Author Topic: same methods....different hydration!!!  (Read 18428 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1003
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2013, 11:21:51 PM »
John: I've been really impressed by your work with preferments and also your thread on the effects of bulk fermentation. I now have my 33 percent preferment into it's 10th hour on the counter. I see in this thread that you talk about lightly balling, refrigerating, and then re-balling. What I'm wondering (and my apologies if it is already in the bulk thread... I didn't see it) is if you have tried to bulk ferment (instead of lightly balling) and then ball 12-24 hours before baking.

Barry
I have tried everything Barry, I have all kinds of experiments in many threads

Here is an example, and I think it talks about your question
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16618.0.html

John


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12474
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2013, 11:31:46 PM »
Mr. fazzari knows pizza...beyond a shadow of a doubt.  8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline bfguilford

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 620
  • Location: Near New Haven, CT
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2013, 07:25:14 AM »
I have tried everything Barry, I have all kinds of experiments in many threads

Here is an example, and I think it talks about your question
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16618.0.html

John

Thanks, John. It sure does answer my question. This time around, I have time to bulk ferment for around 42 hours. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out, and will post results after baking (as I usually do when I start to use a new dough, I'll start a new thread so I can keep track of progress).

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline bfguilford

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 620
  • Location: Near New Haven, CT
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2013, 09:15:41 PM »
First try at this, and all I can say is WOW.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=ed71839c6f399f5f5d736d3340434ee1&topic=23460.0

Thank you, John.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline texmex

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 212
  • Location: out in that West Texas Town.....
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2013, 04:13:12 PM »
Thanks again, John for your experiments.  I am back at it, and recalled a succulent few pizzas made in my home oven using your methods  :chef: 

Just got my starter going again (made 30 pies on Sunday-but was not completely pleased with my rushed results-- although the group was satisfied)

Having come back to this thread I look forward to playing with dough again. ;D
Reesa

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2606
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2013, 07:43:38 PM »
Ahhh this thread is back on the front page again.  John's poolish experiment is a must, give it a try.  One of the best tasting doughs I have ever made.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1003
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2013, 10:46:57 PM »
I like that dough too!!!  But, try this method for mixing it...I think you'll find it much easier to handle!!

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27485.0.html

John

Offline pizza is love

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 57
  • Location: WI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2014, 08:11:05 PM »
Sorry I know this is a old thread but Is there a final dough formulation?  I've read the thread twice and am a little confused. I forget what reply but it said 50% poolish, so is that all the water & yeast and half the flour? I may need a little hand holding on this one ;D

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2606
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2014, 08:17:05 PM »
Sorry I know this is a old thread but Is there a final dough formulation?  I've read the thread twice and am a little confused. I forget what reply but it said 50% poolish, so is that all the water & yeast and half the flour? I may need a little hand holding on this one ;D

1st page at the top.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline pizza is love

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 57
  • Location: WI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2014, 08:35:05 PM »
It says nothing about the 16hr poolish though

Offline dwighttsharpe

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2014, 01:51:44 AM »
It says nothing about the 16hr poolish though

pil, poolish is technically equal weights of water and flour. Typically also, 1/3(33%) of the flour in a recipe is used for the poolish. He pretty much details the poolish version in post# 12(last paragraph):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=15563.msg154203#msg154203

Hope that helps until Fazzari gets back.
Dwight

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2606
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #86 on: February 17, 2014, 02:29:11 PM »
It says nothing about the 16hr poolish though

Reply#12 on 1st page.  Follow poolish measurements correctly.  The equal parts ratio doesn't apply to this thread.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline carl333

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 317
  • Location: Montreal
  • Quest for a great dough! I found it, I found it!!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2015, 05:12:15 PM »
After doing many months of experiments on a pizza I called the "Hybrid Reinhart", I thought I had done all I could to come up with a simple, delicious pizza...at least according to my likes.  So, my thought was to try something totally different.... I started with a 62% hydration dough, using the same percentages of yeast, oil, and honey as the "Hybrid Reinhart".

