Author Topic: The Inevitable Happens  (Read 5187 times)

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Offline Mo

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2010, 08:00:21 PM »


Yup, that is the first thing that popped into my head too, The H-D should have been all over that during there inspections! Now, if I was an inspector, I would have looked at the menu, and asked how they did Pasta if I did not see anything to cook it with at the location. But from other stuff I have seen take place in FL, it really doesn't surprise me either.
What has me wondering is why they did not get a single-burner stockpot stove or even a wal-mart special turkey fryer burner to use on-site. Anything other than cooking food for a restaurant at your home, then transporting it to the restaurant. Maybe you should talk to the county health inspector and ask to see their inspection notes on this place, Maybe this place got a bad reputation due to a food-borne illness outbreak (very possible) and you would need to work even harder to get past that with your customer base.
That info may be available online through the county website. You need to know, and you can use all this info for a bargaining chip too.

Old equipment;
Don't discount all equipment just because of it's age, I would be more concerned about refrigeration than the ovens or a mixer, Although I have never seen or heard of a "Hoover" mixer until now. So I have nothing to say either way about that.
I'll tell you something though, the Mixers that Hobart produced in the 1930's are 10X tougher and will outlast anything they currently produce! The spot I would like to get into has 2 Hobart exposed-motor 60Qt mixers included in the lease. Hobart quit producing that style because they were not generating service calls, they would only get to see a customer once, and never hear from them for service after the sale because those things were so tough.
if you oven or mixer goes down, you lose sales, if your coolers go down, you lose sales and your inventory!
Old ovens & stoves;
I have worked with commercial stoves and ovens that were at least 80 years old, and again they outperformed anything built in the last 40 years. The pure heft of the steel & iron of older units made them far superior to what is out there now.

Do some research, take another look, and see where you are then.


There's no doubting starting materials used to be much more durable. However, components such as wiring and certain moving parts just wear down over time, regardless of their starting materials and maintenance. I don't know how many parts are available for foodservice machines that are 50 years old.

You're correct as well about the refrigeration units. These are just notorious for routine maintenance/repair/replacement.





Offline pcampbell

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2010, 07:03:22 PM »
Thanks, GR. Looking at the place in an hour and a half.

I'm near Miami.

ok just checking.  I am in vero beach from time to time and  would love to stop by if this materializes.
Patrick

Offline dms

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2010, 07:38:56 PM »
Old equipment;
Don't discount all equipment just because of it's age, I would be more concerned about refrigeration than the ovens or a mixer, Although I have never seen or heard of a "Hoover" mixer until now. So I have nothing to say either way about that.

There was company called Hoover that made concrete mixers.  Wonder if it's the same folk.

Quote
have worked with commercial stoves and ovens that were at least 80 years old, and again they outperformed anything built in the last 40 years. The pure heft of the steel & iron of older units made them far superior to what is out there now.

Survivorship bias.  Old  things still in use are the ones that were good, that were taken care of, and were repaired.  You don't see the junk, because it got thrown away.  There's good commercial equipment being made today, which is likely to be around in 50 years.  There's a lot of crap, too: there's a market for equipment that's only going to last a few years, because it reduces startup costs.  And given the restaurant business life cycle, it might even make sense.  (if you're broke in three years, it didn't make sense to buy top-end equipment.  If you're not, you can afford to buy better stuff.) 

It doesn't sound like this place is worth anything, except the equipment's value, which isn't much.   

Offline hotsawce

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 08:40:34 PM »
No offense, puzzolento, but you've preached on this forum non stop, now you're jumping into opening a place and we've never even seen one of the pies you've made.

  As much as I dislike your internet personality, I'm concerned for your financial well being.

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 08:58:27 PM »
I posted photos of a Sicilian I made. This is the second time I've pointed it out. I also put up a photo of a tool I made to remove Sicilian pizzas from the pan. It's very simple; you just cut a strip out of the middle of an aluminum pizza pan, put two bends in it, and saw one end off.

