Author Topic: Giordano's-style Deep Dish  (Read 27196 times)

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Offline templeofsamadhi

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2006, 11:42:53 PM »
Ok, I hope to put this to bed once and for all.  --I am a long time reader of this forum, but a first time poster.-- As a former employee of Giordanos in Oakbrook IL, I can say with out question that they 100% totally DO use a top layer of dough(or crust).  This was also the case with the Giordanos in Oak Park where I lived, the Rosemont location they ship worldwide from, and every other  Giordanos in the chain as far as I know.  If someone found one that doesnt do this, its the exception, not the norm. I just laugh and shake my head at everyone arguing over this all the time. Its why its called a STUFFED pizza. Now that said, I can see why people doubt this is so. Yes, this is a VERY THIN layer of dough. It sits right under the sauce and above the cheese. The moisture(and weight) of the sauce keeps it from rising and it blends seemlessly with the cheese. (if the sauce was added with just a few minutes left in the baking process the top layer would puff up and rise like Sabarros stuffed pizza) And because of the similar color to cheese no one knows its there. I didnt until I started working there. But rest assured, it is.

Every pizza I bake I add it too. I make 150% of the standard DKM dough recipe.  Then before rolling out the dough, I cut off 1/3 of that, roll it out into a large circle, and set it aside for the top layer.   I'll post some pics on here soon. 

I also have to thank everyone on this forum for the great dough and sauce recipes.  Ever since I left Chicago I had been wanting to replicate the Giordanos experience here in Pittsburgh. Thanks for making that possible as these recipes are right on.


Offline lilbuddypizza

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2006, 12:53:18 AM »
Ok, I hope to put this to bed once and for all.  --I am a long time reader of this forum, but a first time poster.-- As a former employee of Giordanos in Oakbrook IL, I can say with out question that they 100% totally DO use a top layer of dough(or crust).  This was also the case with the Giordanos in Oak Park where I lived, the Rosemont location they ship worldwide from, and every other  Giordanos in the chain as far as I know.  If someone found one that doesnt do this, its the exception, not the norm. I just laugh and shake my head at everyone arguing over this all the time. Its why its called a STUFFED pizza. Now that said, I can see why people doubt this is so. Yes, this is a VERY THIN layer of dough. It sits right under the sauce and above the cheese. The moisture(and weight) of the sauce keeps it from rising and it blends seemlessly with the cheese. (if the sauce was added with just a few minutes left in the baking process the top layer would puff up and rise like Sabarros stuffed pizza) And because of the similar color to cheese no one knows its there. I didnt until I started working there. But rest assured, it is.

Every pizza I bake I add it too. I make 150% of the standard DKM dough recipe.  Then before rolling out the dough, I cut off 1/3 of that, roll it out into a large circle, and set it aside for the top layer.   I'll post some pics on here soon. 

I also have to thank everyone on this forum for the great dough and sauce recipes.  Ever since I left Chicago I had been wanting to replicate the Giordanos experience here in Pittsburgh. Thanks for making that possible as these recipes are right on.

Thank you. The obvious reason why it's called stuffed......

Offline Steve

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2006, 11:33:36 AM »
Thanks for clearing that up!  :chef:

Now, just how do they get that nice chiseled look around the top edge?
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Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2006, 12:27:04 PM »
Interesting!

Then my local Giordano's was not the norm--no top crust there! At least I could stand and watch the whole operation in full view, from start to finish!

Offline templeofsamadhi

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2006, 02:59:09 PM »
"Now, just how do they get that nice chiseled look around the top edge? "

very simple, run a pizza cutter horizontal around the top rim prior to baking.....here
is a crude drawing..........

Offline Steve

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2006, 08:32:17 PM »
"Now, just how do they get that nice chiseled look around the top edge? "

very simple, run a pizza cutter horizontal around the top rim prior to baking.....here
is a crude drawing..........

So you run the dough up over the rim of the pan, then use a pizza cutter (horizontally) and run it around just below the rim? So easy... I should have thought of that! Duh!
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Offline Steve

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2006, 08:34:44 PM »
Interesting!

Then my local Giordano's was not the norm--no top crust there! At least I could stand and watch the whole operation in full view, from start to finish!

Are you sure you weren't watching them make regular "Deep Dish" and not "Stuffed"?
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Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2006, 01:42:48 PM »
I believe all they have is thin crust and stuffed.

No top crust at this location. As I said, I even asked the order-taker about their terminology and she said, "Stuffed is just what we call our deep dish."

