Author Topic: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA  (Read 89710 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #150 on: September 01, 2011, 11:01:19 PM »
Norma,

I'll be getting a 50lb bag of flour on Saturday. If you can measure your table, I'll give you the corresponding measurements of the 50lb bag and we'll find out if those are actually 50 lbs bags we're seeing in the video.



Mike,

I will try to remember to measure my table tomorrow.  I am not sure if my table is the same size as Luigi's table.  His table might be bigger than mine.  I will take a picture of the bottom shelf on my table tomorrow if i remember. 

Norma


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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #151 on: September 01, 2011, 11:05:38 PM »
Mike,

I will try to remember to measure my table tomorrow.  I am not sure if my table is the same size as Luigi's table.  His table might be bigger than mine.  I will take a picture of the bottom shelf on my table tomorrow if i remember. 

Norma

That's great! I don't think a few inches here and there will make a huge difference. It will still be in the same neighborhood.

Repeat after me "Remember to measure the table,...remember to measure the table,...remember to measure the table..."  ;D
Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #152 on: September 01, 2011, 11:21:13 PM »
Mike,

Please look at the bowls on the table and the ones used when making the sauce and tell me whether they are the same size in your opinion. Look at the bowl sizes in relation to the size of Guy's and Luigi's hands, for example.

Peter

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #153 on: September 01, 2011, 11:36:52 PM »
Mike,

Please look at the bowls on the table and the ones used when making the sauce and tell me whether they are the same size in your opinion. Look at the bowl sizes in relation to the size of Guy's and Luigi's hands, for example.

Peter

Peter,

I did.

I'm not that far off.

Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #154 on: September 01, 2011, 11:39:42 PM »
Mike,

I mean whether all of the bowls used in the video are the same size in your opinion.

Peter

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #155 on: September 01, 2011, 11:59:07 PM »
Mike,

I mean whether all of the bowls used in the video are the same size in your opinion.

Peter

I don't know if they are. However, I think the ones used for the salt and oregano are the same size. Look at Luigi's hands. You'll see it's not a smallish bowl and he holds it with two hands.

I also measured mine: 6" diam. x 1.75" height. The bottom is 3.75" diam. if that matters.



Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #156 on: September 02, 2011, 07:31:23 AM »
Mike, Peter, or other members that might want to make comments,

When watching the video at around 0.43 and other places in the video at Luigi’s, the dough trays are on top of the table where the bags of flour are stored underneath.  I would think the dough trays are 18”x26” something like these dough trays.  http://www.therestaurantstore.com/fourth2030/products/Pizza-Dough-Pans-and-Pizza-Dough-Boxes.html   If the dough trays are 18”x26” does that help anyone determine what size the flours bags are, or help to know if the flour bags are 50 lbs.

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #157 on: September 02, 2011, 08:34:26 AM »
When watching the video at around 0.43 and other places in the video at Luigi’s, the dough trays are on top of the table where the bags of flour are stored underneath.  I would think the dough trays are 18”x26” something like these dough trays.  http://www.therestaurantstore.com/fourth2030/products/Pizza-Dough-Pans-and-Pizza-Dough-Boxes.html   If the dough trays are 18”x26” does that help anyone determine what size the flours bags are, or help to know if the flour bags are 50 lbs.

Norma,

That is good thinking.

I personally think that there is more than one size flour bag shown in the video. For example, if you look at the image at 0:43 in the video as you mentioned, the table seems to abut the oven and the long dimension of the flour bag seems to be about the same as the long diimension of the dough boxes or maybe even a bit less. Also, the flour bag does not seem to have a lot of depth. Now, if you go to the image at 2:28, the flour bags look bigger with a long dimension that appears to be greater than the long dimension of the dough boxes.

In the final analysis, I don't know that it will really matter all that much what the flour bag sizes are. It may mean more work trying to eliminate things by the process of elimination, which may mean people with the Power flour having to do more experiments, but that is the price you have to pay given what the video shows and what we can otherwise learn from our own investigations. What is important is the quantities of ingredients in the various bowls used to make the dough shown in the video. If you have a pretty good idea of those quantities, and they are legitimate and not staged quantities, then you can come up with dough formulations for all four bag sizes, 50 pounds, 32 pounds, 30 pounds and 25 pounds. It would then be those four dough formulations that would have to be tested to find the best one. It would be nice to rule out some of the bag sizes, as by trying to identify the mixer bowl size and the amount of dough in the mixer bowl, and so on, but until then we are stuck with the four options. We can arm wrestle each other over bag size all day long and not get an answer that will satisfy everyone.

I plan this morning to send an email to Pendleton to see if they will tell me the dimensions for the four sizes of flour bags mentioned above. I'm curious to see how much they differ.

