Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA

[Pete-zza]

Peter,

With which size are you going then?

Mike,

I am thinking of coming up with examples using 30 pounds of flour and 32 pounds of flour. If our members deem those versions to be credible, or only one of them, then I, or the members themeselves, can use a thickness value of 0.07074 in the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with versions for different pizza sizes, such as 12", 14" and 16", since most people with standard home ovens may not be able to handle the 18" size. Or they may be able to use a combination of screen and pizza stone.

Of course, I invite Norma's comments, or anyone else's for that matter, before proceeding in case either of us missed something.

Peter

[Essen1]

Mike,

I am thinking of coming up with examples using 30 pounds of flour and 32 pounds of flour. If our members deem those versions to be credible, or only one of them, then I, or the members themeselves, can use a thickness value of 0.07074 in the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with versions for different pizza sizes, such as 12", 14" and 16", since most people with standard home ovens may not be able to handle the 18" size. Or they may be able to use a combination of screen and pizza stone.

Of course, I invite Norma's comments, or anyone else's for that matter, before proceeding in case either of us missed something.

Peter

Peter,

Very cool. Anxious to see what you will come up with.

I just got back from talking to my pizza guy. I asked him what size of PPF bags he can get his hands on and he said only the 25 & 50lb bags. He said I could also try the Mondako flour, which comes in 32 & 50  lb bags but is bleached.

[Pete-zza]

Very cool. Anxious to see what you will come up with.

I just got back from talking to my pizza guy. I asked him what size of PPF bags he can get his hands on and he said only the 25 & 50lb bags. He said I could also try the Mondako flour, which comes in 32 & 50  lb bags but is bleached.

Mike,

While I am at it, I can also come up with a version based on using a 25-pound bag of flour.

I also discussed the Mondako flour with the fellow I spoke with at Pendleton Mills in Idaho. I specifically asked him whether the wheat to make the Mondako flour came from Montana or the Dakotas since the Mondako name was a combination of Mon (for Montana) and Dako (for Dakota). He said that I had the combination right but that they no longer used flours from both of those states. The name was acquired from Fisher Mills, which Pendleton had acquired some time ago. As the Pendleton website notes at http://www.pfmills.com/mondako-flour-products-2.php, the Mondako flour is now a blend of "Northern winter and spring wheat". There is also a Mondako Special flour that is unbleached that seems to have the same specs as the Mondako flour, but it may not be as readily available as the Mondako flour. The Pendleton flours are sold through distributors and foodservice companies.

Peter

[Essen1]

Peter,

My guy also mentioned a Mondako Pizza blend but didn't really elaborate on that one. I guess it's one of those blends where you just have to add water and you're done.

Once I get the 50lbs PPF I'll post some pics if the bag should contain any info not discussed here or that we don't already know about.

Stick with your original plan for the 30 & 32 lb formula. I can scale it down to my needs later on. No need to put in the extra work although I appreciate the offer!

[Pete-zza]

Is it possible that Luigi buys 50# bags and reweighs the flour to fit his mixer? Would that explain the ripped bag by the mixer? 

Travis,

I scoured the Luigi video looking for a commercial scale capable of weighing 50-pound bags of flour but did not see any scale like that. If some of the flour from a 50-pound bag had been removed, leaving say, 25-32 pounds of flour, and then had the top of the bag ripped off, then I don't think you would have seen the stylized "Pe" on the flour bag in the red oval as shown in the video at 1:34. To see the logo, I think the flour bag would have had to be 25 pounds, 30 pounds or 32 pounds. As I mentioned earlier, in January of this year, Pendleton came up with a new name and look for the company and products (see http://www.pfmills.com/a-new-pendleton-flour-mills-news-4.php). That is why the current Pendleton flour bags look different than the one shown in the video.

I think what happened at Luigi's is that the DDD FoodNetwork segment on Pizzeria Luigi increased Luigi's business to the point where he perhaps had no choice but to go with 50-pound bags of flour so that he wouldn't have to make as many batches of dough. It would also have made sense to swith to IDY since it is easier to use than ADY. I don't think that such a change was because of allergic reactions. If Luigi didn't have a mixer with an 80-quart bowl capacity, then he had to go with such a mixer to be able to easily and conveniently handle 50-pound bags of flour. For my reverse engineering efforts, I had no choice but to go with the stuff shown in the video. However, that doesn't mean that any workable numbers that I might be able to come up with can't be translated to an application based on 50 pounds of flour. Of course, if Luigi changed other things, then that changes the ballgame and is not something that I can deal with.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

My guy also mentioned a Mondako Pizza blend but didn't really elaborate on that one. I guess it's one of those blends where you just have to add water and you're done.

Mike,

I didn't discuss the pizza flour blends with the fellow at Pendleton's because I wanted to be sure I exhausted everything on the Power flour, which is the focus of our efforts to try to reverse engineer what Luigi did in the video . However, I have long been aware of the Pendleton pizza flour blends because of their great popularity among pizza operators on the west coast. You are correct that they require only the addition of water, as the Pendleton website notes at http://www.pfmills.com/complete-pizza-mixes-pages-5.php.

