Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA

[Fast996]

Mike, the Power flour is one of the best unbromated flours I've ever seen, but I've always felt that as you increase the protein, you also increase the potential for tough crusts when cooled.  At least, you do with 14% flours. 13.5% still seems a bit high to me, so I'd like to see what can be achieved with a blend.

Have you witnessed any toughness with the Power flour?

I use both Pendleton flours Power & Big Spring they are the best flours I have baked with.The rise and taste is excellent.You can see my pizza in the post here.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16005.msg157291.html#msg157291

I will say I prefer the Power softer as you say over the Big Spring .

Gary

[Essen1]

Peter,

The dough management I used for this Luigi’s attempt was the dough was mixed on Sunday for Tuesday. (I know Luigi’s dough is supposed to be only fermented for one day, but from my other attempt, I didn’t think there was any flavor in the crust, so that is why I did a two day cold ferment.)  My final dough temperature was 76.2 degrees F.  The dough was balled and went right into the refrigerator after the dough was balled.  The dough was left to warm up at about 72 degrees F for 1 ½ hrs.  The dough ball did have a bubble on the top of the dough ball even before I left it warm-up, but the bubble got bigger while it was warming up.  I did rehydrate the ADY in a portion of the total formula water.  The bake temperature was about 525 degrees F for about 5 minutes.

Norma

Norma,

Wow! That looks like one of the most authentic-looking NY-style slices I have seen on here.

How would you compare the PPF to other flours you have used and how was the texture of the crust?

[Essen1]

Mike same question for you. Your mallet finger, how long did it take to recover and what actions did you take and is yours a full recovery?

PE101,

What happened to me was that I broke the knuckle on my right pinkie (it got pushed in and the docs had to pull out the finger in order to re-align the bones) and put it in what I call a "fist wrap" for the lack of a better term. Had it for about 7 weeks, with the lone digit being the thumb sticking out. I only had six fingers to work with back then.

Afterwards, I had to perform some exercises on a daily basis to get the tendons and ligs going again.

So, consider yourself lucky that you only have it in a mallet.  

And yes, it was a full recovery. No problems.

[norma427]

Norma,

Wow! That looks like one of the most authentic-looking NY-style slices I have seen on here.

How would you compare the PPF to other flours you have used and how was the texture of the crust?

Mike,

Thanks for the kind comment about the Luigi’s attempt.    So far, I haven’t really noticed a big difference in the Power flour, but have only done one experiment.  The only thing I noticed was the dough accepted the higher hydration better.  The texture of the crust was a little crunchy on the rim, and bottom crust.  The texture of the crumb seemed good.  My attempt could have been darker in the rim and bottom crust though.

Do you have different reasons for liking the Power flour more, in comparison to other flours you have tried?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I went back to the original DDD video at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PRA_BJYvTc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PRA_BJYvTc</a>

to see how your latest Luigi clone pizza compared with those shown in the video. I think that your Luigi clone looks like those in the video, at least in terms of look and feel (pizza size, crust thickness, the crunch when cutting, etc.), but with less crust color at the rim and bottom of the pizza. According to the video, Luigi uses an oven temperature of around 525-550 degrees F. In your case, should you decide to make another Luigi clone, you might try using a lower bake temperature and a longer bake time simply as a test to see if you get more crust color while retaining the usual characteristics of a NY style pizza. If that doesn't work, then it is possible that you need a longer fermentation time to release more sugars from the flour to contribute to more color. You might recall that Jet_deck (Gene) observed that Luigi might have been placing the boxes of dough balls near the oven to accelerate the fermentation process (and that the guys at Bronx appeared to be doing the same). Apart from the possibility of adding more sugar if the above measures do not work, I did not see anything obvious in what you did to explain why you did not get more crust color. It looked to me that you did everything right.

