Author Topic: Slowing down a Santos Mixer (Read 8328 times)

Pete-zza · « **Reply #20 on:** August 23, 2011, 12:56:25 PM »

Omid,

In light of your recent Santos investigations, I thought that you, and possibly others, might find the following article (Mixers: Developing Dough) of interest: http://www.bakingbusiness.com/Features/Processing%20and%20Packaging/2010/4/Mixers.aspx?racategory=Mixing. That article addresses many of the challenges that manufacturers of high-volume commercial dough making equipment face. I found the MIXING BY ENERGY section of the article to be very interesting as well as the following observation: “We want to increase turbulence of flour and water in the first 30 seconds of mixing so we can get the highest possible hydration into the flour,” he said. “We get to the ‘pickup’ stage in about 30 seconds with our mixers, but then you have to transition into a gentle folding action so you don’t rip the gluten matrix being developed.”

Peter

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #21 on:** August 23, 2011, 01:13:25 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on August 23, 2011, 12:56:25 PM

Omid,

In light of your recent Santos investigations, I thought that you, and possibly others, might find the following article (Mixers: Developing Dough) of interest: http://www.bakingbusiness.com/Features/Processing%20and%20Packaging/2010/4/Mixers.aspx?racategory=Mixing.

Dear Peter, thank you for the link!

scott r · « **Reply #22 on:** August 23, 2011, 05:41:37 PM »

Omid, A variable frequency drive coupled with a rewound or a new motor is the only way to get your desired speed. A variac will not work with the type of motor in your santos and a transformer will not slow it down enough. Please save your money.

Zeppi · « **Reply #23 on:** August 23, 2011, 07:26:25 PM »

Omid!

Mr.Fouquet is reading this post and he will try to do
something about this ,he is a very nice man and passionnate
so hope for the best in the futur !

Louis

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #24 on:** August 23, 2011, 09:59:18 PM »

Quote from: scott r on August 23, 2011, 05:41:37 PM

Omid, I thought I had already addressed this earlier in this thread. A variable frequency drive coupled with a rewound or a new motor is the only way to get your desired speed. along with being dangerous a variac WILL NOT WORK AT ALL with the type of motor in your santos and a transformer will not slow it down enough. Again, if you use a variac the speed of your mixer will not slow down at all and you will just eventually damage the motor. Please save your money. plus, I am a little scared.....who are these experts you are talking to.......they are giving you bad advice. Remember, I am a santos owner...been down this very same road years ago. If you don't believe me hopefully scpizza will talk to you soon so you can stay away from the advice of people speculating about how your santos works.

Dear Scott, I thank you boundlessly for your concern and guidance. Electronics—at the macro level that concerns the Santos mixer with its seemingly simple circuitry—should not be a matter of guesswork and groundless solutions for an electronic engineer who graduated from the University of Berlin, where he also taught electronics for several years. Besides, he worked many years for Grundig and Simens as an engineer. So, I am truly puzzled and perplexed as to how he miscalculated, if at all, his solution to the problem. Perhaps he may change his mind once he takes a close and personal look at the inside of the mixer. He did tell me not to try anything until he is back from Germany. So far, all he has seen are the schematic and the specification sheet, as illustrated hereunder. Either those who tried the above-referenced route or solution did not do something right or the engineer is missing crucial pieces of information or he is simply incompetent! I will probably give him a call tonight in Germany. Dear Scott, again, I thank you for your help.

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #25 on:** August 23, 2011, 10:24:02 PM »

Quote from: Zeppi on August 23, 2011, 07:26:25 PM

Omid!

Mr.Fouquet is reading this post and he will try to do something about this ,he is a very nice man and passionate so hope for the best in the future!

Louis

Dear Louis, I am so indebted to you for all your help and sympathy . . . thank you!

Monsieur Fouquet, s'il vous plaît nous aider à réduire la vitesse du mélangeur Santos. Moi et beaucoup d'autres amateurs de pizza aiment votre produit, mais pour faire la pâte à pizza napolitaine nous avons besoin soit d'un nouveau mélangeur Santos avec vitesse plus lente ou nous avons besoin de savoir comment réduire la vitesse. S'il vous plaît nous aider. . . merci!

shuboyje · « **Reply #26 on:** August 24, 2011, 12:30:10 PM »

If all you want is 50hz like in Europe why not buy a European power inverter that will produce 50hz. Then feed it with a 12v rectifier. Done.

shuboyje · « **Reply #27 on:** August 24, 2011, 05:04:52 PM »

I was on lunch on my iPhone so that was the short version. Here's the long. A power inverter takes DC power(most commonly 12 volt) and converts it to AC power by generating it's own wave form. Here in the US a power inverter would produce 60hz power to feed standard US products. In Europe a power inverter would produce 50hz power to feed their standard products. A rectifier converts AC power to DC power. So if you take your 120V 60hz American power and feed it into a rectifier producing 12V DC power, you can then feed that 12V DC power into a European power inverter which will produce 50hz AC power. Obviously you would need to convert the European plug on the inverter to an American plug, but thats no big deal.