Peter

[Essen1]

Mike,

I didn't discuss the pizza flour blends with the fellow at Pendleton's because I wanted to be sure I exhausted everything on the Power flour, which is the focus of our efforts to try to reverse engineer what Luigi did in the video . However, I have long been aware of the Pendleton pizza flour blends because of their great popularity among pizza operators on the west coast. You are correct that they require only the addition of water, as the Pendleton website notes at http://www.pfmills.com/complete-pizza-mixes-pages-5.php.

Peter

Peter,

I didn't try to confuse anyone or move the attention away from the Power flour, I just threw the Mondako reference in there because my pizza guy mentioned it.  

Anyway, on my way home I thought about those little bowls of salt, sugar and yeast and realized that I have similar bowls of almost the same size. So I went and did a comparison of the bowls, Luigi's and mine. I poured an amount of sea salt in one of them and tried to get as close to the amount shown in Luigi's video. Then I weight the amount an it was 300gr. Since I think my bowls are a tad deeper, my guesstimate is that the amount of salt hovers around 300 - 350gr. (10.6oz - 12.3oz) If Luigi really used two of those bowls of salt, as you suspect, then that would obviously double that amount but I'm can't be sure.

Another thing is the way the video was edited. as I mentioned before, i have my doubt that the workflow is shown as it really happens normally. I think I got proof of that now from the frames I was able to capture with the GOM Player I use. I slowed the video down to almost super slo-mo, the voices were all garbled and both guys sounded like robots from a bad 1950's science fiction flick but I got two frames that actually show that the the video was edited not in the way the real mixing regimen happens, I believe. It's evident when you look at the bowls on that small table and watch the video at normal speed. The bowl behind Fieri's hand is the one that contained the yeast and looks empty, the one in front must have been the one that held the sugar(?) and it's empty but then, all of a sudden, one of them is full again with either sugar or salt.

Curious as to what you think.

Pics below show first the bowl comparison and the other the Off-workflow frames...

[norma427]

Of course, I invite Norma's comments, or anyone else's for that matter, before proceeding in case either of us missed something.

Peter

Peter,

I have been trying to follow this thread today, but my mother is having problems, and also I am trying to get ready for the weekend thing at market.  It has been a hectic day.  I find all the posts interesting, as much as I could follow them.

I don’t think you or other members missed anything.  I just wonder really what those bags of flour weigh that are under the table beside the oven.  I can’t tell by just looking at the table, but know my table that I use to opened my dough balls has 50 lb. bags of flour stored on a shelf something like Luigi’s flour is stored.  I don’t think it would be any help, but I could measure my table that is at market tomorrow, to see what length my table is that stores my 50 lb. bags of flour.  I would think those bags are 50 lbs., but can’t be sure, because I don’t know the width of Luigi’s oven.  I did measure my mixing bowl at market for my 20 qt. mixer and had planned to see how much flour it could hold, but forgot where I put the measurements, and also forgot to see how much flour my 20 qt. mixer can hold.

Will be interested in seeing what kind of formulas you set-forth.

Norma

[Essen1]

Just did some quick calculations.

Let's say Luigi used the 32lb bag of Power flour that would amount to 14515 grams. If he uses two bowls of salt as Peter suggested, and my guesstimate is somewhat correct regarding the bowl sizes, it would come to perhaps 700 grams maximum and would equate to 4.8% of salt. If he uses, let's say 350 grams of salt, it would equate to 2.4% which seems in line with most formulations I have seen for a NY-style pie.

This reverse-engineering project is exciting! 

[Essen1]

Peter,

I have been trying to follow this thread today, but my mother is having problems, and also I am trying to get ready for the weekend thing at market.  It has been a hectic day.  I find all the posts interesting, as much as I could follow them.

I don’t think you or other members missed anything.  I just wonder really what those bags of flour weigh that are under the table beside the oven.  I can’t tell by just looking at the table, but know my table that I use to opened my dough balls has 50 lb. bags of flour stored on a shelf something like Luigi’s flour is stored.  I don’t think it would be any help, but I could measure my table that is at market tomorrow, to see what length my table is that stores my 50 lb. bags of flour.  I would think those bags are 50 lbs., but can’t be sure, because I don’t know the width of Luigi’s oven.  I did measure my mixing bowl at market for my 20 qt. mixer and had planned to see how much flour it could hold, but forgot where I put the measurements, and also forgot to see how much flour my 20 qt. mixer can hold.

Will be interested in seeing what kind of formulas you set-forth.

Norma

Norma,

I'll be getting a 50lb bag of flour on Saturday. If you can measure your table, I'll give you the corresponding measurements of the 50lb bag and we'll find out if those are actually 50 lbs bags we're seeing in the video.

