Author Topic: Thin crust dough recipe from Dino's Gourmet Pizza (St. Paul, MN) (Read 7125 times)

CDNpielover · « **Reply #20 on:** November 19, 2011, 08:49:04 PM »

I guess I can just assume the doughball should have the same weight of flour as Loo's generic, and then just scale everything else that way.

CDNpielover · « **Reply #21 on:** November 19, 2011, 10:49:01 PM »

I converted the original formulation from volume to mass using November's food product calculator (using the "textbook" method; http://tools.foodsim.com) and another online calculator (http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/food-weight-to-volume). I assumed each egg weighed 1.7 ounces (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_ounces_does_an_egg_weigh). This gives the formulation in mass as:

Flour 376 oz
Water 100.145 oz
Milk 34.427 oz
Oil 60.735 oz
Egg 13.6 oz
Oregano 1.69 oz
Sugar 7.266 oz
Salt (indecipherable)
Garlic powder 2.734 oz
Cinnamon 0.092 oz
(indecipherable)
Yeast 1.799 oz (I assumed it was IDY but i'm not sure).

Then, as a baseline I used Loowater's Generic Thin Crust formulation (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6368.0.html). For a 14" pizza, his formulation gives 9.11 oz flour; from this, I was able to scale down the other ingredients. Since I can't decipher the amount of salt from the Dino's video, I used the same amount as in Loo's formulation. For a 14" pie, this gives:

Flour 9.11 oz
Water 2.43 oz
Milk 0.83 oz
Oil 1.47 oz
Egg (beaten) 0.33 oz
Oregano 0.04 oz
Sugar 0.18 oz
Salt 0.09 oz
Garlic powder 0.07 oz
Cinnamon 0.00 oz (i will just add a dash)
(indecipherable)
IDY 0.04 oz

I still don't know what the missing ingredient is, but at any rate it seems like I have enough of the recipe to proceed.

For the oil, I will try corn oil (following Home Run Inn).

I have a couple of questions though for the more experienced folks here:

1) is it OK to assume that IDY is used in the recipe? Would there be a big difference between using the same mass of ADY and IDY?

2) The amount of yeast is less than half of what is used in Loo's generic thin crust recipe (although he uses ADY - i'm not sure what difference that makes), and twice of what is used in Vito and Nick's clone recipe (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6368.100). Loo does his in the oven with the light on for 1.5 hours, then the counter for another couple of house, before going to the fridge. V&N proofs at room temperature. I'm thinking I should proof at room temperature, but i'm not sure how long... Can you overproof a dough?

CDNpielover · « **Reply #22 on:** November 19, 2011, 11:13:28 PM »

Some notes from the video:

the dough was docked
cutter pan was used
provolone and grande cheese was used (any ideas on good proportions?)
sauce applied to approximately 0.5-1 cm from edge
sheeter was used so rolling pin is appropriate

the menu has an interesting "cheeseburger pizza," which has: pesto sauce, ground beef, onions, pickle slices, plus cheddar cheese.

buceriasdon · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2011, 07:57:31 AM »

It would make a 12" pie, rolled out thin and then using a template I made trimmed with a pizza wheel so some of the dough is thrown out. I use a plastic hair brush with little balls on the ends of the bristles as a docker. In the same notebook I found two other recipes that I used only the egg yolk. My recollection is it's difficult to use a whole egg in such a small amount of dough and rarely in my experiments do I make more than one pizza at a time.
Don

Quote from: CDNpielover on November 19, 2011, 08:47:18 PM

Thanks don! how big of a pie was that? i think my biggest problem is figuring out how to scale that recipe down to a single pizza.

CDNpielover · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2011, 01:47:08 PM »

I made this dough using the numbers for a 14" pie that I calculated earlier in this thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15203.msg160388.html#msg160388. I whisked the egg so that I could measure out the appropriate mass for the formulation.

The dough was very difficult to put together - very dry. I recall that Loowater's generic thin crust recipe was like this too, although I haven't made that one in more than a year. I could not imagine kneading this by hand (which I did the first time I made Loo's dough, it took 30 minutes of hand kneading and my hands ached for days after that LOL). I used a bread mixer to do the kneading, and it did come together eventually, but as I said it was difficult to do since this is a REALLY dry dough. I kneaded the dough for about 6 minutes or so in my bread maker. After that, I let it proof at room temperature for about 12 hours.

Can anyone tell me if it's OK to let dough with eggs sit at room temperature? Do the eggs go rancid?

