Author Topic: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps (Read 30286 times)

TONY · « **on:** June 24, 2005, 11:03:22 AM »

Does anyone know how All Trumps compairs to King Arthur Sir Lancelot?.............Believe it or not there are no distributers that carry KASL in California!!!

Randy · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2005, 11:55:10 AM »

Tony, Steve I think uses Al Trump and really likes it. Here is a thread from the past.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1187.0.html

Randy

TONY · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2005, 12:18:43 PM »

COOL............THANKS RANDY!

TONY

scott r · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2005, 12:42:45 PM »

If you dig back deep into some of the old posts you will find some opinions that KASL is a little better than all trumps. Having said that, I have used all trumps in the past, and have found it to be great. I also know that some of the best crusts from real pizzerias I have had were made with it. I think there is a version that is non bromated, unbleached. If you have the option, try to go with that one. I think you will really like it.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2005, 12:52:15 PM »

I agree with everything scott r has said. I looked at the All Trumps specs at the General Mills product website, and the All Trumps flour has 14.2% plus or minus 0.3% protein, which is fairly close to the KASL 14.2% plus or minus 0.2%. Both the KASL and All Trumps are milled from hard red spring wheat. Both flours are malted.

Scott is also correct that there is an unbleached, non-bromated All Trumps flour. Its product code is 50143 according to the data at the General Mills product website.

Peter

pizza truck · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2005, 07:20:01 AM »

One other flour I would add to this discussion is Champlain Valley Mills Organic High Gluten Bread Flour - the best tasting crust yet. It is about double the cost of All Trumps however.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2005, 04:13:03 PM »

I noticed recently at the PennMac website (at pennmac.com, under the Pizza Makers tab) that PennMac now carries the All Trumps high-gluten flour not only in 50-pound bags but also in 5-pound bags (repackaged). All Trumps high-gluten flour may well be the most popular high-gluten flour used by pizza operators, especially for the NY style.

I had a chance to speak with Rose at PennMac today and asked her whether the All Trumps high-gluten flour offered by PennMac is bromated. It is. Interestingly, some pizza operators, mainly those who make thick-crust pizzas, like Sicilian pizzas, actually prefer the bromated flour because it supposedly produces a higher-rising dough.

Peter

Steve · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2005, 08:12:51 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on July 22, 2005, 04:13:03 PM

I noticed recently at the PennMac website (at pennmac.com, under the Pizza Makers tab) that PennMac now carries the All Trumps high-gluten flour not only in 50-pound bags but also in 5-pound bags (repackaged). All Trumps high-gluten flour may well be the most popular high-gluten flour used by pizza operators, especially for the NY style.

I had a chance to speak with Rose at PennMac today and asked her whether the All Trumps high-gluten flour offered by PennMac is bromated. It is. Interestingly, some pizza operators, mainly those who make thick-crust pizzas, like Sicilian pizzas, actually prefer the bromated flour because it supposedly produces a higher-rising dough.

Peter

I still prefer the Sir Lancelot. But, All-Trumps isn't too bad.

suprchunk · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2005, 11:27:05 AM »

Quote from: TONY on June 24, 2005, 11:03:22 AM

Believe it or not there are no distributers that carry KASL in California!!!

Yes there is

Food Source International
services CA
888-889-9282

freshflour · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2005, 08:22:19 PM »

I've been using KA SL or Italian Style flour for a while. However, I noticed that Costco sells the GM All Trumps flour in a 25lb bag for about $6. I don't think I can beat that price on the KASL anywhere.

Christopher · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2005, 11:26:27 PM »

hey, guys,
does anyone know if the All-Trumps carried at Costco is the bromated variety?
i was hoping to get over and see if the store near me carries it.

thanks,
Christopher

freshflour · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2005, 12:27:43 PM »

I don't know. I'll make sure I check the next time I'm over there.

Christopher · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2005, 11:39:30 PM »

thanks, freshflour,
we went to the costco near us and they did not carry all-trumps, at least i did not see it. they did have hi-gluten by conagra foods so i picked up a 25 lb. bag to try out. i have my first batch of dough rising as i write this. i will see how the flavor comes out tomorrow compared to the KA bread flour i have been using.
christopher

pam · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2005, 09:25:33 PM »

Quote from: Christopher on November 26, 2005, 11:39:30 PM

thanks, freshflour,
we went to the costco near us and they did not carry all-trumps, at least i did not see it. they did have hi-gluten by conagra foods so i picked up a 25 lb. bag to try out

The Costco here in Durham, NC doesn't carry All Trumps either. The Conagra flour labelled "high gluten" they carry here lists the protein content as 3g/serving (30g serving size), i.e., 10% protein. Even Kroger Bread Flour is higher in gluten than that (4g/30g serving = 13.33%). Just about every flour chart I've seen classifes 9-12%% protein content as All Purpose flour, and 12-13 or 13.5% as Bread flour, so if the nutritional information on the label is correct, it doesn't even qualify as bread flour.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2005, 12:09:55 AM »

pam,

I have learned that you have to view protein information on labels for flour with a degree of suspicion. Some time ago, I found this excerpt from baking911.com:

If you find the protein content, nutrition labeling requirements aren't designed to reveal the precise percentage on its bag. They're designed to give approximate amounts, rounded to the nearest gram per 1/4 cup. For example, a flour with 2.7 grams of protein per 1/4 cup and a flour with 3.3 grams of protein per 1/4 cup would both bear nutrition labels reading 3 grams per 1/4 cup. However, the exact protein level of the second flour is nearly 20 percent higher than the first. To learn the exact protein level to the nearest tenth of a percent, you must contact the flour company and ask .

