4 tsp salt (this will make about three 10-12 pies). I made the culture proof by allowing a jar of active culture to sit overnight at room temp. The next morning, I mixed the dough ingredients (except salt) and let it rest for 30 minutes at room temp (per the autolyse method). I then added the salt and kneaded with a KA mixer for about 10 minutes first at 2, then at 4 speed, gradually adding sufficient flour to get the proper consistency (not too sticky, not too dry). I then kneaded by hand until the dough passed the window pane test (another 10-15 minutes). I read that if the dough will not pass the window pane test, more hand kneading is required. After kneading, I let the dough rise at room temperature until doubled in volume (about 3-4 hours). I then punched the dough down and divided into three balls, hand kneading each ball slightly to achieve a smooth texture. I then let the dough rise at room temp for another 3-4 hours. I made pies and cooked on a preheated stone in a BGE at 750 deg. F for 2-3 minutes (cooking times vary and I checked the crust every minute or so until done). The flavor was very mild, but the texture of the crust was good. I need to experiment more, but I was pleased with this result.