Offline bboy

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2006, 12:29:31 AM »
I made my first Chicago tonight thanks to all the hard work and posting. I used the 9" variation of Buzz's as follows

Giordano’s Famous Stuffed Crust Recipe
Scaled for 9inch Pizza

Dough Ingredients:
3 cups Ceresota or King Arthur Brand All-Purpose Flour  (Measured Scoop and Sweep using a butter knife)
1 ½ teaspoon Kosher Salt
1 ½ teaspoon Granulated Sugar
11 teaspoons Wesson Canola Oil  (individually measured level tsps.)
1 teaspoon Bertolli’s Classic Olive Oil
¾ cup Warm Water
1 ½ teaspoon SAF Yeast

The only variation was that I used Fleischmens yeast. I proofed it and kneaded the dough for only 1 minute. I let it rise at room temp for 8 hrs and then refrigerated for another 8. I then removed it and let it stand at room temp for 2 hours before rolling and paning. Overall I was very pleased but I would like some help. The crust seemed to be a bit too bready for my liking. I think it may have needed more oil either in the pan or the original dough??? Here are some pics.

Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2006, 09:27:50 AM »
The ratio I use is 3 tablespoons (not teaspoons) oil/ 1 cup flour. Lately I've been kneading at least 2 minutes and have been experimenting with 2.5 minutes--I find that the 1 minute kneasd comes out a bit too biscuit-like.

That's also too much flour for a 9" pizza--you should 2 cups at the most or it will be too thick and won't cook properly.


Offline gottabedapan

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2006, 09:34:02 AM »
The ratio I use is 3 tablespoons (not teaspoons) oil/ 1 cup flour. Lately I've been kneading at least 2 minutes and have been experimenting with 2.5 minutes--I find that the 1 minute kneasd comes out a bit too biscuit-like.

I've reduced the oil in Buzz's formulation to 2 1/4 Tbs/c c flour without noticably affecting the texture of the dough.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2006, 09:38:49 AM »
bboy,

Can you tell us what the height of the crust was in the pan, and also whether you used instant dry yeast (IDY) or active dry yeast (ADY)? And was the Fleischmann's yeast the Rapid-Rise variety? With the answers, I might be able to run all the numbers through a spreadsheet and tell you whether there was anything out of whack weight-wise, or otherwise, although I think buzz may have put his finger on the problem.

Peter

Offline bboy

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2006, 09:23:07 PM »
Thanks for the help fellas, I'm going for round two tonight. I used Fleischmens Active Dry Yeast. The pan is a 9" cake pan which is 2" deep. It did seem like a bit too much crust. I did use a third for the top layer and it turned out well. The bottom crust was a little too thick. As for Pete-zza's ? the dough was probably around 1" and higher in some spots.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2006, 10:04:04 PM »
bboy,

I'm afraid my spreadsheet won't be of much help with this one since it isn't set up for a stuffed deep-dish with a top crust. I had noticed the use of the term "stuffed" but since buzz had previously indicated that the Giordano's pizzas without the top crust are often called "stuffed", I assumed that there was no top crust.

However, from the information you have provided, I estimate that the total dough weight comes to about 23 ounces. For a 9" pan that is 2" inches deep, and of which you are using about 1 inch of it for the deep-dish pizza, I estimate that the weight of the dough for the bottom and sides comes to around 10 ounces. I also estimate that the weight of the additional crust (top crust) is around 7 oz. if you use the same crust thickness. The total dough weight would therefore be around 17 ounces. Both calculations assume a thickness factor of 0.11, which is fairly typical for a deep-dish style. If you better than double the amount of oil as buzz has recommended, from 4 T. for 3 cups of flour as originally stated in your recipe to 9 T., then you will be adding about another 2 ounces to the total dough weight. You will have to compensate for the added weight by using less when you roll out and pan the dough. I understand that the top crust for a stuffed pizza is actually quite thin, so you may find that you don't need 7 full ounces of dough for that crust.

Good luck, and please report back on your results with the next pizza.

Peter

Offline cameron

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2006, 10:13:05 PM »
bboy,

I've been experimenting with buzz's recipe for the last few weeks.  I'm going for what I think is going to be quite close to my final recipe tomorrow (is there such a thing?).  The dough is in the refrigerator now for my next attempt.  I am no expert like some on this forum, but for what it is worth, read on...

What I made last week seemed to work out very well.  I measured some things by weight (where indicated), and the rest by volume.  I do not have a KitchenAid, so this is all by hand.

This is for a 10" American Metalcraft deep-dish pizza pan, tapered sides (top rim is 10" diameter, bottom inside is 9"), 2" tall.

3 C. Gold Medal AP flour (375g)
2 tsp. Fleischman Active Dry Yeast (slightly less than one "packet")
1 ½ tsp. sugar
¾ tsp. salt
7 ½ Tbsp. Crisco Pure Canola Oil (105g)
1 ½ Tbps. Bertolli Extra Light Olive Oil (20g)
¾ C. + 3 ½ tsp. warm water (195g)

I proofed the yeast first in ¼ C. water with some of the sugar for 10 minutes while I prepared the rest of dry ingredients.  I've found that I can't get any higher hydration levels than that without the dough getting very wet/sticky and impossible to work with for a short knead.  I added both oils to the flour first, mixed that up, then added the proofed yeast water, mixed, then the rest of the water.  All of this was quite quick.  My total combined mixing + kneading time was about 2.75 - 3 minutes.  After kneading I covered the bowl with plastic wrap and a slightly damp towel and placed directly in the refrigerator.  I usually get a decent rise in 24 hours.