Peter

[PizzaEater101]

PE101,

What happened to me was that I broke the knuckle on my right pinkie (it got pushed in and the docs had to pull out the finger in order to re-align the bones) and put it in what I call a "fist wrap" for the lack of a better term. Had it for about 7 weeks, with the lone digit being the thumb sticking out. I only had six fingers to work with back then.

Afterwards, I had to perform some exercises on a daily basis to get the tendons and ligs going again.

So, consider yourself lucky that you only have it in a mallet.  

And yes, it was a full recovery. No problems.

Mike, thanks for the info on your injury.  You are right, I got off easy compared to you.  I am just glad I have mallet finger and nothing broken like you did.  I'll be fine, I just have to deal with it for 6 weeks.

[PizzaEater101]

I just thought about the last time I played basketball and am embarrassed to say that it was at least 15 years ago.  I'm not really recalling all the details- just that the worst jam was excruciatingly painful and that it hurt for a day or two.  No residual issues. I've also had other gentle finger jams that hurt for a few seconds and then went away.

Btw, have you looked into voice recognition software?  I've played around with Dragon Naturally Speaking and thought it did a pretty good job after just a little training.  Windows Vista and 7 are also supposed to have voice recognition capabilities.

scott, thanks for the suggestion of Dragon or other voice software.  I had not thought of that but should have because when I worked in desktop support I had installed it for people who had broken their arm but needed to type.   I should have thought of it but did not.  I will make do with typing now, I have gotten better but if my finger gets worse and have to keep it in the splint past the six weeks I am supposed to then I might try out some voice software. 

[PizzaEater101]

Norma, your results look great.  I am not from NYC nor have I been there but from pictures of real NY pizza and from the NY style pizza I have eaten, yours looks like a spot on clone.   I think Luigi would be proud of you! 

If I did not know any better I would say you have taken the DNA from a real NY pizza and made a clone of the NY pizza and presented it to us.  I have heard of clones of sheep but pizzas? 

In all seriousness you did a fine job.  Once my finger is all healed up I will try to do a Luigi clone with all the great info you and everyone has presented us in this discussion on the subject. 

[norma427]

Norma,

I went back to the original DDD video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PRA_BJYvTc to see how your latest Luigi clone pizza compared with those shown in the video. I think that your Luigi clone looks like those in the video, at least in terms of look and feel (pizza size, crust thickness, the crunch when cutting, etc.), but with less crust color at the rim and bottom of the pizza. According to the video, Luigi uses an oven temperature of around 525-550 degrees F. In your case, should you decide to make another Luigi clone, you might try using a lower bake temperature and a longer bake time simply as a test to see if you get more crust color while retaining the usual characteristics of a NY style pizza. If that doesn't work, then it is possible that you need a longer fermentation time to release more sugars from the flour to contribute to more color. You might recall that Jet_deck (Gene) observed that Luigi might have been placing the boxes of dough balls near the oven to accelerate the fermentation process (and that the guys at Bronx appeared to be doing the same). Apart from the possibility of adding more sugar if the above measures do not work, I did not see anything obvious in what you did to explain why you did not get more crust color. It looked to me that you did everything right.

Peter

Peter,

I do plan on trying another Luigi’s clone attempt next week, since I have the Power Flour now.  Thanks for telling me what I should try next to get better rim and bottom pizza color.  Do you think I should try the same formula again, or try one of the other formulas you posted at Reply 177 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg151870.html#msg151870  If you do want me to try one of the other formulas you posted, which would be your choice to try and why?  I do remember Gene observing the possibility of Luigi’s and Bronx pizza putting the dough closer to the ovens for better fermentation.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Now that you have had a chance to use the Power flour and have tasted the finished crust using that flour, is there a particular duration of cold fermentation that you would like to use for the next Luigi clone?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma, your results look great.  I am not from NYC nor have I been there but from pictures of real NY pizza and from the NY style pizza I have eaten, yours looks like a spot on clone.   I think Luigi would be proud of you! 

If I did not know any better I would say you have taken the DNA from a real NY pizza and made a clone of the NY pizza and presented it to us.  I have heard of clones of sheep but pizzas? 

