Author Topic: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe  (Read 20455 times)

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buceriasdon

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 09:45:41 AM »
John, Thank you for the clarification. So they use baking powder then.
Don

Don,
I could be wrong regarding the use of leavening.  My stand point is based on my indoctrination into the St Louis style during which many native St Louisan's specifically mentioned that the St Louis style did not contain yeast.  After eating this style on numerous occasions (too many for my tastes  :P) I didn't encounter enough rise in the crust to discredit it.  Like you mentioned, if there is any leavening used it must be a small amount (yeast, bp, etc).  If any trust can be placed in wikipedia, it also mentions the yeastless nature of the crust.  
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 06:27:14 PM by buceriasdon »


Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 10:18:09 AM »
I still think this pizza is really just a midwestern-style thin crust, with a different cheese and perhaps without yeast.  (Perhaps I should note that Gondola Pizza in Winnipeg, Manitoba also has unleavened crust but it otherwise exactly like a chicago-style thin).

But even without yeast, it's still a midwesterm-style thin crust that just doesn't contain yeast.  It's great that St. Louisians are proud of their regional pizza, but on the other hand, anyone interested in pizza making or the historical development of regional pizza styles of pizza should recognize these styles are essentially the same.

The wikipedia page is a bit comical as it contains the sentence "St. Louis style pizza is unique even when compared to the Chicago-style thin crust pizza in that it is also cut into squares and is referred to as "party cut". [citation needed]" and yet many of the phrases and sentences on that page were copied word-for-woird from the Chicago-style thin page.   :-D
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 12:55:51 PM by CDNpielover »

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2011, 10:03:41 PM »
Alright, back onto the topic of Ohio-Valley style pizza :)  I received a 12x18 "Fat Daddio's" steel pan like the one here: http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Daddios-Sicilian-SlickDad-Coating/dp/B0036C6OGS/?tag=pizzamaking-20 and I'm going to attempt a starting point Ohio-Valley style recipe. 

The O-Valley style is similar to the Sicilian style in that it is made in a pan and is on the thicker side of the pizza spectrum, so I scoured the Sicilian forum section on this site and came across a Sicilian recipe posted by the respected member, Pizzablogger.  The crumb structure he achieved in his 65% hydration attempt here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8942.msg78094.html#msg78094 is very close to my recollection of slices served in the Ohio Valley.  I plugged the measurements of my pan's inside measurements (11x17) along with a .1 thickness factor into the Dough Calculator to arrive at the amounts in following table.  Pizzablogger incorporated a starter in his recipe, but for authenticity's sake (and since I lack a starter :P) I'll use .5% ADY mixed with a bit of the water (45.77g).  I also added 2% sugar since I remember seeing a large bag of sugar next to the mixer at Ray's pizza in Wintersville OH. 2% is consistent with some of the recipes posted in the Sicilian section.

This attempt is more or less an educated shot in the dark since the original DiCarlo's recipe that I posted earlier in the thread appears to be incorrect.  Either way I'll post my results and try to learn from this attempt.

Better for Bread Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
ADY (.5%):
Salt (2.48%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (169.98%):
316.56 g  |  11.17 oz | 0.7 lbs
205.77 g  |  7.26 oz | 0.45 lbs
1.58 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
7.85 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.41 tsp | 0.47 tbsp
6.33 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.59 tsp | 0.53 tbsp
538.1 g | 18.98 oz | 1.19 lbs | TF = 0.1015


Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2011, 11:02:25 PM »
A picture of the dough ball after a light 5 minute hand kneading is attached. The bowl was sprayed with Canola oil, covered, and placed in the fridge.

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2011, 09:57:41 PM »
After a 42 hour balled rise in the fridge followed by a 3 hour room-temp rise I stretched the dough out and realized that it was much too thin.  I scrunched it up a bit but it was still too thin.  For my next attempt I'm going to use the dough calculator to increase the thickness. 

For the bake itself I set the oven to 550° and placed the pie into the oven when the stone reached about 550°. Two things went wrong during the bake: 1. The pizza pan severely warped a few minutes after putting the pan into the oven. (By the way I'm extremely disappointed in my Fat Daddio pan and will not recommend them to anyone. What a waste of steel!) 2. I used a convection roast setting on my oven because I was counting on my pizza stone to transfer a lot of bottom heat and I wanted the top element to keep up with the top.  But as soon as the pan warped, the pizza essentially lost contact with the stone and all of its associated heat.  I switched to a Bake setting but it was too late, the top of the pie was over baked and the bottom of the pie wasn't quite done. (curse you Fat Daddio >:D)