To take this a step further, you could modify the inverter to produce whatever frequency, and hence whatever RPM you desire. The frequency of the wave produced by a power inverter is generally controlled by one resistor. Change the value of that resistor and you change the frequency of output. This exact method is used in some variable frequency drives by using a variable resistor of some sort in the circuit, but since you want a fixed RPM a fixed resistor would work. Here is a link that discusses doing exactly this to controll motor speed for a different purpose:

http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drivcorr.htm

If anyone tackles this read the warnings in the link, and remember power is dangerous. A fraction of a Milli Amp can kill you in the right situation, so know what you are doing before you proceed.

shuboyje · « **Reply #28 on:** August 24, 2011, 05:47:36 PM »

Just realized I forgot the transformer. You first need a 12v transformer to produce 12v ac. Then a rectifier for 12v dc.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #29 on:** August 24, 2011, 06:42:57 PM »

Quote from: shuboyje on August 24, 2011, 05:47:36 PM

Just realized I forgot the transformer. You first need a 12v transformer to produce 12v ac. Then a rectifier for 12v dc.

Jeff, so if I understand this correctly:

120VAC/60Hz -> TRANSFORMER -> 12VAC/60HZ -> RECTIFIER -> 12VDC -> INVERTER -> 120VAC/50HZ -> EURO PLUG ADAPTER -> SANTOS

Is this right?

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #30 on:** August 24, 2011, 07:09:52 PM »

And if it is right, do you know where one can find an inverter that outputs 120VAC/50Hz? Thanks much.

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 24, 2011, 08:15:26 PM »

Quote from: Bill/SFNM on August 24, 2011, 07:09:52 PM

And if it is right, do you know where one can find an inverter that outputs 120VAC/50Hz? Thanks much.

I doubt such a thing exists off the shelf. They will all be 220V.

CL

apizza · « **Reply #32 on:** August 24, 2011, 08:25:40 PM »

It does exists. See my post #413.
www.samlexamerica.com
Select model sa-2000k-112

50-60HZ switch selectable. Price unknown.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #33 on:** August 24, 2011, 08:38:12 PM »

Quote from: apizza on August 24, 2011, 08:25:40 PM

It does exists. See my post #413.
www.samlexamerica.com
Select model sa-2000k-112

50-60HZ switch selectable. Price unknown.

Price known. Yikes. $774!

http://www.amazon.com/Samlex-SA-2000K-112-2000-Watt-Inverter/dp/B003Y5AE5E

shuboyje · « **Reply #34 on:** August 24, 2011, 08:45:34 PM »

Yeah that is true that the euro inverters will be 220v but the Santos runs at 220 drawing 600 watts. Somebody needs to check with them and see if it can handle that as wired for the American market. It draws 600 watts at 220 and a 900 watt inverter can be had on amazon for $85.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #35 on:** August 24, 2011, 09:04:42 PM »

Plate from my Santos:

apizza · « **Reply #36 on:** August 24, 2011, 09:26:58 PM »

The inverter has to be large enough to handle the start surge current. The 2000 watt inverter is 3 times the running wattage to handle the start. Also, is the $85 inverter on Amazon 50 HZ @ 120 volts ? I'll bet it isn't a pure sine wave supply. I think the pure sine wave design is part of the high cost.

Thanks for the cost Bill. I never thought to look on Amazon. What don't they carry?

apizza · « **Reply #37 on:** August 24, 2011, 09:37:06 PM »

Maybe we need a Santos thread under equipment. I'm really missing the pizza pictures.

shuboyje · « **Reply #38 on:** August 24, 2011, 09:41:09 PM »

No, $85 for 220/50 modified.

I also looked at the Santos schematics, the 220 model is wired very differently.

Apparantly 2:1 transformers are pretty common for converting 220/50 into 110/50. Most american devices will run at 110/50, so they can be used in europe with the converter. That said this would become quite the daisey chain. It would go:

120V / 60HZ AC -> Transformer -> 12V 60HZ AC -> Rectifier -> 12V DC -> Euro Power Inverter -> 220V / 50 HZ -> 2:1 transformer -> 110V/ 50HZ -> Santos

To me that is a lot of electrical equipment for a little gain. Before doing all that I would buy a cheap american power inverter and have somebody with electrical knowledge modify it to run at the exact frequency you want to really dial this in. If I had a Santos I would forge the path. Just for the sake of it, this would go:

120V/60HZ -> Transformer -> 12V 60HZ AC -> Rectifier -> 12V DC -> Power Inverter(with resistor modification) -> 120V/whatever frequency you modified it to run -> Santos

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #39 on:** August 24, 2011, 09:54:02 PM »

Quote from: apizza on August 24, 2011, 09:37:06 PM

Maybe we need a Santos thread under equipment. I'm really missing the pizza pictures.

I split much of this out into a new thread.