Author Topic: Hydration revelation  (Read 908 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1196
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2014, 10:32:57 PM »
Aimless, that is one great looking pizza.  Textbook!  Well done! 


Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1915
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2014, 12:53:31 PM »
Thanks everyone who has complimented my pics. I've been thinking about NY style in general a lot the last several days--studying pics of NY style pizzas that show up in a Google image search--and I think it has helped me better understand some of the picky little details that differentiate true NY style pizza from almost-NY style. And I'd consider basically all the NY style pics on these boards, including my own pics, to be "almost-NY style" rather than actual NY style.

In the image search results there are some pics of pizzas that obviously came from real NY pizzerias and there are some pics that obviously didn't come from real NY pizzerias. When I'm honest with myself (which I usually am), I have to admit to myself that my pizzas more closely resemble the pictures of pizzas I think did not come from real NY pizzerias.

For starters, my rims are too big and bready. (The one in the pics was less bready than usual.) When I stretch NY style dough I tend to have a particular crust shape in mind, and I always make it a point not to press the air out of the rim. However, as of the last few days, I just don't think that is the right way to approach it. I'm now thinking I should approach it as if I'm trying to make a completely flat pizza but with just a little hint of rim. In this mental model there is essentially no crumb worth pointing out.

I was thinking I'd quit making pizza either forever or for a long time once I run out of my current cheese stash, but now I'm thinking I may buy one more loaf of cheese just to work out the NY style thoughts that have been on my mind lately.

Online mitchjg

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 661
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2014, 01:04:54 PM »
You may be interested in what Andrew Bellucci has to say, if you have not already seen his posts.

He made pizza in several place in NYC for many years and shared his "go to" recipe.

57% water hydration + 1% oil.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31477.msg312872#msg312872

- Mitch

Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1915
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2014, 01:20:09 PM »
I've read a lot (or all) of his stuff, and I like his approach and style. Seems like a cool guy, too. However, I didn't even think about the fact that he uses such a similar dough formula as what I've been using here. (Don't think he has posted lately, has he?) I can't remember him saying much about what flour he uses, but I assume it's much different than anything we can get (or are likely to use) in the States. I might just re-read that thread later. Thanks for sharing it and reminding me.

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1196
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2014, 01:21:29 PM »
I was thinking I'd quit making pizza either forever or for a long time once I run out of my current cheese stash, but now I'm thinking I may buy one more loaf of cheese just to work out the NY style thoughts that have been on my mind lately.

Well of course we are wondering what could possibly drive you to stop making pizza for even a short time let alone a long time or  :o forever.  Are you disappointed, disillusioned, or what?

Offline Donjo911

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 624
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2014, 01:23:21 PM »
Well of course we are wondering what could possibly drive you to stop making pizza for even a short time let alone a long time or  :o forever.  Are you disappointed, disillusioned, or what?
+1. What gives?  Pizza'd out?!
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6937
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2014, 04:07:04 PM »
I may go as high as 58% again someday, but I will never go higher than that because it simply does not create pizza that resembles pizza I've eaten in New York or New Jersey.

With all due respect, Ryan, you should be striving for way better pizza than what you had on your trek through this area.  NY area pizza is, presently, lower hydration, because it's easier to work with, but it's also presently really bad.

Once you start going below a flour's rated absorption value, the flour particles have to fight for access to the water, and only partially hydrate.  Insufficiently hydrated flour won't develop gluten properly, and you end up with a denser crumb. Combine that with a typical NY pizzeria owner's lack of understanding of how fermentation works and you get very flat dense pizza.

If you truly loved the pizza you had when you were in NY, then, sure, do what you're doing.  But pizza can be a thousand times better than what's sold in this area when some additional oven spring is involved.

NY style pizza, at it's best, has, imo, a very small, yet pronounced rim, and a non rim area that's both very thin and uniform (no bowling).  In order to achieve a small enough rim, I find pressing out about a 1/4" rim during the stretch is necessary.  In order to avoid bowling, edge stretching must be performed.  I spend a great deal of time posting videos showing how edge stretching is done, but it's very rare that I see any home bakers edge stretch properly.

If you press out a 1/4" rim, and you're working with a properly fermented, properly hydrated dough baked for 4-5 minutes, you will see a pretty dramatic oven spring, and, while the rim won't be huge, it will be normal, according to this area's standards, and it will have a discernible puffy crumb.

Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1915
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2014, 05:15:09 PM »
Well of course we are wondering what could possibly drive you to stop making pizza for even a short time let alone a long time or  :o forever.  Are you disappointed, disillusioned, or what?

Quick explanation for now. Some of it is easy to explain/understand, but much of it is impossible for most people to understand.

My body is very badly broken (multiple sclerosis), and it just keeps getting worse. I can barely walk even with a cane, and I fall a lot. It's amazing that I haven't seriously injured myself yet, or at least broken some dishes, but thankfully I haven't. It's inevitable that I'm eventually going to fall and seriously injure myself (or worse), and I can't think very straight most of the time.

