Author Topic: raw organic milk mozzarella  (Read 3141 times)

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Offline pcampbell

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raw organic milk mozzarella
« on: September 15, 2011, 02:03:52 PM »
I am curious if you made raw milk into mozzarella.. is that still considered a "raw" product (I guess?)? doesn't the milk get heated up fairly hot in this process?
Patrick


Online norma427

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 02:20:54 PM »
I am curious if you made raw milk into mozzarella.. is that still considered a "raw" product (I guess?)? doesn't the milk get heated up fairly hot in this process?



Patrick,

I dont know if you are interested in my posts about making fresh mozzarella from raw milk, but these are what I posted.
At Reply 205 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7561.msg84735.html#msg84735
Terry (tdeane) helped me learn to make mozzarella with raw milk.  This is where I posted my results. I also responded to a post about making fresh mozzarella from raw milk at Reply 28 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12414.msg125007.html#msg125007

When making fresh mozzarella from raw milk it is heated to a fairly high temperature.  I think using raw milk is safe.

Maybe more members will chime in with their experiences of making fresh mozzarella from raw milk.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 02:58:37 PM »
Hi Norma;
Just a cautionary warning.
Working with raw milk is like working with raw, shell eggs (like putting an egg wash on calzones). The milk or egg will be heated to a point where it is safe, BUT, cross contamination now becomes the issue, think about how aprons, towels, work surfaces might become contaminated prior to the heating process. Even your hands can/will contribute to cross contamination. Be smart, be careful, be safe.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Online norma427

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 05:39:55 PM »
Hi Norma;
Just a cautionary warning.
Working with raw milk is like working with raw, shell eggs (like putting an egg wash on calzones). The milk or egg will be heated to a point where it is safe, BUT, cross contamination now becomes the issue, think about how aprons, towels, work surfaces might become contaminated prior to the heating process. Even your hands can/will contribute to cross contamination. Be smart, be careful, be safe.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

Thanks for your cautionary warning.  :) I can understand working with raw products everyone needs to be careful and safe.  I try to be safe the best I can when using any raw products, especially eggs, milk, chicken. and other dangerous food products.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline tikidoc

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 01:10:01 PM »
"Raw" or fresh milk is no more dangerous than pasteurized IF it comes from healthy animals and is handled correctly, but the temperature used to make homemade mozzarella is less than the temperature used to pasteurize milk. 

I would never drink unpasteurized milk (or consume products made from it without pasteurizing) that comes from a typical factory farm.  I have goats and cows of my own, that are healthy and clean, and live on pasture and receive only small amounts of grain (enough to get them to stand still when I milk them).  Their udders are clean, as are my hands when I milk, and the equipment I use to store and filter the milk.  The milk is cooled right after milking.  I feel perfectly safe drinking this milk (and eating our homemade mozzarella).

Check out the Weston Price Foundation for more information on fresh milk. 

Offline Botch

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 09:16:54 PM »
...but the temperature used to make homemade mozzarella is less than the temperature used to pasteurize milk. 
IIRC, pasteurization also depends on how long the milk is at a particular temperature, so direct comparison of factory milk to a pot heated on the stove for 45 minutes may not be possible.  Hopefully someone from the industry can chime in...
I cook with wine.  Sometimes I even add it to the food.  - W. C. Fields