Here are some pics:

buceriasdon · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2011, 01:56:46 PM »

I figure my dough recipe to be about 47% hydration not counting the egg or oil which would make it more wet and slightly easier to roll out. I generally shoot for around 50% which is not that hard to roll out.
Don

CDNpielover · « **Reply #26 on:** November 20, 2011, 01:58:35 PM »

Quote from: buceriasdon on November 20, 2011, 01:56:46 PM

I figure my dough recipe to be about 47% hydration not counting the egg or oil which would make it more wet and slightly easier to roll out. I generally shoot for around 50% which is not that hard to roll out.
Don

Thanks Don! I will give your dough a try too! I would mix it up today, but i've got one in the fridge and one on the counter and my wife is going to get sick of eating so much pizza in one week LOL.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #27 on:** November 20, 2011, 03:35:26 PM »

Quote from: CDNpielover on November 20, 2011, 01:47:08 PM

Here are some pics (sorry i can't embed these, this is by far the worst forum in the world in terms of dealing with pictures):

Why can't you attach the photos? With the exception of the 128K limitation, I find this the easiest of all forums for posting pix. Here is one of yours:

CDNpielover · « **Reply #28 on:** November 20, 2011, 03:38:06 PM »

what code do you use to imbed those? I tried "img" and "/img" in brackets (which works on pretty much every forum), as well as 3 of the imbedding links provided by imageshack. none of them worked.

buceriasdon · « **Reply #29 on:** November 20, 2011, 03:54:25 PM »

You have an Attach: function just below the message body when replying. Click Browse to access your photo, highlight and click add, there ya go.
Don

CDNpielover · « **Reply #30 on:** November 20, 2011, 04:03:37 PM »

I've tried using the attach function, but it has size limitations and doesn't work with any of my photos, unless I resize them which is too much work. It's way easier to host my photos on an online image hosting service like Imageshack. I'm active on a few other internet forums, and on all of these I can simply use "IMG" code to embed these photos into the post. For some reason, that doesn't work on this forum.

In terms of photos, I think this is the worst forum i've ever visited. It's silly that one should have to resize photos to use the attach function, and it's silly that you can't embed photos that are hosted elsewhere. I understand that the forum owner thinks it's better to have the photos attached and hosted by pizzamaking.com (so that they don't eventually get "lost"), however this doesn't seem to be a problem with any other forum i've ever visited.

EDIT: I just realized that the photos that were automatically rezised by imageshack are small enough to be attached. So, i've updated the post. Still, I think it's SILLY that one should have to resize the photos (or upload them to imageshack, redownload them, and then attach them) to get them to work on this site.

buceriasdon · « **Reply #31 on:** November 20, 2011, 04:08:01 PM »

http://www.imageoptimizer.net/Pages/Home.aspx
Quick download, free, easy to use. Right click on your photo and it will automatically reduce it for use on the www. You will still have the orginal also.
Don

CDNpielover · « **Reply #32 on:** November 20, 2011, 04:11:14 PM »

thanks Don, I'll use that next time! I still fail to see why all of this effort is necessary, though. This isn't a problem on any other forum i've ever visited.

Thanks though for the help - I really do appreciate it!

BTB · « **Reply #33 on:** November 21, 2011, 05:56:39 PM »

Quote from: CDNpielover on November 20, 2011, 04:03:37 PM

In terms of photos, I think this is the worst forum i've ever visited. It's silly that one should have to resize photos to use the attach function, and it's silly that you can't embed photos that are hosted elsewhere. . . . I think it's SILLY that one should have to resize the photos . . . to get them to work on this site.

Sorry, CDN, but I think that's a preposterous statement. For me, posting photos on this site have been super, super simple. And I resize a photo with an old Microsoft photoshop-like program in literally "seconds." So I think the silly comments are misplaced.

--BTB

Hdale85 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 21, 2011, 08:44:07 PM »

I do wish we could use [IMG] codes..... Because I use Photobucket for all my photos and on all forums, always have.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #35 on:** November 21, 2011, 09:28:49 PM »

Many of the forums I participate in that link to external sites for photos are full of dead links to photos - photos that have been deleted or sites that no longer exist, or sites that have reorganized. One thing I like about the way Steve has this site set up is that there are 0 dead photo links.

CDNpielover · « **Reply #36 on:** November 23, 2011, 12:51:50 PM »

OK so this dough proofed at room temperature for about 16 hours-ish, and has been in the fridge ever since (about 72 hours now). I plan to make this tonight, as a "cheeseburger pizza" sensu Dino's Gourmet Pizza, except that instead of using a pesto sauce, I'll be using Pete's PJ clone sauce mixed with (GASP!) ketchup. I plan to add cooked ground beef, chopped onions, chopped tomatoes, and pickle slices - with mozzarella and cheddar cheeses.

Do you guys have any advice on the best way to deal with the pickles - i.e., should they be added before or after cooking? I've been reading that a lot of people don't like them cooked on pizza (http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/05/the-ultimate-cheeseburger-pizza.html), but I'm not so sure why.... So i'm thinking of maybe doing half of the pie with cooked pickles, and half of the pie with uncooked pickles. But maybe someone here has advice?

And of course, i'll be posting pictures of the process assuming I have the ambition to go through the whole picture resizing process debated above.

CDNpielover · « **Reply #37 on:** November 23, 2011, 09:58:57 PM »

OK so I made the pie and am here to report the results. It was a great success!