I can't say your expression of concern gleams with sincerity, but in case you mean it, don't worry. I'll make sure I don't end up in a bread line.

I believe I have some recent photos of pies on the prep table at my church. I suppose I can photograph pies on the steam table, waiting to be served.

I'm sure I can dig up an old photo of a thin crust pie, but it's not very exciting. Cheese pizza is my thing, so it's just a round disk with no toppings. I have one where the rim got folded up; probably made it too big for the pan. I can put up a new thin crust photo the next time I make one, but lately all I want is Sicilian. The old photo shows a pizza with a lot of flour on the crust. That was how I liked doing it then, but I don't do it that way now.

I can also post a photo of something else I cooked, to show there is more to life than pizza.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 09:00:18 PM by Puzzolento »

Offline GotRocks

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2010, 09:53:02 PM »
Hey, Now your talking my language with that spit-roasted hog!!!

It looks very nice, and I am being very sincere when I say that, Roasting pigs is a large percentage of my summer catering, and I hope to be able to work whole hog into a weekly/weekend special at the restaurant too.
A skinny cook is not to be trusted!

Offline hotsawce

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2010, 09:57:50 PM »
I'm going to be honest with you.

There is nothing about that pizza that stands out and would implore me to eat at your restaurant opposed to a competitor's. It may taste great, I don't know, but even great restaurants go under. It's incredibly difficult, so I really hope you're doing your due diligence.

Good luck to you, but be aware that there are an awful lot of unforseen pitholes in running a place.

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2010, 10:02:32 AM »
This may sound crazy, but my strategy does not rely all that much on how the pizza LOOKS like it tastes.

The Sicilian is the best pizza I've ever eaten. The thin pizza is better than anything around here, but not as good as the Sicilian. Still needs work.

The pig was excellent. That one is stuffed with moros. My only complaint about rotisserie pigs is that the skin doesn't crisp up all that well. It's fun to watch them rotate, however.

I really like pigs for holiday meals. They taste a whole lot better than turkeys, and they make a great impression on a crowd.

Offline GotRocks

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2010, 12:26:47 AM »
This may sound crazy, but my strategy does not rely all that much on how the pizza LOOKS like it tastes.

The Sicilian is the best pizza I've ever eaten. The thin pizza is better than anything around here, but not as good as the Sicilian. Still needs work.

The pig was excellent. That one is stuffed with moros. My only complaint about rotisserie pigs is that the skin doesn't crisp up all that well. It's fun to watch them rotate, however.

I really like pigs for holiday meals. They taste a whole lot better than turkeys, and they make a great impression on a crowd.

Presentation and visual appeal are a large part of the battle that cannot be overlooked! Taste is also very subjective too but not as important as visual appeal..
What some people find to be a great pizza, someone else might consider that same pizza absolutely horrible. 
Lets look at Pizzeria Uno for a minute, they are huge in Chicago. but I though it was the worst pizza that ever passed my lips. After waiting outside for 3 hours, drinking lots of beer and getting hungry enough to eat the butthole out of a skunk, I had 1 bite of what Uno's put in front of me and had them wrap the rest. I tossed the rest in the first garbage can I found and went to McDonald's a block away to get some food in me. Then we went to Geno's East later because I was promised I would like their pizza if I did not like what Uno had. at least I found it mediocre, not horrible this time.

Then you get into the big-3 with their price wars to drag you down. Most DELCO pizza eaters are looking at price over quality or flavor, how would you expect some drunk with $15.00 in his pocket wanting as much food as he can get instead of a truly great pizza? What would you offer that could go against any of the big-3 to make him spend his money with you instead of them?
great food alone does not make a successful place, especially in the uber competitive pizza world.
A skinny cook is not to be trusted!

Offline scott123

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2010, 12:57:57 AM »
What some people find to be a great pizza, someone else might consider that same pizza absolutely horrible.