[norma427]

Norma,

I'll be getting a 50lb bag of flour on Saturday. If you can measure your table, I'll give you the corresponding measurements of the 50lb bag and we'll find out if those are actually 50 lbs bags we're seeing in the video.

Mike,

I will try to remember to measure my table tomorrow.  I am not sure if my table is the same size as Luigi's table.  His table might be bigger than mine.  I will take a picture of the bottom shelf on my table tomorrow if i remember. 

Norma

[Essen1]

Mike,

I will try to remember to measure my table tomorrow.  I am not sure if my table is the same size as Luigi's table.  His table might be bigger than mine.  I will take a picture of the bottom shelf on my table tomorrow if i remember. 

Norma

That's great! I don't think a few inches here and there will make a huge difference. It will still be in the same neighborhood.

Repeat after me "Remember to measure the table,...remember to measure the table,...remember to measure the table..." 

[Pete-zza]

Mike,

Please look at the bowls on the table and the ones used when making the sauce and tell me whether they are the same size in your opinion. Look at the bowl sizes in relation to the size of Guy's and Luigi's hands, for example.

Peter

[Essen1]

Mike,

Please look at the bowls on the table and the ones used when making the sauce and tell me whether they are the same size in your opinion. Look at the bowl sizes in relation to the size of Guy's and Luigi's hands, for example.

Peter

Peter,

I did.

I'm not that far off.

[Pete-zza]

Mike,

I mean whether all of the bowls used in the video are the same size in your opinion.

Peter

[Essen1]

Mike,

I mean whether all of the bowls used in the video are the same size in your opinion.

Peter

I don't know if they are. However, I think the ones used for the salt and oregano are the same size. Look at Luigi's hands. You'll see it's not a smallish bowl and he holds it with two hands.

I also measured mine: 6" diam. x 1.75" height. The bottom is 3.75" diam. if that matters.

[norma427]

Mike, Peter, or other members that might want to make comments,

When watching the video at around 0.43 and other places in the video at Luigi’s, the dough trays are on top of the table where the bags of flour are stored underneath.  I would think the dough trays are 18”x26” something like these dough trays.  http://www.therestaurantstore.com/fourth2030/products/Pizza-Dough-Pans-and-Pizza-Dough-Boxes.html   If the dough trays are 18”x26” does that help anyone determine what size the flours bags are, or help to know if the flour bags are 50 lbs.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

When watching the video at around 0.43 and other places in the video at Luigi’s, the dough trays are on top of the table where the bags of flour are stored underneath.  I would think the dough trays are 18”x26” something like these dough trays.  http://www.therestaurantstore.com/fourth2030/products/Pizza-Dough-Pans-and-Pizza-Dough-Boxes.html   If the dough trays are 18”x26” does that help anyone determine what size the flours bags are, or help to know if the flour bags are 50 lbs.

Norma,

That is good thinking.

I personally think that there is more than one size flour bag shown in the video. For example, if you look at the image at 0:43 in the video as you mentioned, the table seems to abut the oven and the long dimension of the flour bag seems to be about the same as the long diimension of the dough boxes or maybe even a bit less. Also, the flour bag does not seem to have a lot of depth. Now, if you go to the image at 2:28, the flour bags look bigger with a long dimension that appears to be greater than the long dimension of the dough boxes.

In the final analysis, I don't know that it will really matter all that much what the flour bag sizes are. It may mean more work trying to eliminate things by the process of elimination, which may mean people with the Power flour having to do more experiments, but that is the price you have to pay given what the video shows and what we can otherwise learn from our own investigations. What is important is the quantities of ingredients in the various bowls used to make the dough shown in the video. If you have a pretty good idea of those quantities, and they are legitimate and not staged quantities, then you can come up with dough formulations for all four bag sizes, 50 pounds, 32 pounds, 30 pounds and 25 pounds. It would then be those four dough formulations that would have to be tested to find the best one. It would be nice to rule out some of the bag sizes, as by trying to identify the mixer bowl size and the amount of dough in the mixer bowl, and so on, but until then we are stuck with the four options. We can arm wrestle each other over bag size all day long and not get an answer that will satisfy everyone.

I plan this morning to send an email to Pendleton to see if they will tell me the dimensions for the four sizes of flour bags mentioned above. I'm curious to see how much they differ.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I agree with you about the flour size bags looking different in different frames in the video.  I also agree, in the final analysis, it really doesn’t matter what size the bags of flour are, but it makes it harder to try and set-forth formulas. Even the sizes of the small bowls for the other ingredients are hard to see if they really are the same ones.  If it would be any help, I could fill my 20 qt. mixer bowl at market today with flour, to see how much flour my mixer bowl holds. I don’t think that will really help though.

Norma

Mike,

I don’t know how you post frames of Luigi’s videos, but I and maybe other members would be interested in how you do that. 

Norma

[Essen1]

Mike,

I don’t know how you post frames of Luigi’s videos, but I and maybe other members would be interested in how you do that. 

Norma

Norma,

I use this media player: http://www.gomlab.com/eng/GMP_Introduction.html