Author Topic: Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)  (Read 28110 times)

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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #75 on: August 23, 2011, 07:41:16 PM »
No, pizza was being referenced as a pie in media print before he was old enough to sing.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell


Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2011, 09:11:49 AM »
Kelly or anyone that is interested,

I don’t know how accurate this article is, but find it interesting how many pizzerias were listed from 1958 until 2010 in NY.

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2011/11/30/how-new-york-became-a-pizza-capital/

Page 10 in this article from The Italian Academy tells about how pizza became popular in the 50’s.  I had to chuckle when I read this part of the article:  :-D

A good starting point to observe how popular magazines dealt with Italian Food in the
1950s is the case of pizza. Before the war, most non-Italian Americans were completely unfamiliar
with it. A 1930 guide to dining out in New York defined it “a inch-thick, potato pan-cake, sprinkled
with Parmesan cheese and stewed tomatoes.”  In 1947, The New York Times Magazine introduced
readers to a recipe for making pizza at home, claiming that the Italian specialty, a favorite in New
York’s Little Italies, “could be as popular a snack as the hamburger, if only the Americans knew
more about it.”22 The prescience is astonishing, as a national market for pizza was created
overnight.

http://www.italianacademy.columbia.edu/publications/working_papers/2003_2004/paper_sp04_Cinotto.pdf

I think there are good references in the pdf document above that could be researched more.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 09:14:44 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2011, 07:07:03 AM »
Kelly,

I don’t know if you have found these articles or not.  It looks like the first article was on Slice, but I didn’t see if before.
Period Pies: A Look Back at New York Pizza Journalism
http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2011/04/period_pies_a_look.html
I had to click on the article to be able to view it.

Any words highlighted can only be previewed in the NY times.  These highlighted articles need to be bought to view them in their entirely. 

Another article called: Pizza, A Johnny-come-lately
http://www.jcs-group.com/fun/culinary/pizza.html

This article shows (pictures) how fresh frozen pizzas were made.  I don’t know if this was when they first made flash frozen pizzas or not.
http://brooklynology.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/post/2011/01/03/Big-Appetites-Little-Pizzas.aspx

Norma
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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2011, 11:58:48 AM »
Norma, I have all of those but the Johnny-Come-Lately article.  Thanks for adding another article to the mix!  ;D

Yes, pizza was nearly completely unknown outside of the culturally-tight enclaves of inner-cities until the late 1940s.

American GI's returning from WWII that were stationed in Southern Italy are often cited as the reason pizza exploded in the 1950s. From what I have read this is a very large reason, but not the full picture. Other articles also talk about the boom in the economy after WWII (also true) and that for the first time much more of the population had the means to travel overseas...and these people tried foods from foreign lands for the first time and by and large liked it, with Italy being one of the most popular travel destinations in those days for Americans (as it is now). Those people brought a hankerin' for pizza back from their travels.

It's amusing, and sad, that some of the mechanisms and changes which helped usher in the boom of pizzerias during the 1950's and 1960's immediately cheapened the product and began the downward slide of pizza into a cheaply constructed, commodity food of baneful quality (which is what nearly all "NY-Style" pizza, even in NYC, is these days...s*^t).

The bloom was definitely off the rose right off the bat.....the "synthetic cheese" versus the "real mozzarella" wars between American Cheese Makers and the Italians making fior-di-latte in the late 40's and early 50's being one example. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2011, 12:48:51 PM »
Kelly,

I am always interested in learning more about how NY style pizzas started in NY.  What you have told me in your last post has expanded my knowledge. 

I wanted to ask you a question if you know what type or brand of flours regular slice joints used back in the 50’s? That is something I have been wondering about for a long time.  I think they used lower protein flours, but don’t know if they did, or which ones they used.  Also do you know the bake times or temperatures they used back in the 50’s for the gas deck ovens?  I can’t find that information.

Thanks!  :)

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2012, 06:04:49 PM »
I saw this article on Scott’s Pizza Journal about maybe the first reference to Pizza as a Pie in NY. 

http://blog.scottspizzatours.com/post/18130417527/first-reference-to-pizza-as-pie

Norma
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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2012, 04:19:05 PM »
One day this decade I will tie all of the crap I have into an informal pizza "history of sorts".

Just re-read some stuff while on hold with a company today. One of the first direct mentions of pizza by the slice I found:

“When pizza is eaten, it generally fills that momentary urge for a quick snack. In this sense pizza is symbolic of the present Atomic and Aspirin Age, in which the necessity has arisen for conducting business on the run and the hustle and bustle of everyday living have caught up with the working man, hurrying home to the suburbs. A tasty triangle of pizza won’t spoil supper and it may avoid for the train traveler those uncomfortable gnawings in the stomach. All this was undreamed of by our first business-wise Italian immigrant of 50 years ago.” --6/14/1956
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #82 on: August 21, 2012, 06:52:42 AM »
One day this decade I will tie all of the crap I have into an informal pizza "history of sorts".

