Burnt Pizzas -why are people tolerant?

[andrewperetti]

I look on this forum from time to time, particularly in this section. What really disappoints is to see burnt pizzas being paraded as masterpieces? Of course some degree of char is desirable, but I'd say 50-60% of pizzas I see on here are excessively charred.

I know it's all a preference thing, but who actually likes a severely blackened pizza. Here's what I class as spot on

http://youngandfoodish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/rosso-pizza.jpg

[Jackie Tran]

It's all preferential.  Why ask why?    What is burnt to one man is beauty to another. 

[dellavecchia]

The picture you posted is from Rossopomodoro in London. Most of us are making pizza in our home and backyard, so showing us a professional pizza sets the standard above what we are doing - having fun. Please feel free to show us your own pizza creations as an example of what level of char you prefer.

And I cannot recall ever seeing someone proclaim their pizza as a "masterpiece" here.

John

[GlennC.]

Some of us who are truly novices at wood fired cooking and who bake only occasionally would be thrilled to get to the point of producing those "burnt" pies.

[pizzablogger]

It's all preferential.  Why ask why?    What is burnt to one man is beauty to another. 

Yup yup

[pizzablogger]

The picture you posted is from Rossopomodoro in London. Most of us are making pizza in our home and backyard, so showing us a professional pizza sets the standard above what we are doing...

I strongly disagree

Granted, a straight week working as a commercial operator and making hundreds, if not thousands of pizzas over that time may give more experience operating an oven than many here will get from a lifetime of making pizza at the level we do at home.

But that is also a somewhat mechanical endeavor (granted care and attention to detail are needed) by the time you open a pizzeria. However, there is not so much time for experimentation and pushing limits once a shop is opened and taking all of your time.

But before opening a pizzeria, the level of passion, quest for knowledge, open mindedness for experimentation, especially striving for dough qualities which are miles beyond ordinary pizza operators displayed by some of the members here, goes well beyond where many commercial operators aspire to get to.

I've been fortunate to talk to some pizza makers at wood fired joints and you may be surprised at how little some of them may know about the pizza making process when compared to some of the members here. They know the procedural process, the mechanics of it, down cold.....but the intuitive/artistic/whateeveryouwannacallit side that allows one to duck and move with unexpected changes a particular day may present....not so much in some cases.

John, on a good day...judging from how your pies work and the pursuit of quality you have been on, I'd be willing to wager a significant amount of money that if you entered one of your pizzas in a blind taste testing against other WFO establishments...even if that line-up included very well respected commerical establishments...your pizzas would more than merely "stand on their own".

 

[dellavecchia]

John, on a good day...judging from how your pies work and the pursuit of quality you have been on, I'd be willing to wager a significant amount of money that if you entered one of your pizzas in a blind taste testing against other WFO establishments...even if that line-up included very well respected commerical establishments...your pizzas would more than merely "stand on their own".
 

Thank you Kelly! Although when you start charging money for said pies, it a whole different ballgame - consistency with quality is hard to master.

John

[Jet_deck]

I still believe in the 80/20 rule.  20% of this forum could produce a better pizza than you would find in 80% of the worlds pizza restaurants.

[pizzaboyfan]

If one in 5 pizzerias could make a decent pie, none of us would have built ovens or set out on a quest to learn the art .

I think you should invoke the 999/20 rule....and even that is generous

[Pete-zza]

I agree with the other members that char on pizza crust is a matter of personal preference, as this roadfood.com thread amplifies: http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/Burnt-Pizza-Crust-Yay-or-Nay-m352870.aspx.

I personally am not big on char, whether it is on grilled meats, pizza crusts or even burnt toast. My concern, which goes back many years, is the potentially carcinogenic effects of char. Most of the literature since the 1970s has focused mostly on grilled meats (see, for example, the recent article at http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/07/healthy-eating) but I have learned to steer clear of char in most of its manifestations. My idea of the perfect pizza from the char standpoint is Bill/SFNM's Neapolitan-style pizzas. Examples of what I consider ideal, if not perfect, for my taste, are these:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1613.msg14597.html#msg14597

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7282.msg62833.html#msg62833

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9337.msg80776.html#msg80776

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13444.msg133690.html#msg133690

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8911.msg77247.html#msg77247

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14484.msg144354.html#msg144354

And, from John (dellavecchia), these: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12606.msg121051.html#msg121051

Peter

[Matthew]

I look on this forum from time to time, particularly in this section. What really disappoints is to see burnt pizzas being paraded as masterpieces? Of course some degree of char is desirable, but I'd say 50-60% of pizzas I see on here are excessively charred.