Peter

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #158 on: September 02, 2011, 09:27:45 AM »
Peter,

I agree with you about the flour size bags looking different in different frames in the video.  I also agree, in the final analysis, it really doesn’t matter what size the bags of flour are, but it makes it harder to try and set-forth formulas. Even the sizes of the small bowls for the other ingredients are hard to see if they really are the same ones.  If it would be any help, I could fill my 20 qt. mixer bowl at market today with flour, to see how much flour my mixer bowl holds. I don’t think that will really help though.

Norma

Mike,

I don’t know how you post frames of Luigi’s videos, but I and maybe other members would be interested in how you do that. 

Norma


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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #159 on: September 02, 2011, 12:01:11 PM »

Mike,

I don’t know how you post frames of Luigi’s videos, but I and maybe other members would be interested in how you do that. 

Norma

Norma,

I use this media player: http://www.gomlab.com/eng/GMP_Introduction.html

Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #160 on: September 02, 2011, 12:16:07 PM »

I personally think that there is more than one size flour bag shown in the video.

I agree that it isn't really that important what size they are, but I wanted to put my last .02 in on the matter.  I contend that the lonely single bag under the table is a 25 or a 32# bag.  In another sequence the storage table is full of 50# bags.  The lonely small bag is the one that ends up being used at the mixer.  I say that they do use 50# bags for the mixer and make two 25# flour batches from a single bag. 

The video is so out of sequence.  For example the top of the flour sack is seen on the table next to the salt bowls.  When Guy starts talking about gluten is when Luigi is just starting to tear the bag.  I'm still trying to get some power flour.
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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #161 on: September 02, 2011, 12:44:19 PM »
Peter,

Is that the same bucket with the sauce in it that Luigi uses to pour the water in? It looks like it has the same rim, the same indentations on the side of the rim, too. but the sauce bucket has some measurements on it.

If it's the same one, take a look at the screen capture where Luigi pours the water in. I enhanced it a bit but it looks like the water is almost at the rim and he keeps pouring. I can't really make out the numbers on the bucket but maybe someone else can...

Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #162 on: September 02, 2011, 12:48:40 PM »
I don't know if they are. However, I think the ones used for the salt and oregano are the same size. Look at Luigi's hands. You'll see it's not a smallish bowl and he holds it with two hands.

I also measured mine: 6" diam. x 1.75" height. The bottom is 3.75" diam. if that matters.

Mike,

I thought that the bowls on the table to the left of the mixer were smaller than the ones used to make the sauce. However, I concluded that camera angles and distance from the objects might make it difficult to compare sizes and dimensions and maybe even distort some of the values. So, I decided that we needed a better system. I think I found it.

This is what I did. I went to a local supermarket and purchased a one-gallon jug of Crystal Geyser spring water. You will note that the water jug, the cap and the bowls appear simultaneously in several frames of the video, especially the cap and the bowls. I measured the width of one side of the water jug and it is 5". In fact, all sides are 5". The cap is 1.5" in diameter. I then went to several frames in the video (I would say at least six or seven frames) where the water jug, cap and bowls appeared (there were a lot more frames where both the cap and bowls were together) and, using the zoom feature of my computer, I blew up the images by 400%. I then took measurements off of my monitor, calculated certain ratios, and using the actual values for the water jug and cap, I concluded that the measuring bowls on the table were 5" in diameter (4.999999+", to be exact). I got the best set of numbers using the bottle cap and the bowls rather than the water jug itself and the bowls. There were fewer joint appearances of the water jug and the bowls and, while the sides of the jug are square, the corners are rounded. So, I wasn't sure that I got the best measurements for the water jug. Also, the cap and bowls were often right next to each other.

I then decided to go through the same exercise as discussed above but with the bottle cap, a bowl and the mixer all in the same frame. I wanted to see if I could determine the size of the mixer bowl. A good frame for this purpose is the one at 1:42. From my measurements from that frame, I calculated a diameter of 21.56". The diameter of a Hobart 80-quart mixer is 21 11/16". However, I couldn't get a good reading of the height of the mixer bowl to confirm the bowl size. So, while I would tend to guess that Luigi is using a Hobart mixer with an 80-cup mixer bowl, I am open to a better answer.

The measuring container that I was using to weigh items is about 4" in diameter. As time went on and I learned more about what was actually happening in the video, I could see that my numbers were on the low side. I plan to wrap a ring of cardboard around my container to increase it to 5" in diameter and re-do my weighings. I know my new weighings should be better even if they aren't perfect. I am trying to just get into the ballpark.