I find the dough very difficult to work with when it is cold, so I usually take it out of the fridge at least 4 hours before I want to work with it.  I punch it down 30 minutes before I want to roll it out and let it rest.  While it is resting I make my sauce, prepare toppings and coat my pan liberally with margarine.  I separate about 1/3 of the crust and set it aside for a top crust.  I roll out the dough with a regular rolling pin to the right size, and I let it drape over the top edge of the pan while I press it in.

After the bottom crust is in, I put the toppings next, then 1 lbs. of mozzarella cheese (I've found that to be about right for this size pan).  I've found a combination of slices and shredded seems to cover the best.  All shredded makes it too tall until it melts...  On top of the cheese I placed my other dough, rolled out VERY thin.  I press this against the sides of the pan to make sure it meshes well with the other side dough, and drape it over the edge likewise.  There is usually about ½ inch left above the top crust before the top of the pan at this point.  I then roll off the excess overhang, but I think I'll try using the cutter as demonstrated above tomorrow.  Before anyone tells me that this is a lot of dough for this size pan, I end up rolling off about 25% of it by weight and discarding (I'm not very good at making perfect circles with my rolling pin).  So my final dough weight including top and bottom crust ends up being about 500g give or take.

For toppings I usually use italian sausage (which I cook beforehand) and/or spinach.  There is almost always garlic down with the toppings too, because we love garlic.

For sauce I am using Escalon 6-in-1 All Purpose Ground Tomatoes.  I've experimented with as little as 444g and as much as 794g on this size of a pizza, trying both drained and undrained.  I think tomorrow I'll go with about 550g of undrained 6-in-1's (about ⅔ of a 28 oz. can).  When I visited Chicago recently, I found Giordano's sauce was much sweeter than what I was using, so I upped the sugar a bit from buzz's sauce recipe.  My version of buzz's sauce recipe is as follows:

550 g Escalon 6-in-1 All Purpose Ground Tomatoes (19.5 oz.)
3 cloves garlic
2 tsp. sugar
¾ tsp. salt
¾ tsp. black pepper
1 tsp. oregano

I usually sprinkle a bit of parmesean cheese on top of the sauce for looks.

I have my pizza stone on the second from bottom rack of my oven, both oven and stone preheated to 450F (oven thermometer confirms my oven is pretty accurate).  I place my pan directly on the stone and bake at 450F for 45 minutes.  It comes out very close to Giordano's.  My last try was sausage and spinach, with a final pizza weight of over 4 lbs!  I do not even want to know how many calories.

If tomorrow's pizza turns out well, I will adapt the recipe to my 14" pan and give that a whirl as well.  My next experiment is with a longer rise time for better flavor - say 48-72 hours - with a daily punch down.

As soon as I get the "perfect" looking and tasting pizza, I'll post some more pictures.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 10:16:30 PM by cameron »

Offline bboy

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2006, 09:30:25 PM »
Thanks Cameron, I made a recipe very similar to this yesterday. It was adapted for a 9" by 2" cake pan. I used 2.5 cups flour and still had plenty of excess dough. I kneaded it with kitchenaid for 90 seconds. The crust turned out a bit to flakey. I may try to knead for 2 minutes as Buzz suggested. Thanks for the tips Cameron, I agree with the sauce needing to be a bit sweeter. Please let me know your final results and recipe!


Offline pulco

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2006, 09:46:04 AM »
I'd be really interested in seeing the video mentioned earlier. Maybe someone who has downloaded it could upload it to Youtube.com?

Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2006, 12:06:20 PM »
Bboy--

If you want to actually duplicate the Giordano's sauce, you don't need a lot of sugar, but you do need red pepper flakes. Their sauce has a lot of heat to it!

Offline Wazatron

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2006, 10:43:00 AM »
Hi all - I'm going to be making my first "Buzz" Giordano's pizza this weekend and I had a couple questions.

I'm making it in a 12" pan, which is larger than most attempts I've read about. With this size pan would it be recommended to par-bake it at all, or should it be okay through the standard procedure?

Also, I might end up needing to start cooking the pie at noon (having company over) which - unless I really want to get up super early, and I don't  ;D - doesn't give me the proper rise-window.

I can either make the dough the night before and park it in the fridge overnight, and then pull it out 2-4 hours before baking

or

make it that morning (probably around 7 or 8) and give it a shorter rise on the counter at room temp until time to cook.

Which would be the best of these two options? I'm guessing the longer overnight option but I thought I'd check with the masters! :)

Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2006, 10:51:03 AM »
I would do the fridge with your time window.

No need to par-bake. What I've been doing lately is baking for half the time (in my oven, deep dishes take 40 minutes to cook at 450) covered with foil, then uncovered for the remaining half.