In all seriousness you did a fine job.  Once my finger is all healed up I will try to do a Luigi clone with all the great info you and everyone has presented us in this discussion on the subject. 

James,

Thanks for thinking the results were good in my Luigi’s attempt.  I have been to NY different times, and the Luigi’s attempt yesterday was like some of the good slice pies I ate there, except for the color of the rim and bottom crust.

Peter is the one that figured out the Luigi’s formulas to try.  He should get the DNA award!   

Good to hear when your finger is healed you will try a Luigi’s clone attempt! 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

Now that you have had a chance to use the Power flour and have tasted the finished crust using that flour, is there a particular duration of cold fermentation that you would like to use for the next Luigi clone?

Peter

Peter,

It doesn’t matter to me what I try next.  I will let that up to you in the formula I try, and also what kind of fermentation you want me to try. 

Norma

[chickenparm]

Norma,
Excellent job! I loved the look/size of the slices too! Made me super hungry before lunch here!
 

[norma427]

Norma,
Excellent job! I loved the look/size of the slices too! Made me super hungry before lunch here!
 

Bill,

Thanks!    I like to make 18" pizzas, but at one time was afraid to try to make a 18" pizza. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

It doesn’t matter to me what I try next.  I will let that up to you in the formula I try, and also what kind of fermentation you want me to try. 

Norma,

Since Jet_deck (Gene) informed us at Reply 91 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg151218/topicseen.html#msg151218 that Luigi's cold ferments its dough for 24 hours, I'd like to see you attempt a 24-hour cold fermented Luigi's clone dough. For this purpose, I would use the Luigi #1 clone dough formulation as set forth at Reply 177 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg151870.html#msg151870 but modified to reduce the amount of yeast to a value that I believe should work for a one-day cold fermented dough in your part of Pennsylvania this time of year. Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, this is what I get:

Luigi One-Day Cold Fermentation Clone Dough Formulation (Modified #1 Luigi)

Pendleton Power High-Gluten Flour, Unbleached (100%): Water (Crystal Geyser Spring Water) (65%): ADY (0.55%): Salt (1.984%): Sugar (0.22928%): Total (167.76328%):

308.74 g  |  10.89 oz | 0.68 lbs 200.68 g  |  7.08 oz | 0.44 lbs 1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp 6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.1 tsp | 0.37 tbsp 0.71 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.18 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 517.95 g | 18.27 oz | 1.14 lbs | TF = N/A

Note: Dough is for a single 18" pizza; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

In terms of the dough preparation, I would like you to try to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 80 degrees F. Also, before refrigerating, I suggest that you let the dough rest for about 20-30 minutes. That period would be about what it might take workers at Luigi's to take a large dough batch and divide and scale it into a large number of dough balls before putting them into the cooler. The rest period should also enable the dough ball to get some fermentation going before refrigerating. The objective is to get sufficient fermentation and to have an amount of sugar (residual sugar) left over beyond what the yeast needs as food to be available at the time of baking for final crust coloration. You will have to monitor the temper time at market to be sure that the dough isn't either underproofed or overproofed.

In the above formulation, the salt is regular table salt, which is what I assumed when I came up with the original Luigi clone dough formulations. If you prefer to use Kosher salt, then you may have to redo the above dough formulation to use the Kosher salt.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Since Jet_deck (Gene) informed us at Reply 91 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg151218/topicseen.html#msg151218 that Luigi's cold ferments its dough for 24 hours, I'd like to see you attempt a 24-hour cold fermented Luigi's clone dough. For this purpose, I would use the Luigi #1 clone dough formulation as set forth at Reply 177 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg151870.html#msg151870 but modified to reduce the amount of yeast to a value that I believe should work for a one-day cold fermented dough in your part of Pennsylvania this time of year. Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, this is what I get:

Luigi One-Day Cold Fermentation Clone Dough Formulation (Modified #1 Luigi)

