Author Topic: same methods....different hydration!!!  (Read 15040 times)

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Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2011, 10:17:04 PM »
I had a great week experimenting with these doughs.  In the back of my mind though was the thought they would age very quickly given the level of prefermented flour they had.  But, really all I noticed is that when you get to days 4 and 5, the dough really resists being reballed...but I prevailed and was rewarded with excellent pizza.  Again, with this dough I wanted a great tasting dough in a shorter amount of time..and the results were great...but now knowing the dough ages well it's like an extra bonus.  The following is a breakfast pizza we had Monday...the dough had been in the fridge 5 days.

John



Offline texmex

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2011, 01:55:11 PM »
Your pies are looking great Reesa! Dallas Cowgirls... not so much...

Craig
Thanks Craig...
Damn that squirrely football.
Reesa

Offline texmex

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2011, 01:56:17 PM »
I had a great week experimenting with these doughs.  In the back of my mind though was the thought they would age very quickly given the level of prefermented flour they had.  But, really all I noticed is that when you get to days 4 and 5, the dough really resists being reballed...but I prevailed and was rewarded with excellent pizza.  Again, with this dough I wanted a great tasting dough in a shorter amount of time..and the results were great...but now knowing the dough ages well it's like an extra bonus.  The following is a breakfast pizza we had Monday...the dough had been in the fridge 5 days.

John



I appreciate the update on fighting the reball...without this info, I might be tempted to toss the dough if it was fighting me.
Reesa

Offline eloise

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2011, 02:30:40 PM »
John,
Your pizza looks great and I like the fact that it is crisp and doesn't flop. Are you using Caputo 00 flour or KABF?  Do you think this dough would perform as well in a WF brick oven with a temperature of 800 degrees?  Have you ever tried a combination of the two types of flours?  Thanks. :-\

eloise

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2011, 03:13:53 AM »
John,
Your pizza looks great and I like the fact that it is crisp and doesn't flop. Are you using Caputo 00 flour or KABF?  Do you think this dough would perform as well in a WF brick oven with a temperature of 800 degrees?  Have you ever tried a combination of the two types of flours?  Thanks. :-\

eloise
I've just been using straight KABF lately......I don't know about an 800 degree oven...I can get my home oven up to about 610 degrees.  Wednesday I baked one in under 4 minutes ...it was golden brown, crisp and tender......so I don't know how to answer your question regarding a hotter oven..My guess though, is that it will burn.

John

Offline texmex

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2011, 05:54:08 PM »
I've just been using straight KABF lately......I don't know about an 800 degree oven...I can get my home oven up to about 610 degrees.  Wednesday I baked one in under 4 minutes ...it was golden brown, crisp and tender......so I don't know how to answer your question regarding a hotter oven..My guess though, is that it will burn.

John

I would think it will burn as well in a WFO, since 700 degree temps were seriously scorching (burnt black  :-D in some spots) the bottoms of my pies. 
Reesa

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2011, 10:45:09 PM »
I would think it will burn as well in a WFO, since 700 degree temps were seriously scorching (burnt black  :-D in some spots) the bottoms of my pies.  

One thing I've learned is that I'm not very good at predicting outcomes when it comes to dough...so, i guess that means you just keep experimenting!!

I made a 62% dough this week using 33% prefermented flour (poolish).  I baked the following pizza in my home oven 19 hours after I started the poolish.....pretty darned good pizza, with great flavor...and the pizzas just got better as the week went on...the quality of the doughs don't improve at such a great rate as they age using the poolish.

John


Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2011, 10:43:29 PM »
John,
Your pizza looks great and I like the fact that it is crisp and doesn't flop. Are you using Caputo 00 flour or KABF?  Do you think this dough would perform as well in a WF brick oven with a temperature of 800 degrees?  Have you ever tried a combination of the two types of flours?  Thanks. :-\

eloise

Eloise
Your question got me to wondering...I have a demon like deck oven at work I can get up to 750 degrees, so I thought I would try my last dough of the week in a very hot oven.  This dough was in the fridge 5 days and was reballed the night before.  It was baked at 752 degrees.....after two minutes I threw a screen under it to make sure I didn't scorch it, and it came out at the 3 minutes mark.  This hot of a bake changes the pizza entirely...it is now much more chewy and floppy....I still prefer a slower bake in a cooler oven to obtain nice crispness on the bottom.

John


Offline eloise

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2011, 11:04:24 AM »
John,
Last night we made dough using a totally new flour. We tried Apollo high gluten flour, adding olive oil and sugar.
It is strictly an experiment and deviating from the Neopolitan recipe. Tonight we'll make pizza and I'll let you know the result. 

Thanks,
eloise :-\

Offline eloise

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2011, 08:54:44 PM »
Eloise
Your question got me to wondering...I have a demon like deck oven at work I can get up to 750 degrees, so I thought I would try my last dough of the week in a very hot oven.  This dough was in the fridge 5 days and was reballed the night before.  It was baked at 752 degrees.....after two minutes I threw a screen under it to make sure I didn't scorch it, and it came out at the 3 minutes mark.  This hot of a bake changes the pizza entirely...it is now much more chewy and floppy....I still prefer a slower bake in a cooler oven to obtain nice crispness on the bottom.