Notes for my next attempt:
  • stick with the same dough formula
  • increase the thickness of the dough
  • bake the pie without the assistance of a stone
  • use the Bake setting on the oven
  • add a bit more sauce than I'm accustomed to using; on this attempt the sauce thinned out since there wasn't any cheese on top of the pie to help absorb the heat and retain moisture
  • instead of a 50%/50% mozzarella/provolone ratio dial it down to 75%/25%
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 10:28:25 PM by johnamus »

Offline thezaman

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2011, 11:44:36 PM »
there are a few pizzerias in Pittsburgh that make that style. i know the dough is prebaked and some cheese is added after it comes out of the oven. what i am excited about is the sauce. there is a restaurant in Youngstown that has great pizza sauce i noticed pieces of green pepper in it. it was so lite in the gp flavor it added a taste you could not quite figure out. i am going to try this sauce tomorrow. are the tomatoes number 10 cans,the large size used by most pizzerias? thank you and welcome to the forum!!!!  
  forgot to mention i think you water is to low, 65% water will still give a workable dough ball assuming it is high gluten flour
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 02:22:15 AM by thezaman »

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2011, 03:45:26 AM »
thezaman,
I know what you're talking about when you describe the sauce, there's something about it that sets it apart from other pizza syles. When I discovered that the dough recipe in the first post was inaccurate I decided to recreate the dough from scratch, and overlooked the sauce portion of the recipe.  I haven't tried it to know for sure, but I was also thinking that a #10 can is used.

I'm excited to see your results!

John

-thanks for the advice about the dough hydration. all the ingredients were weighed so I know it was 65% hydration on the dot. I think I need to knead the dough a bit longer next time

Offline thezaman

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2011, 07:42:42 AM »
sorry,i read earlier in the post a different percentage of water.i missed your 65%. i am not sure how to use the dough calculator a 24 to 25 ounce ball will give you a nice light dough.do you cover your pan with plastic wrap during the rise period? if not this will speed your rise. you may want to up the hydration if the dough is tight.

Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 12:00:44 PM »
sorry,i read earlier in the post a different percentage of water.i missed your 65%. i am not sure how to use the dough calculator a 24 to 25 ounce ball will give you a nice light dough.do you cover your pan with plastic wrap during the rise period? if not this will speed your rise. you may want to up the hydration if the dough is tight.

Zaman,

I cover the dough ball during the refrigerated rise and during the balled room temp rise.  My current process doesn't involve much of a pan rise, but the next time I make a panned pizza I'll follow your advice and give the dough a covered pan rise.  Perhaps I should rig up a proofing box to get an even better oven spring. 

What process would you follow to make an Ohio-Valley style dough?

Offline thezaman

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2011, 04:12:21 AM »
john, the pizza i had was from a pizzeria in Pittsburgh named batto's ,it was brought to me by a customer to try. seems similar to what you have described.i tried making a pizza tonight with pre baked dough and your sauce, sprinkling cheese after it came from the oven. it tasted pretty good for my first attempt. i can say your sauce is very good!!!! the green pepper ratio gives it a distinct, but unrecognizable flavor addition.i used a stick blender so the green peppers would not be visible.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 04:17:05 AM by thezaman »


Offline johnamus

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2011, 08:36:46 AM »
Zaman,

Your pizza looks tasty!!  Thanks for posting the pictures. I'm especially glad to hear that the sauce recipe turned out well.  Even though the dough recipe I posted in the first post of this thread turned out to be incorrect, based on your results it seems like the sauce recipe might be legit!

It looks like you made the commercial sized batch called for in the recipe, do you have access to a professional kitchen?

I can't wait to try the sauce recipe out. I'd like to scale down the quantity for my personal use; perhaps adjust the ingredients as required for a single can of 6in1's.

-John

Offline thezaman

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2011, 08:27:16 PM »
 john i have pizzeria in oberlin ohio. i did a half batch of sauce. today i made a Youngstown style pizza called brier hill style,(spelling not correct). it  was made using your sauce and topped with grated Romano chees, that was it.it was very authentic as the sauce went.so i think you nailed it.

Offline drphilwv

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2013, 02:40:35 PM »
Jumping in this thread as a newbie.  This is my favorite pizza - having grown up part of my life in Wheeling and developing an addiction for DiCarlos Pizza.  Did you settle on a final moisture % for the crust?  Also, did anyone parse down the sauce recipe so it can be done on a normal stovetop?  Can't wait to get cracking on my first attempt at this pizza!!!

Also - I thought the cheese was mostly provolone, or so I was one told back in high school.  What mix seems right?

Love this site.  Love it, love it. love it!!!

Dr.Phil











thezaman,
I know what you're talking about when you describe the sauce, there's something about it that sets it apart from other pizza syles. When I discovered that the dough recipe in the first post was inaccurate I decided to recreate the dough from scratch, and overlooked the sauce portion of the recipe.  I haven't tried it to know for sure, but I was also thinking that a #10 can is used.