Offline tikidoc

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2011, 06:59:43 AM »
From the wiki article on pasteurization:  "Pasteurization typically uses temperatures below boiling since at very high temperatures casein micelles will irreversibly aggregate, or "curdle." There are two main types of pasteurization used today: High Temperature/Short Time (HTST) and "Extended Shelf Life (ESL)" treatment. Ultra-high temperature (UHT or ultra-heat treated) is also used for milk treatment. In the HTST process, milk is forced between metal plates or through pipes heated on the outside by hot water, and is heated to 71.7 C (161 F) for 1520 seconds. UHT processing holds the milk at a temperature of 135 C (275 F) for a minimum of one second. ESL milk has a microbial-filtration step and lower temperatures than UHT milk.[8] Milk simply labeled "pasteurized" is usually treated with the HTST method, whereas milk labeled "ultra-pasteurized" or simply "UHT" has been treated with the UHT method. Since 2007, however, it is no longer a legal requirement in European countries (such as Germany) to declare ESL milk as ultra-heated, consequently, it is now often labeled as "fresh milk" and just advertised as having an "extended shelf life", making it increasingly difficult to distinguish ESL milk from traditionally pasteurized fresh milk. A less conventional but US FDA-legal alternative (typically for home pasteurization) is to heat milk at 145 F (63 C) for 30 minutes.[9]"

So 161F for 15-20 second is the usual method for milk labeled "pasteurized" (not ultra-Pasteurized).

When I make mozzarella, I typically use this recipe: http://www.cheesemaking.com/howtomakemozzarellacheese.html.  It takes about 30 minutes and produces a nice fresh mozzarella.  I have also made more time-consuming cultured mozzarella (using bacterial cultures rather than addition of acid to acidify the milk) but have found that the slightly improved flavor is not worth the much greater time involved.  My 30 minute goat mozzarella is much better than anything I can get in the store.

The maximum temperature is about 135F, so would not be the same as pasteurization.  There are other recipes that do involve higher temperatures.

Offline pcampbell

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 06:47:16 PM »
we are able to get it from an organic farm here and the cows are on the pasture, however i am not sure how sanitary the whole place is.  i know most of their milk goes to big name organic label to be pasteurized.  It is of some concern but currently have no other choice for raw milk.  I do believe we must be stripping some helpful bacteria out of this milk by pasteurizing, and there is additional concern about homogenization regarding how our body processes the fat globules.   

i'd like to have my own goats at some point i think.
Patrick

Offline tikidoc

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2011, 10:52:57 AM »
There are many beneficial things that are reduced or eliminated in milk that has been pasteurized.  And there are many concerns about homogenization, including possibly increasing risks of allergic reactions, heart disease and even cancer (maybe).  A good place for information is http://www.realmilk.com/.  Granted, they have an agenda but they post lots of references with good data.  It amazes me how unpasteurized milk has been so demonized in our culture but the factory farm milk lobby has lots of money and power, and it is in their best interests to keep small producers of raw milk from being successful.  There is a very interesting book called "The Untold Story of Milk" which looks at the history of the milk industry in our country and how we ended up where we are.  It's a good read.

As far as goats go, I think La Manchas are ideal family milk goats.  They are good producers and they have great personalities.  They are easy going and very affectionate.  One of mine even tries to get in my lap if I sit down in her pasture.  She's like a big dog.  We also have Nigerian Dwarf goats, and they are sweet little things but a bit more time consuming to milk than the bigger breeds.  They do have milk that is higher in fat and solids than most breeds, so great for cheesemaking.  If you are seriously thinking about getting goats, feel free to PM me if you need any help or advice.

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2011, 06:01:22 PM »
It amazes me how unpasteurized milk has been so demonized in our culture but the factory farm milk lobby has lots of money and power, and it is in their best interests to keep small producers of raw milk from being successful. 

Amen.

Pasteurization and homogenization basically kills milk.

The vast majority of milk sold in this country is repulsive in every conceivable fashion. Juiced up, hooked up cows being milked virtually 24 hours a day, dropping teet scabs into the milk flow and all sorts of other nasty stuff is bullocks and nothing more. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell


Offline tikidoc

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2011, 08:52:36 PM »
That's one of the big reasons they homogenize the milk - all that pus that settles on the bottom (from unhealthy cows) gets broken into little bits and suspended in solution. 

If you haven't tasted fresh milk, you haven't really tasted milk.  It is totally different stuff. 