Peter

Christopher · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2005, 05:36:02 PM »

alright, guys,
this may be a dumb question, but after trying to find some answers i am still in the dark as to what the bromating process? i understand it is chemical and listed as a possible cancer causing agent, but why? also does a package list that it is bromated or are there ways to tell?
i guess if i had to pick a word for the glossary it would be bromated.

thanks for any info.
christopher

pam · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2005, 05:47:40 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on November 28, 2005, 12:09:55 AM

pam,

I have learned that you have to view protein information on labels for flour with a degree of suspicion. Some time ago, I found this excerpt from baking911.com:

If you find the protein content, nutrition labeling requirements aren't designed to reveal the precise percentage on its bag. They're designed to give approximate amounts, rounded to the nearest gram per 1/4 cup. For example, a flour with 2.7 grams of protein per 1/4 cup and a flour with 3.3 grams of protein per 1/4 cup would both bear nutrition labels reading 3 grams per 1/4 cup..

Pete-zza,

I realize that, but assumed that the variance due to rounding was common knowledge.

Even taking that into account, though, based on Conagra's claim of 3g protein per 1/4 oz, it is not unreasonable to assume that the protein content of the flour is no greater than 3.49g/ 1/4 cup, since convention dictates that 3.5+ would be rounded up to 4g (note, however, that most of the nutritional guides I've seen specify than numbers ±.3 or a whole number are rounded to the nearest whole gram, and numbers in the .31-.69 range are rounded to the nearest .5 gram: e.g. 2.7-3.3 = 3; 3.31-3.69 = 3.5; 3.7-4.3 = 4). Even if we stretch the range to allow 3.49g per 1/4 cup to be reported as 3g, it's still only 11.67% protein content. I don't know whether you've come across any reference chart that would classify that as "high gluten," but I haven't.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2005, 07:24:03 PM »

pam,

Not knowing which ConAgra flour is carried by Costco's, I didn't follow the math closely enough to see whether one could get to a level of protein that might be considered "high gluten". I did a Google search and saw that Costco apparently sells a ConAgra flour called Full Power, which I understand to be a high-gluten flour. I was able to find several other brands of high-gluten flour at the ConAgra website, but not the Full Power brand. It's possible that the Full Power brand is sold only to private brand accounts, such as Costco's. If the flour you were talking about is the Full Power brand of high-gluten flour, I am at a loss to understand why the labeling information is not consistent with the flour in the bag. Your analysis correctly identifies the problem. But you aren't the only one to be perplexed. When I did a PMQ search to try to find more information on the ConAgra flours, I came upon this Q&A:

http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/noframes/read/13874.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2005, 09:24:35 PM »

Christopher,

Some flours are treated with potassium bromate, which is an oxidizing agent that strengthens dough so that it doesn't collapse between the time that it proofs and is to be baked. Consequently, the dough can have an improved oven spring. The problem with the bromate is that it has been linked to cancer in laboratory animals, including tumors of the kidney, thyroid, and other organs. Several countries, including Canada and many European countries (and the EU) have banned bromates. California requires that products including bromates be labeled to that effect, and the product is on the state's list of carcinogens. Instead of banning bromate, since 1991 the FDA has tried to convince bakers to voluntarily stop using it. It has achieved only modest success. Flours that are bromated are labeled as such on the packaging.

Peter

pam · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2005, 09:30:15 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on November 28, 2005, 07:24:03 PM

pam,

Not knowing which ConAgra flour is carried by Costco's, I didn't follow the math closely enough to see whether one could get to a level of protein that might be considered "high gluten". I did a Google search and saw that Costco apparently sells a ConAgra flour called Full Power, which I understand to be a high-gluten flour. I was able to find several other brands of high-gluten flour at the ConAgra website, but not the Full Power brand. It's possible that the Full Power brand is sold only to private brand accounts, such as Costco's. If the flour you were talking about is the Full Power brand of high-gluten flour, I am at a loss to understand why the labeling information is not consistent with the flour in the bag. Your analysis correctly identifies the problem. But you aren't the only one to be perplexed. When I did a PMQ search to try to find more information on the ConAgra flours, I came upon this Q&A:

http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/noframes/read/13874.

Peter

The Conagra flour I saw wasn't labeled "Full Power," and it didn't have any of the Conagra-brand labels (Kyrol, Producer, Minnesota Girl) on it either: just a plain white bag saying ConAgra and "High Gluten Flour", so I'm guessing it's a private brand. There was also a pallet of ConAgra "Hotel and Restaurant Flour" beside the "High Gluten" that had identical info (numbers) on the nutrition label to those on the High Gluten label.