Author Topic: Giordano's-style Deep Dish  (Read 29733 times)

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Offline gottabedapan

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2006, 09:34:02 AM »
The ratio I use is 3 tablespoons (not teaspoons) oil/ 1 cup flour. Lately I've been kneading at least 2 minutes and have been experimenting with 2.5 minutes--I find that the 1 minute kneasd comes out a bit too biscuit-like.

I've reduced the oil in Buzz's formulation to 2 1/4 Tbs/c c flour without noticably affecting the texture of the dough.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2006, 09:38:49 AM »
bboy,

Can you tell us what the height of the crust was in the pan, and also whether you used instant dry yeast (IDY) or active dry yeast (ADY)? And was the Fleischmann's yeast the Rapid-Rise variety? With the answers, I might be able to run all the numbers through a spreadsheet and tell you whether there was anything out of whack weight-wise, or otherwise, although I think buzz may have put his finger on the problem.

Peter

Offline bboy

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2006, 09:23:07 PM »
Thanks for the help fellas, I'm going for round two tonight. I used Fleischmens Active Dry Yeast. The pan is a 9" cake pan which is 2" deep. It did seem like a bit too much crust. I did use a third for the top layer and it turned out well. The bottom crust was a little too thick. As for Pete-zza's ? the dough was probably around 1" and higher in some spots.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2006, 10:04:04 PM »
bboy,

I'm afraid my spreadsheet won't be of much help with this one since it isn't set up for a stuffed deep-dish with a top crust. I had noticed the use of the term "stuffed" but since buzz had previously indicated that the Giordano's pizzas without the top crust are often called "stuffed", I assumed that there was no top crust.

However, from the information you have provided, I estimate that the total dough weight comes to about 23 ounces. For a 9" pan that is 2" inches deep, and of which you are using about 1 inch of it for the deep-dish pizza, I estimate that the weight of the dough for the bottom and sides comes to around 10 ounces. I also estimate that the weight of the additional crust (top crust) is around 7 oz. if you use the same crust thickness. The total dough weight would therefore be around 17 ounces. Both calculations assume a thickness factor of 0.11, which is fairly typical for a deep-dish style. If you better than double the amount of oil as buzz has recommended, from 4 T. for 3 cups of flour as originally stated in your recipe to 9 T., then you will be adding about another 2 ounces to the total dough weight. You will have to compensate for the added weight by using less when you roll out and pan the dough. I understand that the top crust for a stuffed pizza is actually quite thin, so you may find that you don't need 7 full ounces of dough for that crust.

Good luck, and please report back on your results with the next pizza.

Peter

Offline cameron

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2006, 10:13:05 PM »
bboy,

I've been experimenting with buzz's recipe for the last few weeks.  I'm going for what I think is going to be quite close to my final recipe tomorrow (is there such a thing?).  The dough is in the refrigerator now for my next attempt.  I am no expert like some on this forum, but for what it is worth, read on...

What I made last week seemed to work out very well.  I measured some things by weight (where indicated), and the rest by volume.  I do not have a KitchenAid, so this is all by hand.

This is for a 10" American Metalcraft deep-dish pizza pan, tapered sides (top rim is 10" diameter, bottom inside is 9"), 2" tall.

3 C. Gold Medal AP flour (375g)
2 tsp. Fleischman Active Dry Yeast (slightly less than one "packet")
1 ½ tsp. sugar
¾ tsp. salt
7 ½ Tbsp. Crisco Pure Canola Oil (105g)
1 ½ Tbps. Bertolli Extra Light Olive Oil (20g)
¾ C. + 3 ½ tsp. warm water (195g)

I proofed the yeast first in ¼ C. water with some of the sugar for 10 minutes while I prepared the rest of dry ingredients.  I've found that I can't get any higher hydration levels than that without the dough getting very wet/sticky and impossible to work with for a short knead.  I added both oils to the flour first, mixed that up, then added the proofed yeast water, mixed, then the rest of the water.  All of this was quite quick.  My total combined mixing + kneading time was about 2.75 - 3 minutes.  After kneading I covered the bowl with plastic wrap and a slightly damp towel and placed directly in the refrigerator.  I usually get a decent rise in 24 hours.

I find the dough very difficult to work with when it is cold, so I usually take it out of the fridge at least 4 hours before I want to work with it.  I punch it down 30 minutes before I want to roll it out and let it rest.  While it is resting I make my sauce, prepare toppings and coat my pan liberally with margarine.  I separate about 1/3 of the crust and set it aside for a top crust.  I roll out the dough with a regular rolling pin to the right size, and I let it drape over the top edge of the pan while I press it in.

After the bottom crust is in, I put the toppings next, then 1 lbs. of mozzarella cheese (I've found that to be about right for this size pan).  I've found a combination of slices and shredded seems to cover the best.  All shredded makes it too tall until it melts...  On top of the cheese I placed my other dough, rolled out VERY thin.  I press this against the sides of the pan to make sure it meshes well with the other side dough, and drape it over the edge likewise.  There is usually about ½ inch left above the top crust before the top of the pan at this point.  I then roll off the excess overhang, but I think I'll try using the cutter as demonstrated above tomorrow.  Before anyone tells me that this is a lot of dough for this size pan, I end up rolling off about 25% of it by weight and discarding (I'm not very good at making perfect circles with my rolling pin).  So my final dough weight including top and bottom crust ends up being about 500g give or take.