Again, I highly recommend reading the book "The Untold Story of Milk".  It is an interesting story about how money and industry dictate what we eat.  The history of milk in the US is really worth learning about.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2011, 10:40:01 AM »
Just a cautionary note, there is a major epidemic with Listeria as I write this, a number of people have died since August. Listeria is fairly common in raw milk and can also be found in cheese. When consuming raw milk, and especially if you plan on ever selling/sharing any raw milk or product made from it, be sure to have it micro tested, and tested often. If you want to see the latest articles, please send me a request.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline tikidoc

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2011, 11:34:10 AM »
Yes there has been an outbreak of Listeria but it was linked to cantaloupes, not milk, raw or otherwise.  And Listeria outbreaks have also occurred with pasteurized milk as their source.  Listeria is killed by pasteurization but the milk can get contaminated after the processing.

Again, if you are going to consume raw milk, KNOW YOUR SOURCE.  My source happens to be my own animals, so I am very comfortable consuming it, because I know the animals, and their individual health histories, and I am in control of the practices used in collecting it. 

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2011, 10:38:21 AM »
Here is a sample of what comes across my desk all too regularly.
<www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2011/09/20/granger-dairy-recalls-raw-milk-over-e-coli-concerns>
Caution and food safety awareness are key issues with raw milk and products made from it. I'm not saying don't do it, but be educated, and be careful.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline tikidoc

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2011, 03:55:45 PM »
Here is a sample of what comes across my desk all too regularly.
<www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2011/09/20/granger-dairy-recalls-raw-milk-over-e-coli-concerns>
Caution and food safety awareness are key issues with raw milk and products made from it. I'm not saying don't do it, but be educated, and be careful.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Absolutely agree with the above. Educate yourself about risks and benefits, and about your source for any raw milk products. 

But keep in mind that pasteurization kills good stuff as well as bad stuff and contamination can still take place after pasteurization is complete. Raw milk has antibacterial qualities, so if you inoculate raw and pasteurized milks with equal amounts of pathogenic bacteria, you will get much more growth in the pasteurized milk.  It is a great culture medium.  Also, homogenization is not just simply suspending the cream in solution, it alters the chemical composition of the milk, and it MAY alter the fats in ways that are harmful to the consumer.  A WELL-MANAGED dairy that produces raw milk from healthy, grass fed cows is (my opinion) going to have a healthier product than a factory dairy farm producing pasteurized, homogenized milk.  There is also very little doubt that factory farming in general (both dairy and beef cattle, as well as poultry) are more harmful to the environment and less humane for the animals than pasture based farming.


Offline pcampbell

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2011, 02:57:53 PM »
we have been playing with making some butter... Skimming the cream off the raw whole milk .  I am wondering if by removing the cream we are removing some health benefits of the raw milk.

We are still drinking what is left of the milk... which I imagine is essentially like whole milk, but still not pasturized or homogenized.    I'm just wondering if it's best to leave the milk in it's most natural state.
Patrick

Offline kiwipete

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Re: raw organic milk mozzarella
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 04:31:06 PM »
Absolutely agree with the above. Educate yourself about risks and benefits, and about your source for any raw milk products. 

But keep in mind that pasteurization kills good stuff as well as bad stuff and contamination can still take place after pasteurization is complete. Raw milk has antibacterial qualities, so if you inoculate raw and pasteurized milks with equal amounts of pathogenic bacteria, you will get much more growth in the pasteurized milk.  It is a great culture medium.  Also, homogenization is not just simply suspending the cream in solution, it alters the chemical composition of the milk, and it MAY alter the fats in ways that are harmful to the consumer.  A WELL-MANAGED dairy that produces raw milk from healthy, grass fed cows is (my opinion) going to have a healthier product than a factory dairy farm producing pasteurized, homogenized milk.  There is also very little doubt that factory farming in general (both dairy and beef cattle, as well as poultry) are more harmful to the environment and less humane for the animals than pasture based farming.

Amen... couldn't have said it better myself.  :)



 

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