Author Topic: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough  (Read 8072 times)

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Offline AgPie

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Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« on: September 08, 2011, 08:02:34 AM »
I am looking for a mixer, mainly to be used for making bread and pizza dough.
As I have been reading this forum, there are issues with both Bosh and DLX mixers regarding their ability/disability. Bosch is said to be better for low hydration dough (upto 65%) and DLX seems better for high hydration (65% and up).
Is there any mixer that can do any hydration and at the same time do small batches as well.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 08:38:33 AM »
There are reports that the bosch with the metal dough bowl, made specifically for dough can do high hydration doughs.   The smallest batch the bosch can do is approximately 400gm.

Chau

Offline AgPie

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 09:23:27 AM »
Chau, any information on the highest hydration that Bosch metal dough bowl can handle. Any specific link for this info. Also there is another option of older model Bosch Mixer Stainless Steel Bowl, without center column ("ER1"). Is it any better than the newer version?
Link is here http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/bumpers_on_u-plus.aspx
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 09:45:04 AM by AgPie »

Offline scott r

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 10:14:25 AM »
The older style bowl without the center column is the one you would want for higher hydration.   Beware, as the other metal bowl offered by bosch is the same as the plastic one....just made out of metal.   I have not personally tested the old style bowl, so I am not sure how much better it works.   Maybe someone with one will chime in with their experiences.   I am pretty sure you can buy an old style metal bowl without the center column that will fit on the new universal plus.   

A globe sp5, or a hobart n50 should be great at a wide range of hydrations.   also the esmach sp5 spiral mixer I have is great with a very wide range, and built to last forever.   

Offline AgPie

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 01:05:33 PM »
why is hobart N50 5x the price of Bosch and 3.5x as compared to DLX. Is it that good ? what are the things that it can do, that a Bosch or DLX can't

Offline scott r

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 02:29:39 PM »
I would never buy a new n50, I see them used for about the same as a dlx.    been around forever.   What it can do that is special is make great dough through a wider range of hydrations.  The n50 or the globe sp5 are just mini versions of the planetary mixers used in 99% of pizzerias around the country....

Offline AgPie

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 03:01:22 PM »
I would never buy a new n50, I see them used for about the same as a dlx.    been around forever.   What it can do that is special is make great dough through a wider range of hydrations.  The n50 or the globe sp5 are just mini versions of the planetary mixers used in 99% of pizzerias around the country....

scott, are you game for dlx over bosch ?

Offline scott r

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 03:24:18 PM »
only if you like high hydrations.    If I could only have one mixer it would be my hands :) .... still the best!

Offline AgPie

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2011, 04:32:49 AM »
only if you like high hydrations.    If I could only have one mixer it would be my hands :) .... still the best!

can I borrow your hands for some time   >:D


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 09:09:55 AM »
Chau, any information on the highest hydration that Bosch metal dough bowl can handle. Any specific link for this info. Also there is another option of older model Bosch Mixer Stainless Steel Bowl, without center column ("ER1"). Is it any better than the newer version?
Link is here http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/bumpers_on_u-plus.aspx

AgPie check out dmaxdmax's response here at reply 5,

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14795.0.html


Chau

Offline AgPie

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2011, 12:53:12 PM »
AgPie check out dmaxdmax's response here at reply 5,

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14795.0.html


Chau

Thanks Chau. It was useful

Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2011, 04:18:13 PM »
I just re-read my own post to make sure I hadn't changed my opinion and indeed I have not.  I love the thing but only with the specialty ss bowl.

A nice benefit is that it's lightweight enough to fit on an under-counter plastic lazy susan which would be crushed by our 15 year-old KA.
Always make new mistakes.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 05:41:35 PM »
For small batches,     I love the Bosch compact.  I have the older Bosch Universal as well, but think the compact does a better job for small batches, and also handles high hydration better than the Universal.  I usually make 2 or 3 small batches,( 200 grams of wheat flour ) one right after the other, each weekend when I experiment with different ratios of different types of wheat , and  do 75% hydration with no problems.  It can probably handle much bigger loads,  though not sure of the upper limit.

Offline AgPie

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2011, 10:03:53 AM »
I just re-read my own post to make sure I hadn't changed my opinion and indeed I have not.  I love the thing but only with the specialty ss bowl.

A nice benefit is that it's lightweight enough to fit on an under-counter plastic lazy susan which would be crushed by our 15 year-old KA.

how do you fit this ss bowl on the newer bosch

Offline AgPie

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2011, 10:07:12 AM »
For small batches,     I love the Bosch compact.  I have the older Bosch Universal as well, but think the compact does a better job for small batches, and also handles high hydration better than the Universal.  I usually make 2 or 3 small batches,( 200 grams of wheat flour ) one right after the other, each weekend when I experiment with different ratios of different types of wheat , and  do 75% hydration with no problems.  It can probably handle much bigger loads,  though not sure of the upper limit.

there is not much to read about the Bosch Compact, anywhere even in this forum

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2011, 03:13:41 PM »
Agreed that there is not much on the compact on this forum, you can find a little more on the Perfect Loaf http://www.thefreshloaf.com/  .  The posters there have a lot of positive things to say.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19731/bosch-compact-mixer  I am surprised that you don't see much more discussion here. since it ideal for those of us that experiment -  you can make many small batches with no fuss.  With the Universal, ( old version ) you are locked into bigger batches.
 

