Author Topic: Looking for a puffy crust  (Read 3861 times)

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Offline ZioLorenzo

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Looking for a puffy crust
« on: September 01, 2011, 10:20:08 PM »
hey whats up guys, ive been making pizza at home for a a little while and trying to get better at it. One thing i dont seem to get is a nice puffy crust. not sure why??

I use a pizza stone on the bottom shelf preheat 550 for an hour. I cook the pizza on there for a couple minutes then finish it on the broiler.

Idk if my dough is the reason or the oven just isnt hot enough

I use 65 % hydration
100% Antimo Caputo 00 flour - 500grams
1 - tsp ADY
1 - tsp salt
1 - tsp EVOO

I mix all ingredients then let sit 20 min

Kneed for about 5 -8 min

let sit for half hour to an hour

make into balls then put in the fridge over night

the next day when im making the pizza I take them out about an hour before I use them
The dough stretches very easy, and it doubles while proofing

heres a picture of one of my pies not bad but trying to get it more neapolitan style ( i just use that pan for cooling not to cook the pie)

Not sure why its not poofy and softer, and also it doesnt have a ton of flavor

Any tips would be very helpful
Thanx guys
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 10:58:16 PM by ZioLorenzo »


Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 11:25:39 PM »
stretch and fold, not knead.   switch to KABF or SCBF, 00 isn't in your ovens temp range
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 11:43:21 PM »
I use a kitchen Aide machine, with a dough hook, could that be part of the problem? I've used the king Arthur in the past and didn't see much difference.

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2011, 10:29:50 PM »
 
Your methos is almost right, but try this:


Two weeks ago I had a pizza demo for children at church, we baked around 20 pizzas using stones and any kind of stuff, you name it we used it:  Bets results were with a cast iron.

1.- Try to bake your pizza on cast iron, you will see the first difference. ( check in amazon.com ).
 
2.- Do not ferment in the fridge, ferment in a cold spot in your house, you will see the next soft difference.

3.- Use only KABF ( sifted ).

4.- Do not use EVOO at all.

I hope this helps. ;)

Offline SELES

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2011, 11:18:11 PM »
I've lived in three different cities in the past three years and have had the abnormal opportunity to bake in variety of different ovens in a short amount of time. I spent about three really frustrating years trying to get decently sprung pies out of my electric oven. Then, with the first move came a gas oven and everything changed for me. From there on out they were all gas, my favorite, a 300 home depot stove which had a heating element that doubled as the broiler. I miss that stove.

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2011, 01:25:00 AM »
Alex chef thanx, I have heard a lot is people talk about using cast iron, i will try that. And as far as the ferment how long would I leave it out on my counter , over night?

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2011, 11:58:51 AM »
Alex chef thanx, I have heard a lot is people talk about using cast iron, i will try that. And as far as the ferment how long would I leave it out on my counter , over night?

Right now I am fermenting my pizza dough in a ice chest with four small ice packs inside, I will ferment it for 6-8 hours.  Look for a cold spot in your house, basically on a floor, not carpet.

I also use a poolish, it is a mix of a cup of water, a cup of flour and a teaspoon of yeast, I let this ferment in the fridge overnight and  use 20% for my total weigh of pizza dough.  To replenish the poolish, I just mix again 1/2 cup of flour with 1/2 cup of water and I return it to the fridge.  If I am not baking for a while, every month I add 1/2 cup of flour mixed with 1/2 cup of water to feed the starter.  This gives a special flavor and improves the dough.


Hope this helps.

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2011, 01:43:37 PM »
ok, when adding the poolish to your bulk flour do you put in any extra active dry yeast or just the poolish as the rising agent?

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2011, 10:06:25 PM »
ok, when adding the poolish to your bulk flour do you put in any extra active dry yeast or just the poolish as the rising agent?

I use both, the poolish and active dry yeast.  Today I made the best pizzas ever.




Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2011, 11:10:43 PM »
I use both, the poolish and active dry yeast.  Today I made the best pizzas ever.




Any pictures of these beauties, or do we just have to take your word on it?  ;)

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2011, 03:29:49 AM »
Any pictures of these beauties, or do we just have to take your word on it?  ;)

Sorry, I didn't take any pictures, we make pizzas every weekend, today I had a nap and my wife help me making the pies, basically we take pictures of special food presentations or carvings, not of pizzas.

I am a professional chef, so my life is involved with food all the time, for me to make this kind of things is normal, we bake our own bread and pastries at home every other day.  Many times our 3YO daughter helps in the kitchen and my wife takes pictures or video.

 
Just try the tips that I gave you, this forums help a lot with true and valuable information, but you need to try by yourself.  The information in this forum is hard to find in any recipe book, even you can have results much better than any pizzaria specially in America.


My culinary regards,


Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2011, 01:14:08 PM »
Ok thanx, I made the poolish, its in the fridge. Today I'm actually going to try and use that for my tuscan bread and see how it comes out, pizza is on the.menu for later in the week :)

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2011, 08:01:02 PM »
So Tonight the pie came out the best Ive ever made ( in my opinion) the crust was definetly puffier. I changed a couple things I normally do,

1. I used the poolish at 18% total weight of the flour

2. I watched a video about stretching out the dough and changed my technique

3. last thing i did was after the stone pre-heated for an hour I moved it to the top rack and let the broil cycle for about 8-10 min then threw the pie on with the broiler running

Problem with that was the bottom wasnt as cooked as it usualy gets, and my thermometer said the temp in the botttom of the oven went from 575 to about 450- 425  :( so that wasnt good

But definetly a better crust and texture, going to keep trying and get better :) thanx for the help and heres some pics of dinner  :chef:

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 08:02:55 PM »
Underneath not as cooked as usual

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 08:03:48 PM »
Nice crust this time  ;D

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 08:20:28 PM »
Nice crust this time  ;D

Congratulations!!! you are getting closer, try a cast iron for pizza, you will see the difference, specially with this temperature range, you will have almost professional results. 

If you have a WFO you will not need cast iron, but at any home oven you will see a big difference.

I love this kind of pizzas because they are so hard to make that take several sessions and practice to make them the right way, the bad side is that you will never go back to eat any kind of commercial american pizza in your life.

Right now I am baking a Lemon Pound Cake which is in the oven, my version to Starbuck's Lemon Pound cake, it is also addictive to have a slice with an Espresso on a side.

I am happy to hear your results.

With my culinary regards,


Alex.:

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2011, 09:00:04 PM »
Sorry, I didn't take any pictures, we make pizzas every weekend, today I had a nap and my wife help me making the pies, basically we take pictures of special food presentations or carvings, not of pizzas.

I am a professional chef, so my life is involved with food all the time, for me to make this kind of things is normal, we bake our own bread and pastries at home every other day.  Many times our 3YO daughter helps in the kitchen and my wife takes pictures or video.

 
Just try the tips that I gave you, this forums help a lot with true and valuable information, but you need to try by yourself.  The information in this forum is hard to find in any recipe book, even you can have results much better than any pizzaria specially in America.


My culinary regards,



Alex, I understand that baking and cooking on a regular basis can make it difficult to take pictures of everything, not to mention that food items can become monotonous and lose their appeal.  However, for those of us who don't make these specialty items often, we love to see those pictures.  If you remember or have time, I would really like to see your work.  Not only pizza, but anything else you want to share.  Like that lemon pound cake.  Sounds really scrumptous.  Don't just torture me with the description, but pictures as well please.   ;)

TIA,
Chau


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2011, 09:10:59 PM »
Like that lemon pound cake.  Sounds really scrumptous.  Don't just torture me with the description, but pictures as well please.   ;)


And recipe, please.  :)

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2011, 09:59:43 PM »
im excited the pizza gets better every time, and ive been learning a bunch since gettting on this site Great info from all you guys :)

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2011, 10:31:24 PM »
 
 :chef: Here is my recipe for the Lemon pound Cake, I can share my web page but it is in a different language: http://www.mujer.com.mx/com/gastronomia/recetas/postres/575-panque-citrus

   Lemon Pound Cake.

2 Cups of cake flour sifted.
1 teaspoon of baking powder.
1 pinch of ground sea salt.
1 cup of sugar.
1 Tablespoon of grated lemon zest.
2 1/2 sticks of butter.
4 eggs at room temperature.
2 Tablespoon of lime juice.
1 Tablespoon of Lemon extract.
5 drops of yellow food color. ( optional you can use green food color instead ).

Glaze:

2 Tablespoons of lemon juice.
2 Cups of confectioner sugar.
1 Tablespoon of milk.

Preparation:

Creaming method.

1. Mix butter and sugar with the paddle attachment until light and fluffy.
2. Add eggs, one by one in low speed to incorporate.
3. Add juice, flavor and color little by little. Stop mixing.
4. Sift and mix all other dry ingredients.
5. Fold carefully by hand.
6. Put on a greased square mold and bake at 325 F for about an hour.

After baking set aside, onmold until warm and cover with the glaze once it gets totally cold.

Glaze.

1. Blend all ingredents.
 

Offline etheil

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2011, 01:18:53 PM »
I have a couple of suggestions as well. For the flavor, try doing a room temp fermentation. You'll need to experiment with the yeast amount, but at 70 degrees, try using .12% instant yeast. This should allow you about 12 to 15 hours of fermentation before balling the dough. From there, you can ball and then refrigerate until ready to use. For your 500 grams of flour, that would only be .6 grams which works out to less than an eighth of a teaspoon (I think an eighth of a teaspoon is .8 grams.)

Also, make sure to hand stretch the dough ball when creating your skin. The idea is to push the air from the center of the dough to the outside edges. Use the flat part of your fingers to initially press the dough out and then you can begin using the palm of your hand to guide the air to the edge. If you hear popping going on when pressing out the dough, your losing those air pockets which would otherwise provide you with an airier crust.

One last suggestion is to back off on the water a bit. A wetter dough can work very well in a hotter oven and when baking bread, but in this case, the dough might have trouble browning because it takes a little longer to heat up and bake with the increased moisture. If you're using KASL or even the GM Better for Bread flour (makes a great pizza crust) try a hydration level in the 61-63% range. You have to find out what works best in your oven. You want to make sure the crust and toppings are finishing at the same time. As you increase the water, you sometimes end up with an under baked crust, but perfectly baked toppings or the reverse of that with over baked toppings and perfectly baked crust.

Good luck!

Eric


Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2011, 02:16:09 PM »
Thanx, next batch of  doigh I will try that with the yeast.

I have dough in the fridge so pizza is on the menu for dinner :)

About stretchinv the dough out, a week ago I saw a video about pushing the air bubbles to the edge, I did it last time and it worked great

I do have  a problem with the crust Browning, I figured 550 isn't hot enough ? Also I'm trying two stones tonight one  on the boyyom rack the other in the middle rack and hoping to get some reflective  heat.

Offline ZioLorenzo

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2011, 08:56:10 PM »
OK so pizza tonight wasnt good, First time with higher heat.
the bottom burnt before the top browned.

The stone temp was 780 on my IR gun when I threw the pie in, the 2 stones preheated for about 1.5 hours

2 stones in the oven, I Had one stone on the bottom rack and one on the middle rack ( heat source bottom burner)

placed pizza on bottom stone, in 2  min the bottom was burnt :( I put the stone in the middle hoping for some reflective heat to brown the crust but no luck

any suggestions

I tried to post the pics but it said the fles were too large

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 09:35:55 PM »
OK so pizza tonight wasnt good, First time with higher heat.
the bottom burnt before the top browned.

The stone temp was 780 on my IR gun when I threw the pie in, the 2 stones preheated for about 1.5 hours

2 stones in the oven, I Had one stone on the bottom rack and one on the middle rack ( heat source bottom burner)

placed pizza on bottom stone, in 2  min the bottom was burnt :( I put the stone in the middle hoping for some reflective heat to brown the crust but no luck

any suggestions

I tried to post the pics but it said the fles were too large

IMO just try to use a cast iron, like three of four weeks ago I made a pizza class for children, we baked that night around 20 pizzas, we use all kinds of devices, you name it; we used it.  The best results with a home oven ( not modified ) was the cast iron pizzas, many of the parents are searching for cast irons after that day, they ask me where to buy one.  
I bought mine in Vegas many years ago, I was traveling in my honey moon and I found a cast iron for pizza, after using cast iron, my only next option is to build a WFO. I also have some pizza stones (like 4) that I use for breads.

When baking with cast iron, I put it at the center of the oven and I alternate between baking and broiling.  I used to bake it at the top but it burns too fast, now I prefer to have more control baking at the center of the oven, the crust is perfect for me that way.

Good luck in your next baking.

My culinary regards,


Alex.: :chef:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 10:09:55 PM by alex_chef2000 »

Offline MO_Pie

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Re: Looking for a puffy crust
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2011, 03:57:21 PM »
I'm having the same problem.  I'm using the Varasano site as inspiration.... but I don't have very good results.  I'm using a big green egg to cook my pies in and usually throw them on when stone is at 670' ish.  There's little spring in the dough.  Last night I got the pie closer to the top of the egg (ceramic BBQ cooker) and it was browing the tops nicely, but they were still tough.  I am trying to use high hydration dough, so that comment above I'll try out to see if it works better.

    Starter Separate       
Ingredient    Grams    Bakers %   Total %
Flour           985.34              100.00%   58.65%
Water             670.03          68.00%    39.88%
Starter    -                               0.00%   0.00%
IDY              2.46                   0.25%               0.15%
Salt              22.17                 2.25%   1.32%
             1,680.00       100.00%