For toppings I usually use italian sausage (which I cook beforehand) and/or spinach.  There is almost always garlic down with the toppings too, because we love garlic.

For sauce I am using Escalon 6-in-1 All Purpose Ground Tomatoes.  I've experimented with as little as 444g and as much as 794g on this size of a pizza, trying both drained and undrained.  I think tomorrow I'll go with about 550g of undrained 6-in-1's (about ⅔ of a 28 oz. can).  When I visited Chicago recently, I found Giordano's sauce was much sweeter than what I was using, so I upped the sugar a bit from buzz's sauce recipe.  My version of buzz's sauce recipe is as follows:

550 g Escalon 6-in-1 All Purpose Ground Tomatoes (19.5 oz.)
3 cloves garlic
2 tsp. sugar
¾ tsp. salt
¾ tsp. black pepper
1 tsp. oregano

I usually sprinkle a bit of parmesean cheese on top of the sauce for looks.

I have my pizza stone on the second from bottom rack of my oven, both oven and stone preheated to 450F (oven thermometer confirms my oven is pretty accurate).  I place my pan directly on the stone and bake at 450F for 45 minutes.  It comes out very close to Giordano's.  My last try was sausage and spinach, with a final pizza weight of over 4 lbs!  I do not even want to know how many calories.

If tomorrow's pizza turns out well, I will adapt the recipe to my 14" pan and give that a whirl as well.  My next experiment is with a longer rise time for better flavor - say 48-72 hours - with a daily punch down.

As soon as I get the "perfect" looking and tasting pizza, I'll post some more pictures.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 10:16:30 PM by cameron »

Offline bboy

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2006, 09:30:25 PM »
Thanks Cameron, I made a recipe very similar to this yesterday. It was adapted for a 9" by 2" cake pan. I used 2.5 cups flour and still had plenty of excess dough. I kneaded it with kitchenaid for 90 seconds. The crust turned out a bit to flakey. I may try to knead for 2 minutes as Buzz suggested. Thanks for the tips Cameron, I agree with the sauce needing to be a bit sweeter. Please let me know your final results and recipe!


Offline pulco

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2006, 09:46:04 AM »
I'd be really interested in seeing the video mentioned earlier. Maybe someone who has downloaded it could upload it to Youtube.com?

Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2006, 12:06:20 PM »
Bboy--

If you want to actually duplicate the Giordano's sauce, you don't need a lot of sugar, but you do need red pepper flakes. Their sauce has a lot of heat to it!

Offline Wazatron

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2006, 10:43:00 AM »
Hi all - I'm going to be making my first "Buzz" Giordano's pizza this weekend and I had a couple questions.

I'm making it in a 12" pan, which is larger than most attempts I've read about. With this size pan would it be recommended to par-bake it at all, or should it be okay through the standard procedure?

Also, I might end up needing to start cooking the pie at noon (having company over) which - unless I really want to get up super early, and I don't  ;D - doesn't give me the proper rise-window.

I can either make the dough the night before and park it in the fridge overnight, and then pull it out 2-4 hours before baking

or

make it that morning (probably around 7 or 8) and give it a shorter rise on the counter at room temp until time to cook.

Which would be the best of these two options? I'm guessing the longer overnight option but I thought I'd check with the masters! :)


Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2006, 10:51:03 AM »
I would do the fridge with your time window.

No need to par-bake. What I've been doing lately is baking for half the time (in my oven, deep dishes take 40 minutes to cook at 450) covered with foil, then uncovered for the remaining half.

Offline burn8

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2006, 04:43:01 PM »
I can confirm that there is a top layer of dough on the stuffed Giordanos. I stood and watched the cooks make probably 20 pies this way. To get the clean top edge, they were running a small, apparently quite sharp, knife around the top of the pan after setting the top layer of dough and pinching approx 8 small holes in it.

the

Offline Wazatron

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2006, 05:59:56 PM »
Hi all - Buzz, I was able to try out your recipe this weekend and it was a smashing success!! I'm afraid I don't have pictures, but I'll make it again at some point and take pictures.

The only problem I had was that the bottom burnt on me, but I'm 99% sure that it was because I left the oven rack at the lowest position (I had baked anotehr pizza earlier) so when the oven would cycle on the pan was right next to the heating elements. Amazingly it still tasted great.

Even though I didn't get pictures I thought I'd share the recipe I used, since I changed it to IDY instead of ADY.