I believe that, although we're all heavily influenced by genetics, upbringing and environment, there is a universal aesthetic. We're all kind of hardwired to enjoy similar things.  I've seen lots of women that I thought were beautiful, only to have friends find them only so so (and vice versa), but, occasionally, you run across such a rare beauty that the favorable opinion is almost unanimous.  I think pizza works the same way.  If you can create something truly spectacular, you might find a few people that think it's only good (and maybe 1 out of 50 that thinks it garbage), but most people, in any part of the world, will say 'wow, that's great.'


Offline Puzzolento

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2010, 10:46:17 AM »
Quote
I believe that, although we're all heavily influenced by genetics, upbringing and environment, there is a universal aesthetic. We're all kind of hardwired to enjoy similar things.

This is absolutely true, but 75 years of kooks running our educational system have brainwashed us into denying that any behaviors or attitudes are hard-wired.

Nonetheless, people will tend to be biased toward the pizza they were raised on.

As for presentation, I have no respect for it. If food looks okay and tastes great, people will come back over and over. You don't have to turn every dish into a prizewinning centerpiece. I think the presentation fad is largely a creation of the deplorable foodie movement.

The pizza at my favorite (highly successful) pizzerias looks pretty similar to the garbage they serve at Domino's and Papa John's. Round disks with sauce and cheese.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 10:48:51 AM by Puzzolento »

Offline GotRocks

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2010, 11:42:14 AM »
Deplorable foodie movement?

I see that movement as a renaissance! it is helping people realize there is better options out there than the frozen food industry which pushed prepared crap that almost everyone has been eating since the 60's with the invention of TV-Dinners.

When I was in grade school, everything was made from scratch, bread was baked on-site, nothing came out of a frozen case with "a just heat and it is ready to eat" label on it, People 40 years old and younger were brought up on over-processed prepared meals by many families, and they know nothing better. the foodie movement is making many people realize how bad they had it and they are now seeking out better alternatives.

I grew up with items cooked in the home, did I consider my mother a foodie? No! she was just a very talented cook. When I was 18 and out of the house, I continued to cook as she did, and cooking ended up as my chosen career. Most guys around my age think opening a can of spaghettios and adding spam to them is a home-cooked meal. the foodie movement is making the stores provide better fresh options again where as little as ten years ago, those items would have never sold, so they would not carry them.
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Offline Puzzolento

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2010, 12:21:33 PM »
Don't get me wrong. It's great that people care about food, but the problem with any fad is that it will lead to groupthink, homogeneity, blind acceptance of mythology, the exaltation of mediocrities, and the ostracism of creative people who won't join the herd. And the snobbery and condescension are paralyzing. Cooking is art, so rigidity and conformity tend to destroy it. They discourage experimentation and diversity, which are at the heart of progress.

I've seen TV food heroes do really dumb things while the audiences oohed and ahhed like they were witnessing miracles, and I've eaten in TV-chef restaurants that were literally inferior to Pizza Hut. I've used TV-chef recipes that were not only bad, but absurd. The fad helped these things happen. Once fame cements your reputation, you can spread plumber's putty on a cracker and tell people it's divine, and 90% of them will agree with you and go for the throat of anyone who complains.

I remember a hilarious TV show that did Candid Camera-style pranks. They made up a fake soft drink, using the most disgusting ingredients they could think of. They made it so revolting, it amazed them that people could drink it. Then they gave out samples in a store and told people they were filming a commercial. Over and over, people grinned and said how much they loved it, just so they could be on TV.

That's the same thing that happens when Emeril cooks up a bad recipe and passes it out to the crowd.

I never watch food TV. It can't be trusted. Picking through it to see what works wastes my time. Meanwhile, the Internet, good books, trusted friends, and hands-on experience are invaluable.

I cooked before the food fad, and I will be cooking after it's over. It hasn't done a thing for me, apart from screwing up a few meals.