John



Well John, I can't say that I was satisfied with the dough made with the Apollo high gluten flour. Of course my recipe was not followed correctly.  The dough maker decided to increase the sugar and oil and decrease the water.  N.G. in my opinion.  It was puffy around the edge (cornicione) but still not cooked enough in the center. I'm wondering if it is because we're making a 18" pizza.  We're beginning to think that the floor of the wood burning oven isn't 800 degrees as the interior temperature is. Experimenting with this wood burning oven is really getting to be quite a challenge.  It seems we're back to square one, not knowing if it's a dough problem or an oven problem.  I'm ready to throw in the towel. :(


Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2011, 10:53:30 PM »
Well John, I can't say that I was satisfied with the dough made with the Apollo high gluten flour. Of course my recipe was not followed correctly.  The dough maker decided to increase the sugar and oil and decrease the water.  N.G. in my opinion.  It was puffy around the edge (cornicione) but still not cooked enough in the center. I'm wondering if it is because we're making a 18" pizza.  We're beginning to think that the floor of the wood burning oven isn't 800 degrees as the interior temperature is. Experimenting with this wood burning oven is really getting to be quite a challenge.  It seems we're back to square one, not knowing if it's a dough problem or an oven problem.  I'm ready to throw in the towel. :(

Throw in the towel???  You've got access to a wood burning oven.....have fun, experiment, make happy mistakes....throw in the towel?...that's not allowed.

John

Offline eloise

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2011, 10:31:20 AM »
I had a great week experimenting with these doughs.  In the back of my mind though was the thought they would age very quickly given the level of prefermented flour they had.  But, really all I noticed is that when you get to days 4 and 5, the dough really resists being reballed...but I prevailed and was rewarded with excellent pizza.  Again, with this dough I wanted a great tasting dough in a shorter amount of time..and the results were great...but now knowing the dough ages well it's like an extra bonus.  The following is a breakfast pizza we had Monday...the dough had been in the fridge 5 days.

John



John,
I noticed that you don't have any tomato sauce on your pizza.  What do you use for these toppings if you don't mind  giving away your secrets!!  They look soooo good.  I have never kept dough for more than two days.  I always thought the dough was considered "dead" by that time.  Why do you need to re-ball them?
PS:  I probably won't throw in the towel. :-[ Thank you for your incouragement.
eloise

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2011, 11:43:08 AM »
John,
I noticed that you don't have any tomato sauce on your pizza.  What do you use for these toppings if you don't mind  giving away your secrets!!  They look soooo good.  I have never kept dough for more than two days.  I always thought the dough was considered "dead" by that time.  Why do you need to re-ball them?
PS:  I probably won't throw in the towel. :-[ Thank you for your incouragement.
eloise
Alot of the time, we experiment with pizzas between 10:30 and 11am, and so one of the favorites around here is a very simple breakfast pizza.  So, the one above is a beaten egg, black pepper, diced ham, onion, green pepper, mushroom, romano and mozzarella cheeses, and a little pesto.....all mixed up and spread on the dough...
When I started this experiment, it began with a recipe that called for reballing...and since then I've found that the dough rises quite a bit over time, and the reballing simply is a good way for me to manage it better...because it blisters and has "huge" bubbles if you don't....and it really gives a better texture in my opinion.

John
John
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 11:45:52 AM by fazzari »

Offline ewalker

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2011, 11:31:31 AM »
John,
Thanks for sharing your recipe and all the amazing pictures. Yesterday I did the most amazing pizza ever. Second day trying my new Large BGE and the result was fantastic!

eWalker

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2011, 10:12:38 PM »
John,
Thanks for sharing your recipe and all the amazing pictures. Yesterday I did the most amazing pizza ever. Second day trying my new Large BGE and the result was fantastic!

eWalker

Glad it worked out well....
John

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2011, 05:24:33 PM »
I've been having fun experimenting with this dough.....62% hydration, using 33% prefermented flour (poolish) which sits about 16 hours.  After seeing Norma's pics of the Reinhart pizza baked in a pan, I couldn't resist the temptation to try.  Since this dough started as a Reinhart, I thought it would be similar to Norma's results.  This 26 ounce dough was baked in a 16 inch deep dish pan on a 550 degree deck.  The pizza was tender, tasty and everything I thought it would be.
John

Offline norma427

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2011, 06:02:37 PM »
John,

Your Reinhart dough baked in a pan looks great!  :) Did you oil your deep dish pan, and if you did, what did you oil it with?  Did you press the Reinhart dough in the pan or did you first stretch the dough?  Your bottom crust looks like it really browned evenly.  Great job!

I sure could eat a slice of your pie!

Norma
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Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2011, 01:34:53 AM »
Hey Norma
Way back when, I attended Tom lehmann's week long pizza seminar.  It was there that I learned that by using something such as butter flavored crisco on your pan...not only does your dough stick to the pan with n0 shrinkage, but you get the added butter flavor in your dough.  I recommend it highly

John

Offline norma427

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2011, 07:18:14 AM »
Hey Norma
Way back when, I attended Tom lehmann's week long pizza seminar.  It was there that I learned that by using something such as butter flavored crisco on your pan...not only does your dough stick to the pan with n0 shrinkage, but you get the added butter flavor in your dough.  I recommend it highly

John

John,

Thanks so much for the tip about the buttered flavored Crisco to oil the pan.  :) I never tried that before, but can imagine it does impart a buttery taste.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline pythonic

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2012, 04:05:32 PM »
This thread is awesome John.  Your poolish recipe has improved my crust 100 fold!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 04:07:06 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.