Sunday night high temp pics

[PizzaSuperFreak]

just had another breakthrough. i've basically mastered the oven temp thing.

i've been messing with my oven on the clean cycle with some help from varasano. finally i was able to regulate the temp to a point that i liked. basically it was due to varasano's suggestions by loosely covering the pizza stone in foil top and bottom. only this time, i doubled up the foil. also i waited only until the radiant heat temp registered around 775F and the stone was about 650 or so.

my crust turned out chewy, soft, springy, bubbly, super super light and airy, and crusty. it was pretty darn perfect.

a couple of things also that i did was i've stared a poolish, sponge, what-have-you, via sourdo.com, and added a tablespoon to my 3Cups of flour lehman-style recipe. i'm also using the raquel/varasano methods for autolyse, etc.

also, something that helped alot, i believe, was the fact that i switched back from the Sir Lancelot hi-gluten flour back to the king arthur bread flour. varasano mentioned that the hi-gluten probably doesn't do that well in such high temps.

i've learned so much in this forum it's unbelieveable.

thanks so much to everyone. i really feel like i can fairly consistently churn out high-quality, approaching-artisan pizza @ home.

check the pics.

keep up the great work everyone !!!

[PizzaSuperFreak]

another (albeit blurry one)

yes, it could've used a tad bit more char, but about another 15 secs, and it would've been there.

also, this was a grilled chicken, red-onion, bacon, polly-o fresh mozz, 6-in-1 tomato pie.

[Pete-zza]

PSF,

Congratulations on a job well done. I can't get over the nice open and airy rim.

I have been trying to read between the lines to determine what you did in terms of your dough recipe. Did you start with one of the Lehmann recipes, substitute KA bread flour for KASL, add some of the sourdo.com starter, use the Raquel/varasano rest periods and kneading/shaping techniques, and made the crust really thin like the Patsy's style? I assume you also used commercial yeast. Did you use oil in the dough?

Peter

[scott r]

pizza super freak, it looks like it was a good night for pizzas.  I had a similar evening with a high temp lehmann pizza.  I am just wondering if you might think that the crust was actually a little too puffy?  I could be wrong here, but I think the high temps are giving me almost too much oven spring.  My crust puffed up in a very similar way to what yours did.  The rim was huge and full of massive holes and air bubbles.  Although I loved it, and so did my guests, It no longer seems like the NY dough that I am trying to recreate.  It is better in one way due to the high heat.  I am getting a really crisp outer crust, while the inside is still really moist and tender.  I think I am going to try even less yeast.  It also could just be that I am using too much dough.  Time to experiment more.

[PizzaSuperFreak]

I have been trying to read between the lines to determine what you did in terms of your dough recipe. Did you start with one of the Lehmann recipes, substitute KA bread flour for KASL, add some of the sourdo.com starter, use the Raquel/varasano rest periods and kneading/shaping techniques, and made the crust really thin like the Patsy's style? I assume you also used commercial yeast. Did you use oil in the dough?

Sorry for the lack of detail, Peter. I get sick of repeating the recipe's and stuff, don't you? I wonder if we should have some place on the forum where we write down our recipes, and keep track of the progress of them, the changes to them, etc. Maybe even have some pics to go along with each recipe modification. Or something like that.

Despite that, I'll try and give some details:

Recipe:
~3 Cups KA bread flour
1 Cup Filtered water
1 Tbs Sourdo starter
1 Tbs olive oil
'bakers' pinch IDY (maybe 1/4 tsp?)
~1 tsp sea salt

Technique:
Heated water to 110F. Put water in Kitchenaid. Stirred in salt till dissolved. Added olive oil to the water, half the flour, starter, and IDY. Mix until well combined with paddle attachment. Autolyse for 20 minutes.

Add remaining flour in small portions over 5 minutes, using paddle attachment until mostly not sticky anymore. Replace paddle with dough hook. Mixed for 10 minutes. Rested 15 minutes. Hand kneaded for 2 minutes on non-floured surface. The dough was not real sticky, so it didn't need board flour. Put in Ziptop back with olive oil spray.

Let double outside (in Florida heat and humidity). Took about 2-3 hours or so. Punched down, separated into 2 dough balls, re-shaped, let rest while oven heated up - about 30 minutes.

Heated the oven to 650 stone and 775 radient heat. (Cleaning cycle with foil protecting the stone)

Shaped dough on lightly-floured surface until mostly shaped, using common flat-hand technique. Finished stretch with fists off the board. Added cornmeal to peel and placed dough on peel. Topped with aforementioned toppings.

Cooked pizza for about 2.5 minutes on top 2/3 of oven.

[PizzaSuperFreak]

hey scott r,

perhaps you're right in that if i were going for a ny style pizza dough, the rim was too puffy. but for me, that's what i was going for. the more air, the better.

but i think i know what you're going for. more of that dense, soft, chewy stuff. right?

perhaps try a lower temp, hi-gluten flour, and a medium hydration. may want to even forget so much about the autolyse.

knowing what i know about most ny style pizza shops, they seem to cook at lower temps. right between 500-625 or so.  also, the hi-gluten flour seems to work better at lower temps than at higher, so i'd be sure to go with that too - such as the KASL. also, it's what the ny-style shops use.

i'd also use a medium hydration, not too wet and sticky (and not too dry either) as the wet and sticky, especially with the autolyse, seems to help produce those big holes (think ciabatta).

just my 2 cents.

[scott r]

thanks PSF, I am going to try some of those changes with my next lehmann.  I do want to keep the temp up high to try and get something a little more crispy/melt in your mouth though.

[Les]

I was wondering if the foil doesn't defeat the purpose of the stone somewhat.  I thought part of its purpose was to draw moisture out of the crust.

I ask this because I've been using a stone in my pizza oven with the traditional SASL-type dough (not Lehmann), and it creates a great airy crust on top, but the bottom is a bit tough even though it looks perfectly cooked (similar to what PizzaSuperFreak's pizza bottom looks like).

Will a foil-covered stone still yield a good top but maybe keep the bottom from getting so tough?

[PizzaSuperFreak]

I was wondering if the foil doesn't defeat the purpose of the stone somewhat.  I thought part of its purpose was to draw moisture out of the crust.

I ask this because I've been using a stone in my pizza oven with the traditional SASL-type dough (not Lehmann), and it creates a great airy crust on top, but the bottom is a bit tough even though it looks perfectly cooked (similar to what PizzaSuperFreak's pizza bottom looks like).

Will a foil-covered stone still yield a good top but maybe keep the bottom from getting so tough?

les, the foil goes on the stone only while the oven is heating up. then it's removed for the cooking. it's only cuz the radient heat should be higher than the temp of the stone. it helps with cooking the top and bottom at the same time.

the bottom of my crust is not tough in any way shape or form. it's chewy, soft, yet crispy.