Pendleton Power High-Gluten Flour, Unbleached (100%): Water (Crystal Geyser Spring Water) (65%): ADY (0.55%): Salt (1.984%): Sugar (0.22928%): Total (167.76328%):

308.74 g  |  10.89 oz | 0.68 lbs 200.68 g  |  7.08 oz | 0.44 lbs 1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp 6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.1 tsp | 0.37 tbsp 0.71 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.18 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 517.95 g | 18.27 oz | 1.14 lbs | TF = N/A

Note: Dough is for a single 18" pizza; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

In terms of the dough preparation, I would like you to try to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 80 degrees F. Also, before refrigerating, I suggest that you let the dough rest for about 20-30 minutes. That period would be about what it might take workers at Luigi's to take a large dough batch and divide and scale it into a large number of dough balls before putting them into the cooler. The rest period should also enable the dough ball to get some fermentation going before refrigerating. The objective is to get sufficient fermentation and to have an amount of sugar (residual sugar) left over beyond what the yeast needs as food to be available at the time of baking for final crust coloration. You will have to monitor the temper time at market to be sure that the dough isn't either underproofed or overproofed.

In the above formulation, the salt is regular table salt, which is what I assumed when I came up with the original Luigi clone dough formulations. If you prefer to use Kosher salt, then you may have to redo the above dough formulation to use the Kosher salt.

Peter

Peter,

I will use the formula you set-forth, and will use Gene’s suggestion,  (of a 24 hr. cold ferment) since he did call the two Luigi’s locations in San Diego and found out that information. I will try to follow you directions exactly.  I probably missed the part before about using regular table salt, when your first set the formulas forth, but I will use it this time.  I don’t know if I will be able to find the crystal geyser spring water though, but will look at the supermarket.  I usually use bottled water I get at the supermarket.

Thanks, for setting-forth a Luigi’s formulation to try for a 24 hr. ferment.

Norma

[norma427]

The Luigi’s attempt dough was mixed later this morning.  I did use Crystal Geyser Spring Water as the water in the formula.  I mixed the dough the same way as the DDD video.  My finished dough temperature was 78.8 degrees F, so I fell a little short of the targeted final dough temperature of 80 degrees F.  I let the dough sit out for a half an hour and then balled. 

In the pictures below, it can be seen that the Power flour  I received the sample of, has some lumps in the flour.  I don’t know if that is common or not, since I never tried the Power flour before.  This was the same way the Power Flour was when it was sent to me.  The Power Flour sure isn’t as silky as KASL, or other flours I have tried.

The dough was mixed in my Kitchen Aid mixer.  There weren’t any problems with the Power Flour and the hydration.

Since Gene posted Luigi’s dough is cold fermented, the dough ball will be cold fermented until tomorrow.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

The Luigi’s clone attempt was made today using the formula Peter set-forth, and the method of cold fermenting that Gene mentioned in this thread.  The dough ball sat out on my counter and beside my oven for 3 ½ hrs.  The dough ball looked like it had fermented okay.  The dough ball was easy to open to 18”, and I did toss and twirl it.  It was easy to toss this dough. 

The pizza baked okay, but I think I should have left it in the oven a little longer.  The crust was little darker than the pictures and the video show.  This was the video of the Luigi‘s clone attempt being cut by Steve. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKgZWMKdX-E" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKgZWMKdX-E</a>

  It can be seen in some of the video how the crust looked on some of close-up frames.

The Luigis’ clone pizza did turn out very good in the taste of the crust.  That surprised Steve, Randy, my taste testers and me.  We couldn’t believe a one day cold fermented dough had such a good taste in the crust.  I don’t know if it was the Power Flour that made the taste of the crust taste better or the formula Peter set-forth.  Steve and I really liked how the Power flour makes a NY style pizza.  Randy’s one slice was reheated after it was cold and he said the taste of the slice was even better reheated.  I was too busy trying to make other pies to be able to enjoy a reheated slice.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma