Author Topic: PUZZLING  (Read 3738 times)

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Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2011, 03:46:44 PM »
Thanks for an interesting post.  All these years of making dough, all this is new info to me.  We currently use SEAL OF MINNASOTA BAKERS FLOUR...which I found to be about 12% protien, so not all purpose, but not Hi Gluten,  we mix for 10 minutes, the dough is smooth...so we MAY be overmixing with the three day cold ferm.  Im gonna mess around with this when no one is looking.

Time to study up on spiral mixers.  Do you think the fork and arm mixers are more for NEO pies??


scott123

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2011, 03:56:41 PM »
Well, like I said, with lower protein flours, overkneading is less of a threat.  Of course, if you drop the protein too much, then overkneading will end up breaking down the gluten and you'll have a gluey mess, but, 12% flour isn't going to do that anywhere near 10 minutes. At some point, I do suggest dialing back the kneading a bit and seeing what kind of results you get, though.

And, yes, fork and arm- Neo. 

Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2011, 04:21:56 PM »
Thank you Scott...youve been a great, great help, full of info, and I appreciate it.

scott123

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2011, 05:05:20 PM »
You're welcome, Nick.  It's really great to have an owner here who's earnestly looking to improve their product. And it's especially exciting when an owner from the tri-state area shows up. That's a big deal.  We don't get too many pizzeria owners from the NY metro area here.  I know the guy at my (ex)favorite place is way too proud to ever ask anybody for help. It's a shame, because he used to win boatloads of awards, and could again.

In one of his books, Tony Bourdain talks about consultants being the kiss of death for a restaurant, but that, imo, is on the cooking side.  Too many cooks spoil the soup. Baking's a different beast.  When it comes to baking and all the complexities it entails, knowledge from others is tremendously invaluable.

Thank you, for your insight into the NH scene.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2011, 06:14:45 PM »
Are you a consultant??  Cripes, now I feel bad.  Im sorry if I asked too many questions...I didn't realize.

However, if this goes forward, as at this point it looks as if I may HAVE to....you can email me any info on your company, I would be most interested.  I may not be happy here, but Ill leave with more cash than when I got into it.

Thanks again.

Oh, cooking is and art....so much of baking is a science.  A science on which you can build artistically.  I don't know a TENTH of what people know on this board, yet I sell a hell of a lot of pizza.  ANd as I accumulate more knowledge, who knows, I may sell a ton more AND be proud of them....that would be nice.

scott123

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2011, 04:13:43 AM »
Nick, you received the bill I sent you, right?  :-D

Seriously, though, I think you misunderstood me.  I am a consultant, but I'm not here on a professional basis- I just love discussing pizza  ;D  There's no such thing as 'too many' pizza-related questions.

Bourdain's restaurant 'consultants' are vultures-circling-the-wagon, mercenary and, in his opinion, pointless.  When I talk about baking consulting, it's about getting information from anywhere and everywhere, including here.  Regardless of whether it's paid or unpaid, baking assistance is invaluable.  Put another way, if a restaurant owner starts going around and asking people how to make a better tomato sauce, then I think there might be a bit of a problem, but if a bakery owner asks how he can get a slightly better spring to his loaves, then someone out there might be able share the necessary science to achieve that, which, in turn, produces a superior product and increases profits. In a sense, it takes a village to bake a good loaf of bread.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 09:16:12 AM by scott123 »

Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2011, 10:41:27 AM »
Correct.....asking people how to make a better tomato sauce, is after a few basic facts, mostly opinion.  Getting a better spring is technique based in facts.

Youre last sentance......have a great book  The Villiage Baker....by Joe Ortiz......(I think).

Well, thanks again.  I tell  you when you are in a professional relationship and your significant others are ONLY interested in keeping the process as SIMPLE as you can, with simple being the ONLY concern.....at the COST of quality.......its FRUSTRATING as hell.  I UNDERSTAND simple, but NOT simple for simple sake.  FOr example.  We grate our own 50lb wheel of Pecorino Romano.  Now, I, for one, would think that you would do this so that the cheeze is fresh, fluffy, softer, a bit clumpier, a tad more moisture,,,,RIght?? Well, my significant other tells our help to grate the chesee and then spread it out on sheet pans in order to dry it out.........DRY IT OUT!?!?!?!  Why??  Because when the cheese is like DUST, its easier to spread on a pizza evenly.  ANd beleive me, its like DUST.  So you take a beautiful, moist, sheep milk tasting cheese and DRY it out so it has diminished flavor JUST so you can spread it out more evenly.

THAT is simple a small small small example of how MANY things I want to change, things that MAY require more work, but that would make a hell of a better pizza. I admit, I have learned the importance of SIMPLE.  BUT, I think MY stance on simple is: MAKE THE MOST DELICIOUS PIZZA AS SIMPLE AS YOU CAN.  Not, like now where its simply MAKE IT SIMPLY AS YOU CAN. 

I try and get the point across, but to no avail.....NO customer EVER leaves your restaurant and says to others....Boy, that was the simplest made pizza I've EVER had!!!  You should see how organized they are!!!.   

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2011, 10:58:28 AM »

Oh yeah, one more thing.  The BEST pizza I had in Italy was in FORMIA, a bit outside of Naples.  It was made in a HUGE, DEEP oven. and shaped into a LONG rectangle.  You bought it by the inch.  The pizza was pulled out on the counter and lined up with marks on the counter and cut to the size you want.  You bought it and continued with your "passegiata", eating and walking.  It ALWAYS was crisp, though at the same time it retained the softness of Italian dough, hard to explain really.


It's called "pizza al metro", a style which originated in Rome. These pies are often baked in the 500-600 degree range; they get the crispy outside and soft inside by using very, very high hydration levels (85% or higher).

JLP
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

scott123

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2011, 11:21:21 AM »
Well, my significant other tells our help to grate the chesee and then spread it out on sheet pans in order to dry it out.........DRY IT OUT!?!?!?!

Whoah, that's criminal.  Do they do this with parm? I'm not sure I could put up with this. It would have to be a really big paycheck to be able to put with that kind of ignorance.  Even then, I'd probably still be counting the seconds until I could become my own boss.


Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2011, 01:47:49 PM »
Well, thats funny....I admit, Pecorino is MUCH more utilized in pizzerias (ny/nh style at least) than parm.  Pecorino is much saltier, so it acts like using salt to flavor pizza....plus many toppings are aggressive in flavor by nature, so Parmigiano would be lost.  BUT...

I would LOVE to bring in Parmigiano for pizza.  I use it for pasta, but its not allowed in pizza.  For any  pizza with a white sauce, fall vegetables, proscuito, sweet items of some kind....nuts...it woud be KILLER.....but...why BOTHER GRINDING YET ANOTHER CHEESE.........It gets frustrating as hell.  And then when the review come in and they don't wax poetically about the pizza, I get despair and pouting.  You should have seen the battle I got for bringing in STANILAUS......JEEZ.....
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 01:55:29 PM by gabaghool »

Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2011, 01:58:43 PM »
Thanks Pedro........
That IS the name, I remember now.....85%  how the heck do you work with that!!! Thats the highest I've read except for a baker in a Portland Maine Italian store that makes something called a SLAB slice. Very thick, very soft, moist, he uses 90%! I beleive the place is called Miccuci's....its on my radar to try.

scott123

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2011, 02:08:04 PM »
...plus many toppings are aggressive in flavor by nature, so Parmigiano would be lost.

Tell that to Dom DeMarco. If you ever seen videos of him, he seems to be grating parm for hours. That and snipping basil with his kitchen shears. As far as I know, every pie gets parm.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2011, 02:12:01 PM »
Yep...I know...and I always wondered why he used parm instead of Pecorino.  I can see parm on a plain tomato and mooz pie, actually see a COMBO even clearer. But as a Reggiano Parmigiano FAN, big time, I love it even as a dessert cheese, I clearly prefer Pecorino to Parm FOR MOST PIES, but not all.

Doesnt he use GRANA??

Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2011, 02:29:18 PM »
Scott
If you like, check out SLICE.  Article on Pizzeria Lola.  NH/NY/NEO style cooked in a wood burning oven.
Took the SAN FRAN pizza school classes.  Hard to believe an ex actress could open a pizzeria to such acclaim after a week long class.  BUt, pizzas look good......wood burning oven again........this will be a difficult decision.

Offline RobynB

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2011, 02:17:20 PM »
If you go to learn, and you are a good learner, you can learn a LOT from Tony in a week.

scott123

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2011, 02:45:27 PM »
No offense, Robyn, but I completely disagree.  Especially in Nick's case.  I think, right now, Nick knows more about pizza than Tony does.  Tony knows a heck of a lot about throwing dough, and, if someone were interested in throwing, Tony would be THE guy to train with, but for pizza making, perhaps the school would be good for a beginner, but not for a successful pizzeria owner in the tri state area.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: PUZZLING
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2011, 12:10:45 PM »
Wow...thank you Scott......................but I must admit..............i know LESS than 90% of the people on this site.......See, I can MAKE pizza, albeit I want to improve it greatly.....but people on HERE know WHY this does this or that.....and while I know a little about the science, the people on here are ........UNBELIEVABLE.  I NEED to catch up....to learn.....and I know my constant questions can be annoying.  I wish I could trade off knowledge..

Like if people let me bug them about pizza, I will answer ANY questions about the BUSINESS of pizza....how the process changes when you take it out of your home and put it into a commercial environment .  That way I don't feel like such a taker.


Scott, do you think it would be ...uhm....I don't know the word.....WRONG, or POMPOUS to start a thread about THE PIZZA BUSINESS A TO Z.....so I can HELP someone who is thinking about it by telling them my story....IN EXCHANGE for a mindnumbing amount of questions from ME?  I mean, you've been so patient with me...WFO or deck, NY style, NH style, now Im reading on Pizzarium style.....it all interests me.   ANd I feel Im making a pest out of myself....so I only have my experience to trade.


Oh, and that bums me out about the SF school, I actually would have liked to go......So I guess Goodfellas school is out too, huh?  How about a baking class at the french culinary school in NY or Cia?  They have mini courses, think that would help me with the science of pizza, even though I've seen you write that the two are different??


 

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