Author Topic: New Haven style pizza dough  (Read 4647 times)

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Offline cmhanley

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New Haven style pizza dough
« on: September 08, 2011, 10:40:29 AM »
Does anyone have a New Haven style dough recipe?


Offline gabaghool

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 06:48:40 PM »
bread flour 100%
ice water 63%
yeast, fresh 1%
salt, kosher 2%
sugar 1%

Combine all ingrediants but flour.  Don't worry about the salt killing the yeast.  It won't. (But some posters say it will toughen the dough...don't know if thats true.  Mix for a minute to combine.

Add flour.  Mix on low speed for 8 minutes.  It should be smooth.  IF you use hi gluten flour, mix a bit less.
Divide dough into your size weights.  Coat with oil or non stick spray, place in container and cover with plastic or container snap on lid.  Let sit AT THE VERY, VERY LEAST 24 hours, 48 better, 72 best of all.

Proceed as you wish.

NH style pizza is generally split on the type of flour.  Its either hi gluten or bread, with bread flour being a bit more popular.  When made into skins, its generally a tiny bit thicker than NY style...appr 10-11 oz for a 12 inch pizza.  Another NH thing is the cornichone.  In NH style pizza, the dough isn't really stretched until the very end.  To make a skin, the dough is removed a few hours before using.  Do not use it cold.  It is then basically PRESSED out, with fingers apart.  The middle of the dough is left alone..the finished dough SHOULD have a bit of a bump in the center.  Unlike some NY style skins I've seen made, the edge is KNOCKED DOWN, with spread fingers so that some edge is pressed down and some edge remains puffy.  After the skin has been pressed down, more or less round, the dough is picked up, and, with the very tips of your fingers, THE EDGE is stretched out, NOT THE WHOLE DOUGH.  You are not simple pulling your hands apart with the draped dough, but concentrating on pulling apart SIMPLY the edge.  I know it sounds complicated, but Im not a good writer, so I apologize.  Its just important to know that the edge of a NH pizza DOESN'T have a concentrated EDGE.  In other words you don't TRY to form a corn.  In NEO pizza it is puffy and exaggerated.  NH is the opposite.  You will naturally get an edge, since it isn't covered with sauce and cheese, but no where that big huge puff you get when you form it in the dough on purpose.....understand?  Sorry again.

Hope that helps.

Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2011, 11:44:36 AM »
Salt CAN kill yeast if you really push it.

If you are new to pizza making I would not use ice water, try and match the temperature of the water and yeast and the salt towards the end of the mixing process. That's just my opinion. 



Offline gabaghool

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2011, 04:33:35 PM »
Salt CAN kill yeast if you really push it.

If you are new to pizza making I would not use ice water, try and match the temperature of the water and yeast and the salt towards the end of the mixing process. That's just my opinion. 



Yeah, youre right, but in over 10 years of pizzamaking on a commercial level, it never has....we've even TRIED and the yeast was ok.....don't have an answer.  We use ice simply to allow the dough to ferment for three days without getting overblown....but, he's right...most posters on here try to set the final dough at...what...80*?

But, in all the NH places I've worked its ALWAYS with ice water....more in the summer, less in the winter...and again this is for NH style dough only.......don't know about the others.  I know that Neo dough is made and used the same day, no??

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2011, 05:26:07 PM »
The way that Nick is stirring the yeast (cake yeast), salt and water together for about a minute is unlikely to cause much harm. As noted in Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2411.msg21056/topicseen.html#msg21056, it is the prolonged physical contact that can cause harm, as by scaling and combining the salt and yeast in advance or letting the mixture sit for too long. If Nick saw that some of the yeast was being harmed and did not want to change his mixing regimen, he could add a bit more yeast to compensate for the loss. Also, cake yeast, which has a moisture content of about 70%, goes to work more quickly than dry yeast. It also tolerates cold water better than the dry yeasts.

The usual targeted finished dough temperature for a dough that is to be cold fermented in a commercial cooler is about 80-85 degrees F. For a home setting, where a standard refrigerator is to be used, the targeted finished dough temperature for a dough that is to be cold fermented is 75-80 degrees F. The difference is because a standard home refrigerator runs several degrees warmer than a commercial cooler.