I'm excited to see your results!

John

-thanks for the advice about the dough hydration. all the ingredients were weighed so I know it was 65% hydration on the dot. I think I need to knead the dough a bit longer next time

Offline drphilwv

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2013, 08:09:18 PM »
My facebook note on adaptation of the recipe herein. It's not Elm Grove DiCarlos but its coming out pretty good.

I have adapted it to using 1# bread flour, which I hope will be just about right for an 11x17 baking sheet.

Dough

Bread flour 1# (get your kitchen scale and weigh it)

Water 1.25c

Active dry yeast 1/4 tsp

Salt 2 tsp

Sugar 3/4 TBSP

My first attempt I will use warm water with the sugar and a little flour in it for a slurry, add the yeast, then let it bubble up over 1/2 hour of so.  Then add this to the remaining ingredients and combine until it forms what I hope to be a nice dough ball.  Then I will put it in the fridge to slow rise for a day or two until I decide to make the pizza.  That day I will take it out and let it come to room temp before stretching to the dimensions of the pan.

Sauce

96 oz crushed tomatoes w basil

2 cloves garlic

1/2c finely diced onion

1/2c finely diced green bell pepper

1/4c EVOO

This is a bit different proportion wise from the one on the pizzamaking.com site, but I wanted a little more robust sauce.  What Italian uses 2 garlic cloves in a sauce made from 450oz sauce?  None I know of.

So, I sweated the garlic, peppers and onions in olive oil for 10min or so until the onions were translucent, then added the tomatoes, brought it up to temp then simmered on low for 4 hours.  I plan to can what extra I have (10# pressure for 20 min).

Cheese

Krogers sells a generic "Pizza Cheese that is probably 75% mozzarella and 25% provolone and romano.  This is actually a pretty good cheese.  To get that weird granular quality rather than the long strings of cheese I froze the 32oz (2#) of the cheese and then put it in the cuisinart food processor and pulsed it until I got the consistency I was looking for. Then I let the cheese come to room temperature.

Pepperoni

Went with Hormel.  Use whatever one you like best.

Baking

Here's where there is a departure between what I had ever done before and what I leaned at pizzamaking.com.

Put your large rectangular baking stone into the oven and preheat to 525 degrees.  Yep.  You heard that right.  For 1 hour prior to baking!  This gets the stone super hot and ready to crisp the bottom of the pizza.  1 used an 11x17 well broken in aluminum baking pan that I bought some time ago at Sam's Club in their industrial food section.  I rubbed it down with a paper towel soaked with olive oil then stretched the dough to fit the pan.  You could roll it out then slide it into the pan as well.  I made sure the crust edge went up the side of the pan and went flush with the top of edge of the baking sheet.  Then I spread the sauce out onto the dough.  Slide the baking sheet onto the baking stone.  I have it in the upper third of the oven.  You may want it higher or lower.  I found 20min browned the crust edges and got the sauce pretty hot.  Remmeber I am living at 2000ft so if your altitude is different you will need to adjust your baking time.  Take the pizza out of the oven and spread your granular cheese over top of it.  Then spread out your pepperoni.  I thought I might have to cover it to get that melty cheese thing going but as it turns out that was unnecessary - I turned out just fine on its own.

The result?  It's not perfect yet.  The sauce ended up maybe a little too robust, but for me that was fine.  One could easily adjust down some of the ingredients.  I like a little garlic salt on mine afterward.  Please try the recipe and let me know what you think.  I am just starting out here so any and all help and adjustments to the recipe are welcome.

Phil

Offline meyer_bros

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Re: Ohio Valley style - DiCarlo's Pizza recipe
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 08:48:04 PM »
First of all, get those mushrooms off that piece. That is NOT Ohio Valley style. I have been going to DiCarlos since the mid 60's and I understand why the additional toppings, but not a big fan of them offering more than the traditional. Pizza is by the slice, 28 per pan. the only options used to be do you want pepperoni, and/or extra cheese, take it or leave it. That was it. and we all survived nicely thank you very much.

True story- growing up in that area, not counting what was in the frozen food case at the grocery, i never saw a triangular piece of pizza until I was probably 16-17. Gimme DiCarlo's any day. I miss the thin white boxes, too, that have given way to the standardized corrugated.
I am on  a mission to recreate the simple sauce and the crunchy crust. Wish me luck, until i get back to the Ohio Valley (mostly north of Wheeling) where I can get a boxful and sit in the car and eat until i am bloated. I go home every year at Thanksgiving, and usually on Thanksgiving, after that exhibition of gluttony, and before i leave for the drive home, i go into town (Steubenville or Wintersville or Toronto) or my new found favorite Jax in Richmond, and just pig out, even though i am already way past full. If you are in the area, don't miss Dicarlos or jax.


 

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