Flour (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (2%):
Honey (2.%):
Total (168.5%):
Single Ball:
1235.62 g  |  43.58 oz | 2.72 lbs
766.09 g  |  27.02 oz | 1.69 lbs
6.18 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 2.05 tsp | 0.68 tbsp
24.71 g | 0.87 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.43 tsp | 1.48 tbsp
24.71 g | 0.87 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.49 tsp | 1.83 tbsp
24.71 g | 0.87 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3.53 tsp | 1.18 tbsp
2082.02 g | 73.44 oz | 4.59 lbs | TF = N/A
347 g | 12.24 oz | 0.76 lbs

I added the water, yeast, salt, oil and honey to my Kitchen Aid bowl and whisked together.  I then added the flour (KABF) and used the dough hook in my hand to combine the ingredients very roughly.  Then I mixed the dough on stir for 4 minutes......let the dough rest 5 minutes....and then finished the mixing for 3 minutes on stir plus 1/2.  (This is all taken directly from the Reinhart instructions.)  Finished dough temp was about 82 degrees.  Immediately scaled, balled and refrigerated.  I've used the dough from day 2 to day 7, reballing the dough balls the day before usage, and taking doughs out to warm up 1 to 2 hours prior to baking. 

This dough is even better than the Hybrid Reinhart and it really shows in the texture.  While the pizza is crisp enough to stand out on it's own when holding an edge, the crust yields very easily to the tooth, with no chewiness, and is a delight to eat.
The following is a typical result:
John

To finish  with a dough temp of 82, can anyone suggest what the water temp should be just prior to mixing? How important is this?
Carl

Offline jsaras

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1087
  • Location: Northridge, CA
same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2015, 09:05:17 PM »
Lehmann had a simplified rule of thumb, 145-flour temp= water temp
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline mitchjg

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1722
  • Location: Oakland, CA
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2015, 09:12:49 PM »
If you really want to get into it, you should figure out your mixer's friction factor.  There are a few threads here you can search, but here is a good link for you to read:

http://www.pmq.com/Spring-2003/In-Lehmanns-Terms/
Mitch

Offline carl333

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 317
  • Location: Montreal
  • Quest for a great dough! I found it, I found it!!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2015, 09:53:58 PM »
Lehmann had a simplified rule of thumb, 145-flour temp= water temp

lol. I have no idea what you formula means. Can you elaborate a bit more pls.
Carl

Offline carl333

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 317
  • Location: Montreal
  • Quest for a great dough! I found it, I found it!!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2015, 10:02:00 PM »
If you really want to get into it, you should figure out your mixer's friction factor.  There are a few threads here you can search, but here is a good link for you to read:

http://www.pmq.com/Spring-2003/In-Lehmanns-Terms/

Just trying to follow the recipe to the T with a finished dough at 82. I  finished with 72. Guess my water temp was a bit low. Trial and error. I didn't want to start too high thinking I might kill the IDY.
Carl


Offline mitchjg

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1722
  • Location: Oakland, CA
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #92 on: January 16, 2015, 10:14:15 PM »
Sounds like you must have used very cold water............Do you know the water temperature you started with?
Mitch

Offline jsaras

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1087
  • Location: Northridge, CA
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #93 on: January 16, 2015, 11:14:06 PM »
Here are my copied notes:
ACHIEVING 80 DEGREE DOUGH TEMP

For home use, where we are trying to get a finished dough temperature in the 80 degree range, subtract the flour temperature from the number 145 to get the desired water temperature to give you a finished dough within the range of 80 to 90F.
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline carl333

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 317
  • Location: Montreal
  • Quest for a great dough! I found it, I found it!!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2015, 07:51:56 AM »
Sounds like you must have used very cold water............Do you know the water temperature you started with?
I guess I should have measured. I took a couple of cups from the fridge, heated it in the MW for 30 seconds and it felt perhaps room temp or a bit higher. Should I have applied any compensation factors to accommodate for the low temp of 72 as opposed to the recipe at 82?
Carl

Offline carl333

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 317
  • Location: Montreal
  • Quest for a great dough! I found it, I found it!!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #95 on: January 17, 2015, 08:01:03 AM »
Here are my copied notes:
ACHIEVING 80 DEGREE DOUGH TEMP

For home use, where we are trying to get a finished dough temperature in the 80 degree range, subtract the flour temperature from the number 145 to get the desired water temperature to give you a finished dough within the range of 80 to 90F.

Thanks, that's interesting, I would have never considered flour temp as a variable. I was going to say that my dough temp was room temp at 70 but just realized that I used flour that was stored in the basement at perhaps 60. 145-60=85. My water temp must have been low. Is 80 as you mentioned a recommended finished dough temp for most recipes? 
Carl

Offline carl333

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 317
  • Location: Montreal
  • Quest for a great dough! I found it, I found it!!
Re: same methods....different hydration!!!
« Reply #96 on: January 17, 2015, 08:09:44 AM »
If you really want to get into it, you should figure out your mixer's friction factor.  There are a few threads here you can search, but here is a good link for you to read:

http://www.pmq.com/Spring-2003/In-Lehmanns-Terms/
Very informative read and future tool to use. Another variable that can be controlled. tks
Carl