Author Topic: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?  (Read 1052 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« on: August 12, 2011, 08:19:09 PM »
I was just curious,I'm used to doing cold rises,not room rises.

I made a doughball to make two,14 inch doughs.After they kneaded in the bread machine,I took the dough out,split them in half,and balled each.One went into the fridge for an overnight rise,and the other went into a bowl,covered,and sat out on the counter for about 4 hours.

The dough on the counter,looked very good,and had risen some.I went to use it and it was a very extensible,super easy to open dough.In fact,it was a bit too extensible,It grew so large when shaping by hand I had to put it down on a 16 inch screen and it might have gone 17 or 18 with no effort.

It was NOT deflated nor overfermented from what I could tell,when I first took it out or began to shape the circle first before lifting.I would not think 4 hours would be enough time anyway.

I was planning on stretching to 15 to bake on the stone,but it was too big in the end and I had to put it on the 16 inch screen.It was a bit larger than 16 inch and had to push the rim back on the screen to make it fit.

The dough formula is 65% KABF,2% salt,and 1/2 tsp of IDY.No oil or sugar was used.

I had meant to do a 62% hydro,but after I had the dough kneading,I checked the paper again and realized I was a bit higher,but I can handle the dough if its sticky.Oh,room temp was 70 degrees.

Is this normal and thats why many of you re-ball the dough? Or is there another factor.Just curious.Thanks.

 :)





« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:21:06 PM by chickenparm »
-Bill


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 08:30:07 PM »
Bill,

How much flour did you use? And did you measure the finished dough temperature?

Peter
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 08:33:28 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 09:30:20 PM »
Peter,I went back and corrected the salt amount.I typed 3% but it was 2%.

Here is the recipe I used.

Flour (100%):    522.03 g  |  18.41 oz | 1.15 lbs
Water (65%):    339.32 g  |  11.97 oz | 0.75 lbs
IDY (0.20%):    1.04 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
Salt (2.0%):    10.44 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
Total (167.2%):   872.83 g | 30.79 oz | 1.92 lbs | TF = 0.1
Single Ball:   436.41 g | 15.39 oz | 0.96 lbs

I did not take any dough temps.I never thought about that.Is it necessary?When I cut the dough in half,one ball was about 7 grams heavier more than the other when I used my scale to measure them yesterday.Not a big deal.

I'm not complaining just so you all know,I was just surprised how easy and very extensible it turned out in that amount of time.I would rather a dough easy to work with than a tough one.

That reminds me...the dough does get a little warm when its mixing inside the bread machine.So I would imagine it would have had to be close to 80 F by then.But thats a guess.If it was very warm,could that explain it too?

I may just make another dough tonight or tomorrow for fun,and try to duplicate it again.Take temps and all.
 :)


-Bill

Online Mmmph

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 09:47:25 PM »
Drop your yeast to .02, and go for a 24 hr room temp rise. Mmmmm.
Sono venuto, ho visto, ho mangiato

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 09:54:16 PM »
Bill,

With only 0.20% IDY, I am guessing that the reason why the dough was so extensible was due to a combination of high hydration in relation to the flour used and a dough that was very warm. I wouldn't be surprised if the finished dough temperature coming out of your bread maker was higher than 80 degrees F, especially if you used a full knead and machine rise and did not use cold water. Of course, this thesis can be easily tested if you make a new batch like the last one and take the temperatures, especially the water temperature and the finished dough temperature. I once calculated the friction factor of my bread maker and it was a lot higher than my stand mixer. It also depends on the mix/knead protocol and when the dough is removed from the bread maker.

Peter


Offline chickenparm

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 10:28:15 PM »
Thanks Peter,

I normally do cold rises so they chill off enough in the fridge to slow down and ferment for 1-3 days.

What you explained makes alot of sense.I have been using room temp water as well.So I can imagine,its going to be a factor as well.Im going to chill my jug of water I use for dough.I normally use my tap water,but for some reason,the last 2 months,our city tap water tastes too much like a bleachy flavor.I cant stand that.

So Im using a jug of water from the store.

Mmmm posted about lowering the yeast amounts.I normally use maybe a 1/4 tsp at times.This time around I used 1/2 a tsp,a little more than I normally do.At the time,I thought maybe I needed a little more if I wanted my dough to be workable by 3-4 hours at room temp.I did not think about the temps of the machine or the final dough,nor the water at the time.

Having alot of fun here,its giving me new experiments to try and to learn what I can also share in the end.

 :)






-Bill

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 10:40:04 PM »
Bill,

Several years ago, I did a fair amount of experimenting with my bread maker to make the Lehmann dough, from which I learned a lot about how temperatures affect the results. See, for example, Reply 260 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg17113.html#msg17113, and also Reply 51 referenced therein.

Peter

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 11:28:39 PM »
Thanks Peter,

I did read that link a long time ago but it was a great refresher course to go back and read again.My bread machine does not have a preheat cycle,but all the other factors contribute to more heat as well,which I will take notes and compensate from there.My new goal is to see if I can make a faster dough that I like as well as a longer,cold risen one.I know I can get there.Thanks for your help!
 :)




-Bill

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2011, 01:25:20 AM »
That's a pretty good side dough given the numbers you gave. I make an 18" pie with less dough then that.Also, I agree that a dough coming out of the bread machine, if you left it in for the full knead cycle, probably came out warmer then 80 degrees, unless you started with very cold water.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2011, 01:40:45 AM »
That's a pretty good side dough given the numbers you gave. I make an 18" pie with less dough then that.Also, I agree that a dough coming out of the bread machine, if you left it in for the full knead cycle, probably came out warmer then 80 degrees, unless you started with very cold water.

Thanks for posting...I would love to see how thin those pies turn out for you.Any pics? I have made a few super thin pies but never posted them,people dont seem to be interested in very thin street style slices as much.
 :)


-Bill


Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2011, 01:44:58 AM »
I'm not a big pizza picture taker, I make them to eat not to admire, but I have a new oven on order and when I make my next thin crust I'll try to snap a shot or two and post it for you.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Very Extensible Dough After 4 hour Room Rise?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2011, 02:17:02 AM »
I'm not a big pizza picture taker, I make them to eat not to admire, but I have a new oven on order and when I make my next thin crust I'll try to snap a shot or two and post it for you.

Thanks.I have made many pizzas with different toppings and etc for the family I never posted.They tend to eat it all up so no pics.Some came out great,some were so-so.Most of my postings,with pics,are experiments and cheese only. Its a little cheaper that way too.
 ;D




-Bill