I know it's all a preference thing, but who actually likes a severely blackened pizza. Here's what I class as spot on

http://youngandfoodish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/rosso-pizza.jpg

Please feel free to point out which "masterpieces" you are referring to specifically.  Perhaps we can compare it with one of your own "masterpieces".

Matt

[Jackie Tran]

Some gentlemen also prefer blondes and any amount of char is too much char.  I however do not discriminate as long as the rim is big, puffy, and hot.   

[The Dough Doctor]

This reminds me of the time when WFO pizzas first came to Chicago, Illinois, back in the late 1970's. The number one complaint was: "My pizza is burnt!" As a resident Chicagoan, (since displaced to Manhattan, Kansas) I can attest to the fact that pizza lovers in Chicago at that time were not used to, or seldom exposed to, char of any persuasion on a pizza. Hence, if there was any char on the crust it was deemed to be burnt. With time the good people of "The Windy City" were educated in the different types of pizza, and today, char is considered to be just another characteristic on some types of pizzas. The amount of char on a pizza is purely the preference of the pizza maker, some like more, some like less, some don't like it at all. I will say this, if you have ever had an English muffin that was toasted, you probably ate something with a good bit of char on it, and for the most part, the char really adds a dimension of flavor to the pizza crust that just plain old "browning" can't provide. As for pizza char at the restaurant v/s char on a home made pizza, any commercial pizza oven worth having has pretty decent control, in one way or another between top and bottom heat (baking properties) allowing you to get a perfectly baked pizza with a controlled amount of char. Pizzas baked in a home oven, being a kitchen range, or outdoor/backyard WFO typically don't have all of the design features of a commercial oven to allow for this kind of control during the baking of the pizza, hence control of the char is somewhat more problematic, but more importantly, those home baked pizzas are a personal accomplishment, sometimes the end result of a lot of hard work and dedicated time to making a great tasting pizza with the tools at hand. This is why we see so much variation in the amount of char on home made pizzas, it's just the way it is, plus, one other important fact. When I make pizza at home, it is to MY liking, not my customer's, so if I just happen to like a lot of char, you can bet that it will be there by some design.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

[thezaman]

 char is to much when it overwhelms the other ingredients.i agree that at times my pizzas get overdone,usually on the bottom . but that if you don't have  some char spots top and bottom the pizza has been cooked at to low a temperature. it is a challenge to cook a good margherita . temperature of the floor, dough hydration, age of the dough all play major rolls in the perfect pie. that is what i personally love about wood pizza it is always different. cooking tonight, will see if i can make the perfect pie. after three years with my oven haven't got there yet maybe tonight.

[nbickett]

Just a point on diction, "tolerant" does not seem applicable as this is more so an elective forum wherein members exchange ideas and experiments (as aforementioned). Such an environment (or word choice) would imply coercion or arrogance.

[Pizzamaster]

I agree with you man. Black means something is burning. First thing they taught me in culinary school.

[andreguidon]

what about creme brulee....
http://www.estadao.com.br/paladar-app/imagens/1/401/18363.jpg
its burnt, but its OK??
the Char is something typical and totally related to neapolitan pizza, and this kind of pizza is very traditional as it is, and loved by manny here, and all over Italy, specially Naples... i agree some US pizza places are exaggerating on the leopard spots.....

[dellavecchia]

I agree with you man. Black means something is burning. First thing they taught me in culinary school.

What about food cooked on a grill?

John

[Pizzamaster]

Here we go lol. Creme Brulee is carmelized not charred. Food cooked on a grill has no relation to either pizza or CB. It is seared.

[cornicione54]

OK so...
Seared: