Author Topic: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe  (Read 20465 times)

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Offline johnamus

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Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« on: September 25, 2011, 10:39:09 PM »
Oftentimes a person's taste in pizza is influenced by the location in which they were raised.  Novel styles such as the Provel-laden St Louis Style are preferred by the natives who grow up with an understanding that their particular local style is the definition of "pizza".  A definition that varies depending on who you talk to.  Distinct regional styles such as these sometimes require an acquired taste, and are therefore little-known and under-appreciated by people outside of the native area.  On the opposite side of the spectrum are the classic styles such as New York or Chicago thin that represent spot-on executions of pizza, perfect texture, saltiness, acidity, and sweetness.  Knowledge of these styles permeates the general USA population, and rightly so; these styles do not require any explanation to enjoy, beginners and locals alike.

With that said, I believe there is a style that has undeservedly avoided the pizza mainstream. I grew up in the middle of the country and only lucked into experiencing this particular style after marrying someone from the Ohio Valley. The Ohio Valley Style, if you live in the northern horn of WV and the surrounding areas of eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania then you know exactly what I am talking about.  And if you don't then I don't blame you, a quick search of the forums returns only one mention of the style here:http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7815.0.html

A broader search across the internet returns only a few more hits. I was lucky enough to find a mention of the Ohio Valley style at another forum five years ago: http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/fb.ashx?m=473604.  And even luckier to see a user "wjcostello" was offering to email the original DiCarlo's recipe to anyone who wanted it.  I immediately took him up on his kind offer and he sent me a detailed recipe. The recipe was clearly authentic, with commercial level measurements of flour, water, and yeast, and a back story of his time as a high school student in the fifties learning the recipe from a DiCarlo's employee.  I tried to contact wjcostello to thank him for the recipe and ask for permission to republish it, but his email address is no longer functional, and since I might be one of only a handful to possess this recipe I'll post wjcostello's entire email at the end of my post in order to preserve it for posterity.

The Ohio Valley style is defined by a thick, but very light and crispy crust, a basic tomato sauce with hints of green pepper, a generous layer of slightly uncooked mozzarella, topped by a sparse layer of unbaked pepperoni.  The dough is parbaked then withdrawn from the oven to receive a coating of sauce, then placed back in the oven until fully cooked.  The pizza is then taken out of the oven, dressed with finely shredded mozzarella and pepperoni, cut into rectangles, and placed into a white department-store style box for purchase.  The heat of the dough and the steam from the cooked sauce fills the box and melts the cheese closest to the bottom and leaves the top layer of cheese warm yet stringy.  It is a unique style, but perhaps the crust can be compared to a very light focacia.  The finished product comes close to a Sicilian style, but it stands out as a unique style that deserves more mention than is given on this site.  Here is wjcostello's email, I hope the intelligent and enthusiastic members of this site can enjoy it, improve on it, maybe even convert it to baker's percents.  And if you have the chance to travel to the Ohio Valley, be sure to try this unique and delicious style.  I recommend Ray's Pizza in Wintersville, OH.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Bill Costello` <dixiewillie@costelloclan.com> wrote:
Remember this is the ORIGINAL pizza recipe…When I was growing up there was only one DiCarlos Pizza anywhere….and it was on Main Street around 14th in Wheeling WV….I spent about a week full of evenings with Tom (who had always made pizza for me in the 50’s when I was in High School).  The one on 14th & Main is gone now but if you interested in getting  the most original well  the nearest to the original,  go to the DiCarlos Pizza  in Wheeling across from the McClure Hotel (around 12th and Market)
 
This sauce recipe is exactly as it is stated.  It is really a simple Italian recipe…I recommend that you don’t try to jazz it up with spices, different tomatoes etc…ingredient brands did vary but Crushed Tomatoes means Crushed Tomatoes…not sliced or any other kind….so be very literal with the recipe. This recipe was for a full pot of sauce so you might have downsize the recipe proportionally…you can make a whole batch, divide it up and vacuum freeze it..
 
The sauce
1 Cup of Wesson Oil
2 each – whole cloves of garlic, smashed
1 med to large onion sliced thin
2 tablespoons of Oregano
5 large institutional cans of Crushed Tomatoes
2 cups of thin green pepper slices (these were the canned type but you could use fresh)
 
Put this in a pot and slow cook for around 4 hours…..this is a basic recipe and that is what makes it good and healthy…don’t add anything .
 
The Crust
 
½ lb of yeast
3 gallons of water
14 ½ cups of high gluten flour…make it into a slurry then add as much flour as you need to make it like bread dough.   High gluten dough is bread dough
1/3 cup of salt
 
Mix it up as you would make bread dough…cover and let set until it rises at least twice the size.. Then divide in up into balls the size of the pizza you are making and let rise again….The original is made in a 16 x 28” pan…but I that last time I got it (Aug 2005) they were using a 16 x 16 pan (you get more corner pieces) and it was easier to handle and it was just as good..
 
Put a little Wesson oil lightly on the pan (makes the bottom crispy that we love)  then …..Press and stretch the dough (this is the reason for the high gluten flour), ….put on some sauce and spread it around to fill all the voids…, then put on a little, I mean a little cheese...not too much you can always add more later if you want to …pop it into the oven high   - 550 deg F…watch it and break the bubbles (if any) with a fork….when it is just done (check the crust) , pull it out, cut it, put on the pepperoni  and then sprinkle  mozzarella cheese (grated)(if you want a creamer cheese add about 20% provolone cheese)      …the heat will melt the cheese and soften the pepperoni…(It is not recommended… to add much cheese when you first put it into the oven….the cheese will be done and the pizza won’t)..
 
 
THE PANS
 
If you want to locate those 16 x 16 pans, they can be procured from
The Twin Team
Twin Supply Inc
866-630-4747
www.twinsupply.com
 
Ask for 16 x 16 x1 Tapered design BLACK steel, reinforced heavy gauge steel wire.
$32.00 per pan, plus shipping and handling
This item is not on their web site, please call and order on the phone


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2011, 10:56:45 PM »
Welcome Jonamus and thank you for posting up the original recipe. No doubt, members who are familiar with this style, will really appreciate having this. 

Any chance you can post up some pictures of your Ohio Valley Style pizzas?

Chau

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2011, 01:53:26 PM »
I haven't been able to replicate the pizza, but here are some pictures of an authentic DiCarlo's pizza.  Most of the Mom-and-Pop's in the area serve the Ohio Valley style, but DiCarlo's is the biggest operation of all of them.

These photos are courtesy of this blog: http://jschumacher.typepad.com/joe/2009/12/original-dicarlos-pizza.html

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2011, 01:58:12 PM »
Thanks for the photos.  I did a google search last night for Ohio Valley Pizza and thought that 2nd photo was the only one matching your description of the pie.  I'll have to give it a try sometime.

Chau

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2011, 03:42:49 PM »
Those blog photos are an accurate representation of the style, but the photos aren't able to show the crispiness and lightness of the crust.  There is a satisfying audible crunch with every bite, and the crispiness of the outside of the dough is contrasted by the slight fluffiness of the interior.  It's difficult to describe without experiencing.

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 11:13:12 AM »
After attempting to convert the recipe into baker's percents, it is clear that the "slurry" is very wet indeed.  The translation yields approximately 4 lbs of flour to 25 lbs of water! Along with the salt level of .2 lbs and yeast of .5 lb, the extra flour required to "make it like bread dough" would be substantial.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes standardization of the ingredients impossible. 

The magic of the recipe must be in the process rather than the measurements.  When I receive a pan as described in the recipe I'll attempt the style and see what it produces.  This will require trial and error to nail down.   
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 11:22:48 AM by johnamus »

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 11:30:47 AM »
If a standard 50lb bag of flour is used I come up with this:

50 pounds (181 cups) -   100.0%   High Gluten flour
25 pounds (3 gallons) - 36.0%   Water
.212 pounds (1/3 cup) - 1.2%   Salt
.5 pound (1.8 cup) - 1%   Active dry yeast
-                              0%   oil
-                              0%   Sugar
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 04:34:30 PM by johnamus »

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 04:36:34 PM »
For a 12"x12" pan, thickness factor of .104, and residue of 2%, I come up with this:


Flour (100%):
Water (36%):
ADY (1%):
Salt (1.2%):
Total (138.2%):
313.36 g  |  11.05 oz | 0.69 lbs
112.81 g  |  3.98 oz | 0.25 lbs
3.13 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.83 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
3.76 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
433.06 g | 15.28 oz | 0.95 lbs | TF = 0.10608

I'll post pictures once I give it a try

Offline lmayles

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 11:50:36 AM »
hi john.  i am thrilled and grateful you shared the recipe for dicarlos.  we live three hours from the closest one!  how unfair is that?  the elm grove one in wheeling is my fave.  the one is st. clairsville is good too.  anyway, i planned to give the recipe and the pizza pan from twin supply to my husband, who is from wheeling, for Christmas.  however, i called twin supply and the very nice man with whom i spoke said the pans can only be purchased in lots of six.  short of starting my own knock-off dicarlos, i only need one pan  :)  can you give me any advice on locating just one - even a used one would be great - maybe better.  if you would be so kind, my e-mail is lisa.mayles@gmail.com.  i would really appreciate any suggestions you might have.  in any event, thank you again for sharing your recipe.  you made my day.   lisa

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2011, 01:00:05 PM »
Lisa,

I'm glad that you and your husband share an interest in recreating the Ohio Valley style!  I found a similar pan at Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Daddios-Sicilian-SlickDad-Coating/dp/B0036C6OGS/?tag=pizzamaking-20

With that said, I haven't attempted the recipe I received and posted, but the recipe appears to have a very low hydration which would result in a crackery crust that probably wouldn't resemble the great pizza we are accustomed to receiving from Dicarlo's.  It's a bit disappointing to me that Bill Costello's email address does not work, because he would be better able to point us to a good starting point recipe.  But I wouldn't let that stop you from giving your husband the pan as long as he is willing to tinker with a recipe a bit.  A good starting point is "Reinhart's Neo-Neapolitan Recipe" here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8143.0.html.  As you can see here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16380.0.html, Norma made this recipe in a pan with great results, and I think if your husband used the recipe, but inserted an Ohio-Valley sauced-par bake into the process, then he would achieve good pizza.  Then from that point it would just be a matter of making minor tweaks to the recipe in order to get something closer to the Ohio-Valley style, and that is an area in which this forum would be glad to assist.