•   3 cups KA Bread Flour (I meant to use AP, but when it came time to make it KABF was all I had)
•   0.12 oz/3.15 grams/1.2 tsp IDY
•   ~1 cup total water (the dough was fairly dry, even when I quit adding water)
•   1.5 tsp. sugar
•   1.5 tsp. Kosher salt
•   9 TBS (not tsp.) oil (7 canola, 2 extra light olive oil)

Like I said it was still pretty dry, and I'm assuming I ended up at 1 cup since I started with .75. But it rose nicely on the counter for 8 hours and rolled out easily. Overal it was a great success! I will try again with pictures!

Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2006, 11:08:25 AM »
Glad you liked it! Middle position is better in the oven!

Offline munman

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2006, 08:34:15 PM »
Here is my question.  I have the dough down pat.   It took some work but I got it.  Help me with the layering.  Is it cheese, toppings, crushed tomatoes then repeat.  If so, how many layers before I put the top crust on.  My wife and I argue about it everytime I make the pie.

Offline RSMBob

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2006, 01:22:02 AM »
Good question...here's how I understand it from what I have eaten and made"

From the bottom:
Dough pulled up the side
Sliced (not shredded) mozz/cheese
Toppings/Fillings
Optional: some sauce
2nd dough layer
Sauce/Tomatoes
Sprinkle of Parmesan or Romano Cheese

Oh great...now I'm hungry!

Offline templeofsamadhi

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2006, 02:02:36 PM »
Nooooo.....not quite if you are trying to make a Giordano's style deep dish. Here is the breakdown from bottom up:


Dough
toppings
cheese(NOT sliced, SHREDDED--Gino's East uses sliced)
2nd dough layer
sauce
sprinkled parm cheese

Note there are no 2nd layers of sauce or toppings. Giordanos follows this very closely. BTW, Black olives are a topping that doesnt follow these rules, they are left out of the middle and put on the very top, right before the pie being sprinkled with parm cheese. I assume its because they arent drained well and would release alot of unwanted moisture into the center of the pizza.

Offline smokeyglass

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2006, 03:13:32 PM »
Hi, I am new.  I just found this great site, as I was trying to locate the key to the unique crust on the Girodano's stuffed pizza.  What a find!  I am in Oregon and had 2 pizzas shipped to me by a Chicago friend.  We cooked them yesterday and they were wonderful.  I am excited to try out the recipes on this thread.  We have a wood-fired brick pizza oven - does anyone else out there have this type of oven?  I am curious about baking times as it differs a lot from regular ovens. 

Thanks in advance. 

Jeanette
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Offline buzz

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2006, 12:52:52 PM »
Smokeyglass--

if you have Leonardo's frozen deep dish in your area, the crust is practically identical to Giordano's (so you wouldn't have to have it shipped, if you don't want to make your own). The sauce is not Giordano's-style, but you can make your own, if you'd like (it comes in a separate packet).

Offline smokeyglass

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2006, 05:40:10 PM »
Thanks, Buzz.  I have never seen Leonardo's but do appreciate the tip.  I have never purchased a frozen pizza so it may be out there somewhere and I have just not seen it.  I was fortunate enough to have a friend in Chicago send these Giordano's stuffed pizzas to me.  I am going to try making it myself, need to purchase some deep dish pie pans first.  I am used to making the thin crust pizzas with my own recipe and do not use a pie pan. 

Thanks again for the info, and what a great bulletin board this is! 

Jeanette
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Offline timza

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2007, 06:52:47 PM »
I am confused...
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 02:20:23 PM by timza »
Eratosthenes calculated the Earth's circumference around 240 B.C.

Offline goosen1

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #70 on: February 24, 2007, 09:07:51 PM »
This is the recipe that I have

Scaled for 9inch Pizza

Dough Ingredients:
3 cups Ceresota or King Arthur Brand All-Purpose Flour  (Measured Scoop and Sweep using a butter knife)
1 ½ teaspoon Kosher Salt
1 ½ teaspoon Granulated Sugar
11 teaspoons Wesson Canola Oil  (individually measured level tsps.)
1 teaspoon Bertolli’s Classic Olive Oil
¾ cup Warm Water
1 ½ teaspoon SAF Yeast

Sauce Recipe:  Make Ahead of Time

1 – 28oz. Can Escalon Brand 6-in-1 All Purpose Ground Tomatoes (completely drained in a double fine strainer) (When I used escalon straight out of the can I got soup).
3/4  teaspoon Minced Garlic
1 teaspoon Sugar
¾ teaspoon Kosher Salt
1 teaspoon Dried Basil
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 09:16:01 PM by goosen1 »
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Offline timza

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Re: Giordano's-style Deep Dish
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2007, 08:03:20 AM »
The first recipe by buzz the original poster had 9 teaspoons canola oil, then there was some discussion about reducing that amount of oil to 7, then a calculation to 7.10, then buzz wrote "The ratio I use is 3 tablespoons (not teaspoons) oil/ 1 cup flour", which would make the first recipe (because the first recipe had 1.5 cups flour) have 1.5 times 3 tablespoons of oil, or 4.5 tablespoons of oil, which I believe is 13.5 teaspoons.

So I am confused.

Tim
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 02:21:42 PM by timza »
Eratosthenes calculated the Earth's circumference around 240 B.C.


 

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