Just re-read some stuff while on hold with a company today. One of the first direct mentions of pizza by the slice I found:

“When pizza is eaten, it generally fills that momentary urge for a quick snack. In this sense pizza is symbolic of the present Atomic and Aspirin Age, in which the necessity has arisen for conducting business on the run and the hustle and bustle of everyday living have caught up with the working man, hurrying home to the suburbs. A tasty triangle of pizza won’t spoil supper and it may avoid for the train traveler those uncomfortable gnawings in the stomach. All this was undreamed of by our first business-wise Italian immigrant of 50 years ago.” --6/14/1956

Kelly,

Looking forward to the day when you find time to put all your information together.   ;D

What you found from 1956 is interesting too. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2012, 10:06:15 AM »
There is some additional information on the evolution of the NY style at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21667.0.html.

Peter


scott123

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2012, 04:44:37 PM »
If anyone has a larger version of this image:

http://www.firstpizza.com/history.html

I think it would be quite informative.

Offline CIZ28

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #85 on: November 19, 2012, 09:04:47 AM »
The thing I can't understand about the remake of Lombardi's is why are they making traditional Margherita pizza instead of the sauce-on-top style like most of the other originals that took that whole thing from Lombardi's in the first place? I recall reading even Patsy's did it that way before the neighborhood changed and in came the orange blanket for slices. IIRC, a true Lombardi's plain pie made by Gennaro and family was basically Totonno's pizza today with some oregano (not fresh basil) and possibly a little fresh garlic.
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Offline Tscarborough

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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #87 on: March 03, 2013, 12:23:58 PM »
Domenico Crolla posted this picture on facebook a little while ago.  This is what the caption says. Enjoying some New York pizza 1921.  

I asked Domenico Crolla where he found this picture.  I will see if he answers me.

I thought the picture was quite interesting.  They all sure look like they are enjoying their pizzas!   ;D

Norma
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Offline deb415611

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #88 on: March 03, 2013, 01:41:56 PM »
Norma - I saw that picture on facebook yesterday on a different site -- this is the caption that was with it "In 1921, early suffragettes often donned a bathing suit and ate pizza in large groups to annoy men...it was a custom at the time..."   
Deb

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #89 on: March 03, 2013, 01:59:10 PM »
Norma,

Aren't you in that photo?

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #90 on: March 03, 2013, 02:17:41 PM »
Norma,

Aren't you in that photo?

Peter
You should know Peter...isn't that you all the way to the right down front sitting in front of Norma!?!?  ;D
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #91 on: March 03, 2013, 02:34:23 PM »
You should know Peter...isn't that you all the way to the right down front sitting in front of Norma!?!?  ;D

Bob, no, that was my grandfather :-D.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2013, 02:41:10 PM »
Norma - I saw that picture on facebook yesterday on a different site -- this is the caption that was with it "In 1921, early suffragettes often donned a bathing suit and ate pizza in large groups to annoy men...it was a custom at the time..."   

Deb,

That was too funny what you posted about early suffragettes often donning a bathing suit and eating pizza in large groups to annoy men!   :-D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #93 on: March 03, 2013, 02:42:32 PM »
Norma,

Aren't you in that photo?

Peter

Peter,

Yep, I was that first lady on the left eating pizza.   :angel:

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #94 on: March 03, 2013, 02:43:46 PM »
You should know Peter...isn't that you all the way to the right down front sitting in front of Norma!?!?  ;D

Bob,

I really don't know Peter.

Norma
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scott123

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #95 on: March 03, 2013, 10:31:46 PM »
Those women need to put some clothes on. Have they no sense of decency?  It's scandalous, I say!

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2013, 10:38:46 PM »
Those women need to put some clothes on. Have they no sense of decency?  It's scandalous, I say!
Aww... 'cmon dadio...they hav'in fun eat'in pizza man!  ;D
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #97 on: March 04, 2013, 05:39:37 AM »
Those women need to put some clothes on. Have they no sense of decency?  It's scandalous, I say!

Scott,

Those ladies sure are decent compared to today's standards.   :-D

To post really where this picture came from this explains it more.

The photo was actually here.  http://www.junipergallery.com/node/1838  and titled this. July 31, 1921. Washington, D.C. "Pie eating contest at Tidal Basin bathing beach."  This was posted on this facebook page Saturday.  https://www.facebook.com/chickhistory

At least ladies did enjoy pizza back in 1921.  :P

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #98 on: July 31, 2014, 07:35:03 PM »
I saw this “Letter to the Editor” today in PMQ Magazine.  I found the letter interesting.  I contacted Mick's All-American Pub in Lititz, Pa. to see if Frank might want to talk to me.  Maybe Frank could share other memories he has, and also memories from his grandfather and father.  Since Frank lives so close to me hopefully he will contact me.  Mick's said they will tell Frank about me wanting to talk to him.  I always like to talk to a pizza maker that is old-school.  Maybe Frank could tell us more how pizza evolved in the US.

I would have posted the link to the PMQ digital Magazine but don't think it is digital yet.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2014, 09:32:52 AM »
The digital issue of PMQ Pizza Magazine is active now.  The photo I posted is from the letter on page 14 http://digital.pmq.com/pmqmag/august_2014#pg14 if anyone is interested.

Norma
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