buceriasdon

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2011, 07:17:23 PM »
One thing I have noticed about the Bosch Compact Mixer is lack of availability from time to time. Currently Amazon does not list it as available. I'm not saying it's not out there just that three sites I have checked in with say they have none in stock.
Don

Agreed that there is not much on the compact on this forum, you can find a little more on the Perfect Loaf http://www.thefreshloaf.com/  .  The posters there have a lot of positive things to say.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19731/bosch-compact-mixer  I am surprised that you don't see much more discussion here. since it ideal for those of us that experiment -  you can make many small batches with no fuss.  With the Universal, ( old version ) you are locked into bigger batches.
 


Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2011, 08:38:14 PM »
Don, you are a step ahead of me,  I just checked several sites, and another forum, and apparently it can only be found as a package for a ton of money, or at overstock for $210 -  it was about $160 when I bought mine earlier this year - but it apparently comes in, then sells out, and the pricing goes up.

Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 11:18:40 PM »
how do you fit this ss bowl on the newer bosch

Sorry for the slow response. I've been AWOL

I dunno - it just fits.
Always make new mistakes.

Offline steel_baker

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2011, 08:37:57 PM »
I currently use a Bosch Universal Plus with the new style SS bowl for my dough. I use 409g of bread flour per batch at 67% hydration with no issues.

Don't know what the alleged issue would be with higher hydration dough. ???
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2011, 10:34:27 PM »
I currently use a Bosch Universal Plus with the new style SS bowl for my dough. I use 409g of bread flour per batch at 67% hydration with no issues.

Don't know what the alleged issue would be with higher hydration dough. ???

Not sure about the SS "dough" bowl, but the regular mixing bowl where the mixing arm attaches at the top (SS or plastic) does not do high hydration doughs.  The dough wraps itself along the center post and does not mix.  This is with a small batch of about 500-600gm.  I'm not sure about a bigger batch of high hydration dough though. It may mix just fine.  ???

Offline steel_baker

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2011, 07:28:49 AM »
Not sure about the SS "dough" bowl, but the regular mixing bowl where the mixing arm attaches at the top (SS or plastic) does not do high hydration doughs.  The dough wraps itself along the center post and does not mix.  This is with a small batch of about 500-600gm.  I'm not sure about a bigger batch of high hydration dough though. It may mix just fine.  ???

I don't have the dough bowl. I use the regular SS bowl with the center shaft. No issues. My batches are 409g of flour @ 67% so certainly not large. It does wrap around the center shaft but it also mixes just fine. It grabs the center shaft and the dough hook then stretches the dough ball. Seems like the proper kneading action to me and my doughs always come out like silk. I receive many compliments on my pizza dough. Check out the youtube video I posted above. It shows the bowl in action from above. The end of the video also shows the beautiful crumb of the baked dough. Been using the BUP with this size batch of high hydration dough for well over a year now with excellent results.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2011, 08:22:14 AM »
SB, I don't see the YT video you are referencing.  I would love to see a video of your 409gm batch mixed in your Bosch, the resulting dough, and the final crumb. 
How long are you mixing for? Does the dough stay wrapped up the entire time, or does it come down at some point?

Thanks,
Chau


Offline steel_baker

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2011, 08:42:01 AM »
SB, I don't see the YT video you are referencing.  I would love to see a video of your 409gm batch mixed in your Bosch, the resulting dough, and the final crumb.  
How long are you mixing for? Does the dough stay wrapped up the entire time, or does it come down at some point?

Thanks,
Chau



I pulse until the dough ball comes together, rest for 15 mins, then knead for 6 mins. The dough generally stays wrapped the entire time which in my understanding is how the mixer is supposed to work because it provides the necessary stretching of the gluten strands.

The link to the video is in my post from last evening:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11962.msg161442.html#msg161442

steel_baker
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline tikidoc

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Re: Best mixer for low to high hydration dough
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2011, 01:14:52 PM »
I have both the Bosch Compact and the new DLX.  I have had the Bosch for a while, and it is an impressive little mixer.  Beats the crap out of my old KA (pun intended) which died 6 months ago or so.  It looks like a toy and it is very lightweight but the motor is powerful.  I have done both high hydration doughs such as ciabattas, as well as fairly dense bagel doughs with good success.  Once the dough comes together in a ball, you have to hold the thing on the counter or it will bounce right off but if you can accept that and you don't much care that it looks really cheap, it is a great little mixer for the money.

I am still learning with the DLX but so far I like it.  It is easier to make a high hydration dough with this mixer (with the exception of bagels, I tend to make more high hydration doughs in general), and you can just walk away and let it go.  It requires a bit more fussing with drier doughs, but you can still make them very successfully.  I have done my usual bagel recipe (59% hydration), and I started with the scraper/mixer part then switched to the dough hook as it came together.  

Jess

ETA - The DLX has done fine with smaller batches (so far, have just done a couple times).  My ciabatta recipe uses 500 gm flour and it comes together no problem with the DLX.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 01:18:06 PM by tikidoc »


 

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