The Neapolitan doughs are fermented at room temperature. There are many measures that can be taken to control the fermentation process by skilled pizzaioli, which is one of the reasons why they are revered for what they do. And they are not paid what we would call minimum wage in the U.S.

Peter
 

Offline gabaghool

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2011, 05:31:42 PM »
Thanks Pete, its nice to read, what I WAS TRYING TO WRITE, a post from a man who can explain himself.....if amazing the stuff you know, honestly.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2011, 05:42:00 PM »
Thank you, Nick. Some of us have enough time to learn things. It would be lot different if I had a job like yours. Knowing the hows and whys is nice but it is a luxury. What is more important is being able to make a good living with what you do. Income pays the bills, not knowledge.

Peter

Offline gabaghool

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2011, 05:52:43 PM »
Yeah, Pete....I know.....and I think you kinda got the handle on what my dilemna is right now....and its a HUGE one....one that you must be living to realize just how HUGE it is.
You might consider yourself as "ah,money don't mean much to me", like I do, but when you are trying to make a decision that will stop a good income in favor of doing something you like better, u find yourself liking money a hell of a lot more.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2011, 06:42:30 PM »
Nick,

I think you have to find the happy compromise between doing something you love or have a passion for and doing something that may not be as pleasurable but pays much better money. It's when the choice becomes "either" "or" that you reach decision crunch time. I am a capitalist at heart so I would perhaps go with the money. It's like when I am counselling young people who are going to college. I tell them to find out where the best paying jobs are expected to be over the next decade or so and try to pick one of those jobs that they think they would like and, if they have the needed basic skills (like being good at math and science), to select a major that will lead them to a job in the selected field. I personally am not an advocate of doing something you love and make no money at it. I can always find hobbies to keep me interested and passionate about something.

Peter

Offline gabaghool

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 07:11:49 PM »
Thanks pete.  Scott123 told me something that rings true, but sad at the same time.  He basically said one can do something that makes him great or one that makes him rich.....in the food industry, of course.  And while I don't think that is 100% of the time, I think thats pretty right on for the most part.  Funny thing is, when I was getting great reviews, I wished I could pay my bills, and now that I make more than I ever dreamed of, I wish I could win awards again.

And its not like we don't win any, we are up for restaurant of the year from the Restaurant Association, but I would win top ten in other restaurants I had.....just had a hard time paying bills.

Pizza though, I think is ONE area in the restaurant biz that it IS possible to achieve both.  I just have to piece together the right information and concept.  And, of course, there is the age factor and I've broken 50.  That is what is so amazing about Paulie G.  It takes a TON of physical stamina to start off.  ESPECIALLY when its your first.  But, again, I think pizza, with its popularity, favorable food cost and my interest in it, is a possiblity.  Or I can sit here, be unfullfilled, and simply gut out a few years, sell out and THEN do something with it that I would do for the love of it, not for the financial gain.

Thanks Pete.


Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 08:57:54 PM »
Yeah, youre right, but in over 10 years of pizzamaking on a commercial level, it never has....we've even TRIED and the yeast was ok.....don't have an answer.  We use ice simply to allow the dough to ferment for three days without getting overblown....but, he's right...most posters on here try to set the final dough at...what...80*?

But, in all the NH places I've worked its ALWAYS with ice water....more in the summer, less in the winter...and again this is for NH style dough only.......don't know about the others.  I know that Neo dough is made and used the same day, no??

What you're saying is fine, I'm just saying if someone is new to pizza and maybe the Original Poster is, maybe he isn't, he or she could end up with saltine crackers not pizza. 

Offline olsonmatt

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Re: New Haven style pizza dough
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 03:47:24 PM »
Nick and Pete,

This is great stuff -- it transcends pizza making, but it's obvious that to so many people here (myself included), pizza is a lot more than just a delicious food.  It's an art, a passion, to some a money-maker, and to a lot of people like me, it represents a dream.  Nick, it sounds like you've already come a long way with it.  I bet your frustration is just a function of the dedication and drive that will keep you going for as long as you want.  I hope to have even a fraction of success making a living off my passion.

On a lighter note, thanks for breaking down the New Haven dough in simple terms!