Let me know if you are interested and I can use the Dough Calculator tool to develop a good recipe for your pan size.

Edited to add: I asked my wife to buy me the 12x18 pan for Christmas.  I live in Missouri, so the Ohio-Valley style is something I get only 2-3 times a year.  Hopefully with this pan I'll be able to increase this number! 


Offline Biancos

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2011, 06:10:46 PM »
Our recipe is very similar to DiCarlos. We don't use near that much water as his calls for. There is a mistake there somewhere.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 06:19:38 PM by Biancos »

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2011, 07:51:33 PM »
Bianco's,

The picture you posted looks great, and very much like the Ohio Valley style! Are you an Ohio transplant?  Would you mind sharing your recipe? ;D

-John

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, 08:08:46 PM »
Hey johnamus, i quite enjoyed your first post here and the rest of the posts in this thread.  I'm jsut curious - aside from the provel, can you tell me how St. Louis pizza differs from chicago-style (or more appropriately, midwestern-style) thin crust?  I always thought st. louis was really just a chicago-thin with provel cheese.   ???

thakns! :chef:
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 08:11:48 PM by CDNpielover »

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2011, 09:34:40 PM »
The distinct elements of St Louis style are the provel cheese, thin unleavened crust, and sweet sauce.  Relative to the typical Chicago Style pizzas that I've enjoyed in the past, the STL style has a much thinner crust, so thin in fact that when I had my first STL style delivered in college I took the boxes from the delivery driver and got the immediate impression that I was holding empty boxes - I had to open a box to confirm that someone wasn't playing a joke on me -.  So it goes without saying that an STL pizza can be wholly consumed by a single person in a single sitting, which doesn't quite jibe with the premium price structure of the typical pie. 

But, St Louisan's love their Provel cheese,and if you don't make a special request you'll find it served on lasagna, garlic bread, meatball sandwiches, etc. Costco stores in the area offer big bags of it to help satiate the demand. Wikipedia explains the blend and texture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provel_cheese

The texture of the STL style dough varies from pizzeria to pizzeria as well as day to day.  Sometimes it has a little flop to it, and other times it will be crackery crisp.  Not being a St Louis native I'm not too crazy about it, which is frustrating since the majority of Mom and Pop's around here specialize in it.  If you are ever in the area I'd stop into an Imo's http://imospizza.com/ and give it a taste, it's unique and worth a try.  Then after you finish an entire pizza and are still hungry  :P you can stop by an STL pizzeria serving deep dish such as Pi http://www.restaurantpi.com/, or a Neapolitan place: The Good Pie http://thegoodpie.com/, or a New York Style place: Racanelli's http://racanellis.com/ or one of the regional chains such as JJ Twiggs http://www.jjtwigsstl.com/ or Dewey's http://deweyspizza.com/

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2011, 09:38:05 PM »
Thanks johnamus!  say, i noticed that the formulation you showed above contains yeast, so I'm a bit confused on how the dough is unleavened.   ???

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2011, 09:41:33 PM »
Thanks johnamus!  say, i noticed that the formulation you showed above contains yeast, so I'm a bit confused on how the dough is unleavened.   ???

This thread and the formulations posted in it are for Ohio Valley style, which is entirely different from St Louis style.  I probably should have sent you a private message regarding the STL info to keep from cluttering up this thread...

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2011, 09:45:27 PM »
sorry - i should have read the first couple of paragraphs better.  i thought you were using "Ohio Valley style" and "St. Louis style"interchangeably.   :-[

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2011, 09:56:24 PM »
Not your fault, I probably got a little pedantic in the first post and miscommunicated my message. 

Biancos, what do you have to say about sharing some details regarding your recipe?  :D

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 08:40:50 AM »
johnamus, Also not wanting to clutter this thread but....your comment about Imo's and St. Louis style not using leavening, yeast or baking powder has me curious as every copy cat recipe for this pizza crust on the internet calls out for some sort of leavening. Also though not a great amount of rise the pictures of slices I have seen would indicate, at least to me, some sort of yeast or BP is used. Could you clarify please? Thanks
Don

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 09:15:32 AM »
Don,
I could be wrong regarding the use of leavening.  My stand point is based on my indoctrination into the St Louis style during which many native St Louisan's specifically mentioned that the St Louis style did not contain yeast.  After eating this style on numerous occasions (too many for my tastes  :P) I didn't encounter enough rise in the crust to discredit it.  Like you mentioned, if there is any leavening used it must be a small amount (yeast, bp, etc).  If any trust can be placed in wikipedia, it also mentions the yeastless nature of the crust. 


 

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