Author Topic: same methods....different hydration!!!  (Read 19629 times)

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Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2011, 10:53:30 PM »
Well John, I can't say that I was satisfied with the dough made with the Apollo high gluten flour. Of course my recipe was not followed correctly.  The dough maker decided to increase the sugar and oil and decrease the water.  N.G. in my opinion.  It was puffy around the edge (cornicione) but still not cooked enough in the center. I'm wondering if it is because we're making a 18" pizza.  We're beginning to think that the floor of the wood burning oven isn't 800 degrees as the interior temperature is. Experimenting with this wood burning oven is really getting to be quite a challenge.  It seems we're back to square one, not knowing if it's a dough problem or an oven problem.  I'm ready to throw in the towel. :(

Throw in the towel???  You've got access to a wood burning oven.....have fun, experiment, make happy mistakes....throw in the towel?...that's not allowed.

John


Offline eloise

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2011, 10:31:20 AM »
I had a great week experimenting with these doughs.  In the back of my mind though was the thought they would age very quickly given the level of prefermented flour they had.  But, really all I noticed is that when you get to days 4 and 5, the dough really resists being reballed...but I prevailed and was rewarded with excellent pizza.  Again, with this dough I wanted a great tasting dough in a shorter amount of time..and the results were great...but now knowing the dough ages well it's like an extra bonus.  The following is a breakfast pizza we had Monday...the dough had been in the fridge 5 days.

John



John,
I noticed that you don't have any tomato sauce on your pizza.  What do you use for these toppings if you don't mind  giving away your secrets!!  They look soooo good.  I have never kept dough for more than two days.  I always thought the dough was considered "dead" by that time.  Why do you need to re-ball them?
PS:  I probably won't throw in the towel. :-[ Thank you for your incouragement.
eloise

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2011, 11:43:08 AM »
John,
I noticed that you don't have any tomato sauce on your pizza.  What do you use for these toppings if you don't mind  giving away your secrets!!  They look soooo good.  I have never kept dough for more than two days.  I always thought the dough was considered "dead" by that time.  Why do you need to re-ball them?
PS:  I probably won't throw in the towel. :-[ Thank you for your incouragement.
eloise
Alot of the time, we experiment with pizzas between 10:30 and 11am, and so one of the favorites around here is a very simple breakfast pizza.  So, the one above is a beaten egg, black pepper, diced ham, onion, green pepper, mushroom, romano and mozzarella cheeses, and a little pesto.....all mixed up and spread on the dough...
When I started this experiment, it began with a recipe that called for reballing...and since then I've found that the dough rises quite a bit over time, and the reballing simply is a good way for me to manage it better...because it blisters and has "huge" bubbles if you don't....and it really gives a better texture in my opinion.

John
John
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 11:45:52 AM by fazzari »

Offline ewalker

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2011, 11:31:31 AM »
John,
Thanks for sharing your recipe and all the amazing pictures. Yesterday I did the most amazing pizza ever. Second day trying my new Large BGE and the result was fantastic!

eWalker

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2011, 10:12:38 PM »
John,
Thanks for sharing your recipe and all the amazing pictures. Yesterday I did the most amazing pizza ever. Second day trying my new Large BGE and the result was fantastic!

eWalker

Glad it worked out well....
John

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2011, 05:24:33 PM »
I've been having fun experimenting with this dough.....62% hydration, using 33% prefermented flour (poolish) which sits about 16 hours.  After seeing Norma's pics of the Reinhart pizza baked in a pan, I couldn't resist the temptation to try.  Since this dough started as a Reinhart, I thought it would be similar to Norma's results.  This 26 ounce dough was baked in a 16 inch deep dish pan on a 550 degree deck.  The pizza was tender, tasty and everything I thought it would be.
John

Offline norma427

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2011, 06:02:37 PM »
John,

Your Reinhart dough baked in a pan looks great!  :) Did you oil your deep dish pan, and if you did, what did you oil it with?  Did you press the Reinhart dough in the pan or did you first stretch the dough?  Your bottom crust looks like it really browned evenly.  Great job!

I sure could eat a slice of your pie!

Norma

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2011, 01:34:53 AM »
Hey Norma
Way back when, I attended Tom lehmann's week long pizza seminar.  It was there that I learned that by using something such as butter flavored crisco on your pan...not only does your dough stick to the pan with n0 shrinkage, but you get the added butter flavor in your dough.  I recommend it highly

John

Offline norma427

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2011, 07:18:14 AM »
Hey Norma
Way back when, I attended Tom lehmann's week long pizza seminar.  It was there that I learned that by using something such as butter flavored crisco on your pan...not only does your dough stick to the pan with n0 shrinkage, but you get the added butter flavor in your dough.  I recommend it highly

John

John,

Thanks so much for the tip about the buttered flavored Crisco to oil the pan.  :) I never tried that before, but can imagine it does impart a buttery taste.