In your case, Mike, it looks like your bowl is of a good enough shape to do some weighings but you may want to mark off the 5" mark if you agree with my analysis. When I saw your photos next to the ones with Guy, I suspected that your numbers couldn't be right because you were wearing a different shirt than Guy :-D.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 01:06:34 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #163 on: September 02, 2011, 01:13:11 PM »
I agree that it isn't really that important what size they are, but I wanted to put my last .02 in on the matter.  I contend that the lonely single bag under the table is a 25 or a 32# bag.  In another sequence the storage table is full of 50# bags.  The lonely small bag is the one that ends up being used at the mixer.  I say that they do use 50# bags for the mixer and make two 25# flour batches from a single bag. 

The video is so out of sequence.  For example the top of the flour sack is seen on the table next to the salt bowls.  When Guy starts talking about gluten is when Luigi is just starting to tear the bag.  I'm still trying to get some power flour.

Gene,

Your explanation is as plausible as any other I have seen in this thread. I will give you at least $.25 to keep posting at a 2 cent level.

I also agree with you, and with Mike and Norma, that there are a lot of things in the video that are out of order. I saw it in the way that things appeared and disappeared from the table next to the mixer and in the times on the clock on the wall.

Peter

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #164 on: September 02, 2011, 01:31:11 PM »
Is that the same bucket with the sauce in it that Luigi uses to pour the water in? It looks like it has the same rim, the same indentations on the side of the rim, too. but the sauce bucket has some measurements on it.

Mike,

I thought that the water container that first appears at 0:43 in the video ends up on the rack at 1:10. I was hoping to be able to determine the diameter of the container used to make the sauce to be able to determine the size of the bowls, such as the bowl shown, for example, at 4:17, but I couldn't read the markings to be able to get an idea as to the diameter of the sauce container.

Peter

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #165 on: September 02, 2011, 02:25:52 PM »
Mike,

I thought that the water container that first appears at 0:43 in the video ends up on the rack at 1:10. I was hoping to be able to determine the diameter of the container used to make the sauce to be able to determine the size of the bowls, such as the bowl shown, for example, at 4:17, but I couldn't read the markings to be able to get an idea as to the diameter of the sauce container.

Peter

Peter,

After comparing the buckets again, I think the sauce bucket is bigger than the other one. Regarding the markings of the sauce bucket at 4:17 I think the first number on the left says 7.0L but it's tough to make out because there's some sauce splattered on from behind.

Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #166 on: September 02, 2011, 02:26:53 PM »
Mike,

I thought that the bowls on the table to the left of the mixer were smaller than the ones used to make the sauce. However, I concluded that camera angles and distance from the objects might make it difficult to compare sizes and dimensions and maybe even distort some of the values. So, I decided that we needed a better system. I think I found it.

This is what I did. I went to a local supermarket and purchased a one-gallon jug of Crystal Geyser spring water. You will note that the water jug, the cap and the bowls appear simultaneously in several frames of the video, especially the cap and the bowls. I measured the width of one side of the water jug and it is 5". In fact, all sides are 5". The cap is 1.5" in diameter. I then went to several frames in the video (I would say at least six or seven frames) where the water jug, cap and bowls appeared (there were a lot more frames where both the cap and bowls were together) and, using the zoom feature of my computer, I blew up the images by 400%. I then took measurements off of my monitor, calculated certain ratios, and using the actual values for the water jug and cap, I concluded that the measuring bowls on the table were 5" in diameter (4.999999+", to be exact). I got the best set of numbers using the bottle cap and the bowls rather than the water jug itself and the bowls. There were fewer joint appearances of the water jug and the bowls and, while the sides of the jug are square, the corners are rounded. So, I wasn't sure that I got the best measurements for the water jug. Also, the cap and bowls were often right next to each other.

I then decided to go through the same exercise as discussed above but with the bottle cap, a bowl and the mixer all in the same frame. I wanted to see if I could determine the size of the mixer bowl. A good frame for this purpose is the one at 1:42. From my measurements from that frame, I calculated a diameter of 21.56". The diameter of a Hobart 80-quart mixer is 21 11/16". However, I couldn't get a good reading of the height of the mixer bowl to confirm the bowl size. So, while I would tend to guess that Luigi is using a Hobart mixer with an 80-cup mixer bowl, I am open to a better answer.

The measuring container that I was using to weigh items is about 4" in diameter. As time went on and I learned more about what was actually happening in the video, I could see that my numbers were on the low side. I plan to wrap a ring of cardboard around my container to increase it to 5" in diameter and re-do my weighings. I know my new weighings should be better even if they aren't perfect. I am trying to just get into the ballpark.