It all starts in the brain, and pizza isn't doing my brain any good. I'd love to keep making pizza and giving it to others, but my takers constantly flake out on me after I've already done all the work that has become very difficult for me. All this stuff keeps me from doing what I really should be doing, which is following a strict MS-related diet (Wahls diet) and devoting most of the rest of my time to physical activity.

I can only do about 20% of what I could do a few years ago, and I hurt all the time. I need a lot of rest. And when I'm not resting, I need to be 100% with the program (instead of the 50-80% I've been giving it for a while). I've tried to make it so pizza only occupies a small portion of my thoughts and physical activity, but I just don't think I can do that. It's either think about pizza most of the time or think about pizza none of the time. So this is not an easy decision, and I doubt that I can just walk away from pizza forever. (I did completely walk away from pizza for five months last year.) You have to do some of the things you love, at least sometimes, even if they are really bad for you.

Offline mkevenson

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2215
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Roos! Protector of Fowl
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2014, 05:33:27 PM »
Ryan, tough decision, but has to be made. Sounds like you have got a good head on your shoulders. Make the best of the time you have. I have seen others travel a similar path to yours, if wishes could be cures you would have mine.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Donjo911

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 624
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2014, 05:51:46 PM »
Ryan,
Very sorry to hear about your illness and pain. I'm glad you have not fallen too! Much respect and good thoughts being sent your way.
Sincerely,
Don
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.


Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1915
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2014, 07:44:39 PM »
Thanks you guys, as well as anyone else who may share similar sentiments later. I know it's awkward to talk about this kind of thing, and I didn't mean to force it on anyone, but I also don't mind talking about it a little bit from time to time, or even joking about the ugliest parts of it. (I'm a very open, honest person, and I realize a lot of people are freaked out by that, or just don't know how to deal with it.)

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2014, 08:03:10 PM »
Ry....Ok dude, you know I don`t ever want you to stop....and we both know that you can`t ever turn it off. But I don`t blame ya man...get the hell off this roller coaster an take care of your damn health dude. We are always going to be here.....

You and I have become pretty good friends off camera, but I think everyone here will agree with me when it comes to considering an alternative in relation to your prognosis/heath situation......don`t give up on trying to find someone around you that is passionate about pizza as you are and they can do the heavy lifting for you.
I understand you have stated that folks around there are pretty much jags in the bag....don`t give up searching  my man, you never know what is just around the corner.    8)

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Donjo911

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 624
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2014, 08:15:17 PM »
CB - I did a quick search and it looks like Waltertore is only about 15 minutes away by car.  Wish I was closer to be his proxy/su chef - I'd welcome (and could use) the education!
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2014, 08:23:27 PM »
CB - I did a quick search and it looks like Waltertore is only about 15 minutes away by car.  Wish I was closer to be his proxy/su chef - I'd welcome (and could use) the education!
I know...and R has visited there. I`m talking about on a much more personal level...local, like 3 doors down.  ;)   Kryptonite baby...Ryan needs a pizza freak girlfriend.....Ok, there...I said it.  :D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1915
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2014, 10:48:38 PM »
I understand you have stated that folks around there are pretty much jags in the bag....don`t give up searching  my man, you never know what is just around the corner.    8)

I haven't said that. I don't even know what it means. I may have said some nasty stuff privately about someone once, but that was when I was pretty pizzed off about what happened in some other life. I got nothing against anyone here; not even that person. And if I do, I'll forget within a couple days. (OK, I probably said a lot of nasty stuff about someone else, too. By the way, it's my short-term memory that's crap.)

Being banned from here may have been about the best thing that could have happened to me. Because beginning on February 1 of last year (after I'd been banned for a few months), I ate right, exercised my ass off, and did my physical therapy exercises regularly for five months. During this time I didn't think about pizza, nor did I eat any pizza. And I can't say for sure, but I feel like my condition got considerably better during those five months. I can't say I was reversing the MS, but I can say I was doing better in almost every way, and I may have been reversing the MS. That five-month period ended when I decided to have a party and make a bunch of pizzas out of a few different flours someone sent me from far, far away.

Walter is more like an hour from here. And I live in a neighborhood full of freaking old people, so it would probably be pretty hard to find a good, healthy assistant.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2014, 11:23:17 PM »
I'd love to keep making pizza and giving it to others, but my takers constantly flake out on me after I've already done all the work that has become very difficult for me. All this stuff keeps me from doing what I really should be doing, which is following a strict MS-related diet (Wahls diet) and devoting most of the rest of my time to physic
All I can do is go by what you say and then try to make suggestions dude.

Flakes are jags in the bag.  ;)
 















« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 11:24:57 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1196
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: Hydration revelation
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2014, 11:27:30 PM »
AR, I am really sorry to hear about your MS. That is a tough disease to handle.  I give you so much credit for the great passion you have shown even though you've been sick.  Hang in there and I really hope you will find a way to feel better.  Thanks for letting us know too. 

Best regards,

TinRoof


 

pizzapan