Norma


Offline pythonic

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2012, 04:05:32 PM »
This thread is awesome John.  Your poolish recipe has improved my crust 100 fold!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 04:07:06 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline censored

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2012, 01:12:50 PM »
John,

Your pizzas look awesome! I just put a batch in the fridge 5 minutes ago. I started the preferment at 7 pm last night, going to reball on Tuesday and cook Wednesday. I might have messed up one step, I put all my yeast in the preferment, so hopefully it is still alive today. I'll post pics once, they are done. Thanks.

Jeff

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2012, 05:08:13 PM »
Fantastic!!

John

Offline pythonic

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #62 on: February 29, 2012, 02:39:26 PM »
John,

How much yeast should we use in the preferment?  I used 1/4 and it turned out pretty well.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #63 on: February 29, 2012, 03:00:15 PM »
John,

How much yeast should we use in the preferment?  I used 1/4 and it turned out pretty well.
I used .05 ounce...it's not much!!

John

Offline Lester7009

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #64 on: February 29, 2012, 05:29:23 PM »
 Thanks John you always teach so well. Thank You

Offline censored

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #65 on: February 29, 2012, 10:54:02 PM »
John,

Just had the pies tonight, they were very good! I didn't have any issues having had used the full yeast in the preferment. My dough didn't die at all, in fact, I was surprised how lively it was! even after reshape it still nearly doubled in size in a day. The dough was very easy to work with too. The only thing for me was that it turned out a little whiter than I would have hoped for, but I am starting to think that is something in my technique, because I have had it happened on other recipes. So yeah, thanks for the recipe, might be a keeper for me since my wife gave it a 10/10!

Jeff

Offline pythonic

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2012, 01:37:31 AM »
Jeff,

What kind of flour did you use?
What temp was your oven and did you cook the pizza directly on a stone?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline censored

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2012, 01:49:01 AM »
Hi Pythonic. I use KABF. I have a gas stove that I preheat for an hour. I have one stone on the bottom rack then another stone on the top 2/3 rack. I do 4 minutes on the bottom stone, 2 on the top. The bottom stone seems to run a little cooler in my gas oven.

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2012, 08:53:30 PM »
John,

Just had the pies tonight, they were very good! I didn't have any issues having had used the full yeast in the preferment. My dough didn't die at all, in fact, I was surprised how lively it was! even after reshape it still nearly doubled in size in a day. The dough was very easy to work with too. The only thing for me was that it turned out a little whiter than I would have hoped for, but I am starting to think that is something in my technique, because I have had it happened on other recipes. So yeah, thanks for the recipe, might be a keeper for me since my wife gave it a 10/10!

Jeff

I'm glad the recipe is working for you.  Now, try experimenting by moving your reball time a little closer to bake time.....I've recently been balling 3 to 6 hours prior to baking with excellent results.

John

Offline pythonic

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2012, 04:20:13 PM »
I'm glad the recipe is working for you.  Now, try experimenting by moving your reball time a little closer to bake time.....I've recently been balling 3 to 6 hours prior to baking with excellent results.

John


John,

When u reball are you able to close up the bottom of
the doughball?  Ive tried numerous time but the dough is just too cold. I just pinch it together but it still opens a little bit.   I dont think its altered my results though.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline pythonic

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2012, 01:01:30 PM »
John,

Just to clarify, after your 15hr or so room temp poolish you are the then putting the finalized dough in the fridge for up to 4 days to develop the flavor even further?  Your dough isn't blowing out right?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2012, 02:44:24 PM »
John,

Just to clarify, after your 15hr or so room temp poolish you are the then putting the finalized dough in the fridge for up to 4 days to develop the flavor even further?  Your dough isn't blowing out right?

After the 15 hour poolish, the dough is mixed, then scaled, lightly balled and refrigerated.  The longer it sits, the higher it rises and sometimes gets big bubbles by day 6.  But, the balling process takes care of all of this, and I have no problems.

john

Offline sotaboy

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2012, 02:50:21 PM »
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I did this and something went horribly wrong, which I assume was my fault. i've never worked with a preferment. Making a small trial pizza, and I want to see if I did the math/procedure right.
Formula for 62% hydration calls for 206g flour, 128g water.  So for preferment, I should use 206*.33 = 68g flour, plus 68g water, right?
Then for final dough, I should use 206 less 68g flour, which is 138g, and 128 less 68g water, which is 60g, right?
Not concerned with any other ingredients, just making sure flour/water ratio is correct.
John

Offline fazzari

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2012, 03:15:26 PM »
correct!

Offline bfguilford

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Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2013, 09:06:34 AM »
John: I've been really impressed by your work with preferments and also your thread on the effects of bulk fermentation. I now have my 33 percent preferment into it's 10th hour on the counter. I see in this thread that you talk about lightly balling, refrigerating, and then re-balling. What I'm wondering (and my apologies if it is already in the bulk thread... I didn't see it) is if you have tried to bulk ferment (instead of lightly balling) and then ball 12-24 hours before baking.

Barry
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