In your case, Mike, it looks like your bowl is of a good enough shape to do some weighings but you may want to mark off the 5" mark if you agree with my analysis. When I saw your photos next to the ones with Guy, I suspected that your numbers couldn't be right because you were wearing a different shirt than Guy :-D.

Peter

Peter,

Good stuff! You must have worked in a forensics lab before  ;D
Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #167 on: September 02, 2011, 05:07:13 PM »
I'm still trying to get some power flour.

JD,

I'm sure you have a favorite pizza joint in your area. Do what I did and ask the pizza operator to order you a bag. My guy was extremely helpful and knowledgeable about different cheeses, flours, etc.

As a matter of fact, I just got back from paying him and will be picking the flour and cheese up this evening.
Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #168 on: September 02, 2011, 05:09:29 PM »
All you guys,

I sure don’t know how this will help, but I did take pictures and measurements of where my 50 lb. bags of flour are stored, and also approximate measurements of one 50 lb. bag of KASL.  

The shelf were my flour is stored is 22” in width and 29 ¼” in length.  The approximate size of my 50 lb. bag of KASL (because it was full) was 28” in length and 18” in width.  I moved my bag of KASL around two ways.  

All of you guys are doing a great job trying to get this thread figured out!   ;D

Mike,  Thanks for telling me how you take pictures of frames.  That is great information to have!  :)

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #169 on: September 02, 2011, 05:32:48 PM »
All you guys,

I sure don’t know how this will help, but I did take pictures and measurements of where my 50 lb. bags of flour are stored, and also approximate measurements of one 50 lb. bag of KASL.  

The shelf were my flour is stored is 22” in width and 29 ¼” in length.  The approximate size of my 50 lb. bag of KASL (because it was full) was 28” in length and 18” in width.  I moved my bag of KASL around two ways.  

All of you guys are doing a great job trying to get this thread figured out!   ;D

Mike,  Thanks for telling me how you take pictures of frames.  That is great information to have!  :)

Norma

Norma,

I do think that the bags you see on the lower shelf of the table are the 50lb kind.

The GOM player is free to download. Try it out. It's great for slow-motion playback.
Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #170 on: September 02, 2011, 05:39:24 PM »
Norma,

I do think that the bags you see on the lower shelf of the table are the 50lb kind.

The GOM player is free to download. Try it out. It's great for slow-motion playback.

Mike,

I probably will download the GOM player in a few days.  You really posted great frames from having the GOM player!  :) Those frames have helped this thread a lot.

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #171 on: September 02, 2011, 09:43:44 PM »
Got the flour and the cheese.

I don't know much about the Saputo Golden State select but my pizza guy told me that it is very much a Grande-quality cheese, which is pretty much what Scott R said here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8314.msg71748.html#msg71748

I don't know if Scott was talking about the Golden State label or if he meant a different one.

Either way, my pizza guy kept mentioning cheese from F&A Dairy but I guess he got me this instead.
Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #172 on: September 03, 2011, 08:49:45 AM »
Using several frames in the Luigi video, I did some more forensics work and I believe that the dimensions of the bowls on the table are as follows:

Top diameter: 5"
Bottom diameter: 2.5"-2.7"
Sides (measured on the slope): 1.5"

I couldn't get more precise measurements of the bottom diameter because of the glare in the video. Using 2.6" might be a good compromise.

Peter

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #173 on: September 03, 2011, 12:44:31 PM »
Peter,

Although we don't have any concrete numbers on the Luigi dough I gave the flour a little test run at 65% hydration.

I don't know, Peter...the dough didn't look like anything what you see in the video. I mean I was able to work with it, but it was much stickier than what you see in the video, especially the scene where they weighing and balling the dough.

I tried to follow Luigi's way of mixing as close as possible but I let the mixer do its thing on Speed 2 for only 8 minutes instead of the 15 minutes Luigi uses because I didn't want to over-knead the dough.

Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #174 on: September 03, 2011, 01:02:46 PM »
Mike,

Did you add the rest of the ingredients also, such as the salt, yeast and sugar? Also, it is possible that in a home setting using a standard home grade mixer you may need to cut back on the hydration. Or you might try sifting the flour and add it gradually to the water to improve its hydration. It is also possible that your flour is very fresh and has a high moisture content that didn't have a chance to diminish while in transit and storage before you got it.

I also didn't see anything in the video on the speeds used for the 15 minute mix/knead. You can see the recommended mix/knead protocol in the post at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7953.msg68396.html#msg68396. Also, many of the Hobart mixers, including the two models that I mentioned earlier, have 15 minute timers. I believe that Luigi used the timer. For example, you will see Luigi playing around with the timer at 1:41 in the video. At 1:45, he pushes the Start button.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 02:02:35 PM by Pete-zza »