I used the formulation for a 14” pie that is given in Reply #21 of this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15203.msg160388.html#msg160388). You can see my comments regarding the kneading etc. of the dough in Reply #24 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15203.msg160440.html#msg160440). After kneading the dough, I put it in a glass bowl enclosed in a gallon-size zipper-style bag. I used a scissors to cut a “cross” in the center top of the bag (about 2x2 mm), in an attempt to permit gas exchange while at the same time trying to preserve the dough water content. The dough was proofed at room temperature for about 16 hours, and was then stored in the fridge for about 72 hours or so.

To bring the dough to room temperature, I removed the dough from the fridge and set it on the counter (still in the bag) for 1 hour before removing it from the bag and placing it on a floured counter for another 30 minutes.

Next, I used a rolling pin to sheet the dough into a 14” circle. The dough was docked using a fork, and then transferred to an oiled 15” cutter pan.

I was making a “cheeseburger pizza,” based on one of the topping combinations that used to be available at Dino’s Gourmet Pizza. The toppings consisted of cooked gound hamburger, pickle slices, chopped tomatoes, chopped onions, mozzarella cheese, and cheddar cheese. For sauce, I mixed 1/3 cup of Pete-zza’s Papa John’s clone sauce (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.0.html) and 1/3 cup of ketchup, for a total of 2/3 cup of sauce. I applied the sauce to within about 1 cm of the edge. I then applied the mozzarella cheese, followed by the onion, pickles slices (on half), ground beef, tomatoes, and the cheddar cheese.

The cutter pan was then transferred to a pizza stone on the bottom rack of an oven that had been heated at 550 °F for 1 hour. The pie was cooked for 10 minutes.

After removing the pie, I applied pickle slices to the half which did not receive them prior to cooking. This was so that I could test the effects of cooking vs. not cooking the pickle slices, as many people have reported that they don’t like them cooked (http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/05/the-ultimate-cheeseburger-pizza.html).

Once I removed the pie, I placed pickles on the half without pickles, and cut it into squares. This was a really great pizza! The dough was good, but seemed a bit “dry” and had a crumbly texture kind of like a pie crust. I’m curious if my baking time contributed to this, and next time I’ll cook it for a minute less. I couldn’t taste the pickles that were cooked, but could taste the ones that were not cooked, and they were very good on this pizza. Next time I’ll add the pickles after cooking. Also, next time I plan to use less toppings. I ALWAYS apply too many toppings to my pizza, and ALWAYS wish I hadn't so that I could have a larger crust:toppings ratio.

I would encourage you guys to try this formulation and let me know how it goes. I would really appreciate advice on how to improve this dough. At any rate, I’ll be making it again!

Here are some pics:

BTB · « **Reply #38 on:** November 24, 2011, 01:16:22 PM »

I'm glad that you continued forward and reported on your pizzamaking adventure here and had as you said " . . . the ambition to do" what's necessary to post the photos on this website, CDN. I'm sure you realize -- as I do -- that when you put your thoughts, expressions and things out there for people to review and assess that many things -- good and not-so-good -- is natural to expect as a response. You already know about my thoughts on the photos, but I must say you did a spectacular job on showing us your pizza work product. And it generally looked really delicious.

Just some quick thoughts . . . 16 hours counter rise, while I've never done it so long, many have. And I think that's fine. But then somewhere up to 72 hrs thereafter in the refrigerator (maybe that's 72 minus 16) seems a bit too long. Maybe a lot too long and I don't know if the yeast effect will last that long? ? ? Regarding the sauce, I wouldn't ever consider any sauce that contained ketchup. I have a big, big hang up there, I realize, and that may just be me. I would never even put ketchup on ribs that I've been cooking for 4 or 5 hours (it would ruin the whole day's effort).

But then I look at the other sauce ingredients that you indicated and everything is fine until I come to . . . . pickles! ! ! Who -- I think to myself -- in the world would want to put pickles on a pizza? And the poster asks "what do you guys have to advise on how to deal with the pickles?" . . . like as if that were a "natural question!" Like . . . "what do you do with your pickles on the pizza? cooked or uncooked?" I wouldn't even ever, ever consider pickles on a pizza so I wonder who that question is directed towards. (I know, I'm probably goofy and this).

So I asked a few people and their reaction was the same as mine . . . pickles on a pizza . . . yuck! ! ! Oh, well, I thought. I always say, differences are what makes the world go around, right? Query: What percentage of the North American pizza consuming world would desire "pickles" on their pizza? 75%? 40%? 15%? 2%? I haven't found a person yet, but I'm sure there's some out there.

Just joking around with you CDN. Enjoy what you want to enjoy. (But pickles? ? ?)

--BTB

P.S. Again, very nice job on the mouthwatering photos? How was the crust and what would you do differently with the crust or dough next time? Those are the kind of lessons our members would like to hear about.

Hdale85 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 24, 2011, 01:32:50 PM »

Well, I'm guessing that pickles and ketchup wouldn't go on a normal pizza, but that was a cheese burger pizza so sounds like burger toppings to me?