Offline GotRocks

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2010, 07:24:42 PM »
I don't see the foodie movement as a fad, I see it as more of an awakening to what they have been missing in their lives for 30+ years.

I saw the "heat & eat", over processed foods as a fad, but one that has lasted for a long while, but now what we got happening is the frozen food industry trying to produce better more natural products. So I think this has been a benefit for the consumer and the chef's alike.
Have you seen the movie Ratatouille? if not, watch it. It pretty much sums up the renaissance we are seeing and living right now.

Lets take a look at frozen pizzas for a few seconds, if fresher ingredients and all the other "Foodie" ideas were to be ignored, we would not have rising-crust frozen pizza's, different crust options, fresher vegetables, etc etc etc. they would all still be like a a tombstone original pizza, some crap spread on cardboard.
look what this "Fad" has forced Domino's to do, they did a full redesign of their product to get a better share of the market, if it wasn't for this foodie movement, they would not have been forced to adapt to stay alive in the industry.

The frozen/processed food conglomerates are trying to get in on this movement the best they can right now because they have realized that they will become extinct if they do not.

When I talk of "Presentation is a large part of the battle" I am not speaking of having Garde manger chef making tomato-skin roses and decorating the pie, it just needs to look visually appealing. I am not saying your pies are not appealing, it is just that we eat with our eyes first and flavor is secondary. then we also get into texture. If you made the most flavorful thing in the world, but it had the texture of sand, and looked like a pile of dog-doo, I doubt people would be able get past the looks to even try it.
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Offline Mo

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2010, 10:14:59 AM »
I am not speaking of having Garde manger chef making tomato-skin roses and decorating the pie, it just needs to look visually appealing.

I was thinking of trying to toss a pie in the shape of a boat with toppings carved into the shapes of the crew and melted mozzarella as rigging and sails...

that would look awesome.

Offline GotRocks

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2010, 11:21:54 AM »
I was thinking of trying to toss a pie in the shape of a boat with toppings carved into the shapes of the crew and melted mozzarella as rigging and sails...

that would look awesome.

I would pay to see that!! Thanks Mo, I needed the laugh.
A skinny cook is not to be trusted!

Offline gabaghool

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Re: The Inevitable Happens
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2011, 07:08:03 PM »
That makes the asking price zero, since this place closed two weeks ago and has no clientele. I think the only value left is the equipment.

The total figure for rent, water, gas, power, Internet, phones, and trash is about $1700 at its peak (highest gas consumption). I have not checked this via receipts and checks yet.

Thanks for the info. Very good to know.

Once a place closes THEY ARE ONLY SELLING USED EQUIPMENT.  THERE IS NO GOOD WILL....THEY CLOSED!!!  Maybe....MAYBE, the lease is one SOO great that it may be worth something.  That is why closing your doors is so costly.  A place with its door opened, grossing 500K may get around 150K (that is simlified, but 30% of gross is a good starting point, you subtract or add from there.  Once the same place closes......its worth aroung 5-10% if his inventory, meaning mostly his equipment. 

I've talked to people selling their CLOSED establishments.  They say to me, "Well I spent a half million on my place...so i want 200G, thats a deal!!!  Huh, no it aint.  Youre closed.  You have NO BUSINESS TO SELL.  If this guy called a used equipement company to come and take all his equipment he would get appx 5-10K....seriously.  So THAT where you start working.  You like the place, there are anyother takers....you can get it for NO KEY MONEY (cause he's stills stuck paying rent, or you can sweeten the deal becasue he would get so little from a used equipment place that 30K is the best he can do.  He gets 3 times what he would get and you get a nice bargain.

Closed places in situations where its fairly obvious it was mismanagment are the best deals.  Believe me...almost NOONE sells a place that is making money.  My best deal...200 seats, in business 15,000 bucks and a rent reduction of 2/3rds.  A hell of a deal, a rare deal, but in bad times, THEY ARE OUT THERE.