Author Topic: Joe's on Carmine St.  (Read 14741 times)

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Online scott123

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2013, 09:55:59 AM »
scott123,

Is there a reason why you are suggesting that the cake yeast always be dissolved in water? And, for such a prehydration, what water temperature would you suggest? Also, with respect to the oil, is there a reason for adding the oil up front rather than later?

Peter, both the moist and dry/clumpy starch used as the medium for yeast in cake and IDY dissolve great in water, on their own, but, once they're fighting for water with the flour, there's always the chance that they won't dissolve/disperse all that well. With my low knead doughs, I became more acutely aware of potential yeast dispersal issues and have been prehydrating the yeast ever since. Adding the yeast to the water and giving it a quick swirl is no more work than adding it to the flour, and I can rest easy that the yeast has been fully dispersed.

My policy on water temp is to go with whatever is easiest to work with along with the most consistent.  I know ADY has issues with lower water temps, so, for this reason, I no longer work with it nor do I recommend it to others.  As far as cake and IDY go, though, I feel that any water temp that produces a final dough temp between 55 and 80 is fine.  The only thing that I'm a stickler about is that the final dough temp be pretty much the same from day to day, so the water should, if possible, be a consistent temp.  If room temp is relatively consistent and not too high, that's ideal. If room temp is 70 and final dough temp is below 80, there's nothing wrong with that.  If tap water is used straight from the faucet, then it's a bit more complicated, as tap water temp varies.

We've talked about oil mixing approaches previously.  You spoke about how, in your experience, higher oil doughs had gluten development issues with early oil, but you didn't see any of these issues with lower oil early oil doughs.  I took your experience, combined it with my experience with lower oil doughs being unaffected by mixing order, felt that was enough data points to support the hypothesis, and, decided, at that point, to present it as fact  ;D I don't work with All Trumps any more, but I've made more than 300 All Trumps pies with 3% oil, all added before the flour, and, like All Trumps has a tendency to do, these all formed gluten like it was going out of style.

I've never made a 5+% oil dough, so I'll leave the recommendations for those types of doughs up to you, but, for NY (<4%), it's always oil into water for me and for the people I teach.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 10:19:28 AM by scott123 »


Offline Bobino414

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2013, 12:52:50 PM »
Hello  Paolo

Regarding your cheese issues, have you tried using fresh or aged Oaxaca cheese.  If I recall correctly it melts similar to Polly-O.  Maybe you can get your hands on Oaxaca curd and make your own.  There are domesticated water buffalo in Mexico so you might be able to source your cheese that way-it has got to be cheaper than importing.

I also noticed some "grumos" on your baking surface.  Are you having issues with dough tearing, sticking, or just retrieving the pie?

Bob

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2013, 01:14:19 PM »
Peter, both the moist and dry/clumpy starch used as the medium for yeast in cake and IDY dissolve great in water, on their own, but, once they're fighting for water with the flour, there's always the chance that they won't dissolve/disperse all that well. With my low knead doughs, I became more acutely aware of potential yeast dispersal issues and have been prehydrating the yeast ever since. Adding the yeast to the water and giving it a quick swirl is no more work than adding it to the flour, and I can rest easy that the yeast has been fully dispersed.

My policy on water temp is to go with whatever is easiest to work with along with the most consistent.  I know ADY has issues with lower water temps, so, for this reason, I no longer work with it nor do I recommend it to others.  As far as cake and IDY go, though, I feel that any water temp that produces a final dough temp between 55 and 80 is fine.  The only thing that I'm a stickler about is that the final dough temp be pretty much the same from day to day, so the water should, if possible, be a consistent temp.  If room temp is relatively consistent and not too high, that's ideal. If room temp is 70 and final dough temp is below 80, there's nothing wrong with that.  If tap water is used straight from the faucet, then it's a bit more complicated, as tap water temp varies.

We've talked about oil mixing approaches previously.  You spoke about how, in your experience, higher oil doughs had gluten development issues with early oil, but you didn't see any of these issues with lower oil early oil doughs.  I took your experience, combined it with my experience with lower oil doughs being unaffected by mixing order, felt that was enough data points to support the hypothesis, and, decided, at that point, to present it as fact  ;D I don't work with All Trumps any more, but I've made more than 300 All Trumps pies with 3% oil, all added before the flour, and, like All Trumps has a tendency to do, these all formed gluten like it was going out of style.

scott123,

Thank you for your explanation. Cake yeast is not sold near where I live so I usually refer others to the advice that Tom Lehmann dispenses on how to use the cake yeast. His advice is usually to just crumple the cake yeast into the flour. However, in cases where the cake yeast is to be used to make a dough that is to be hand kneaded or where the knead time is to be less than about 4 minutes, he advocates that the cake yeast be prehydrated in warm water. The same advice is given for ADY and IDY. Some links to this topic are Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21637.msg218711/topicseen.html#msg218711 and Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21449.msg216597/topicseen.html#msg216597.

Peter

Online scott123

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2013, 01:41:16 PM »
Thanks, Peter, that's good to know.  It looks like Tom and I are in a somewhat similar ballpark.  My dough, is, indeed, in the vicinity of a 4 minute knead (perhaps a bit more now that I use a more overkneading proof 13.2% protein flour), although time is incredibly relative depending on equipment. We also seem to part ways with the prehydration temp.  I don't know if he's ramping the temp as a kind of mini-proof/yeast wake-up, but I don't subscribe to that concept in the slightest.  The starch in both CY and IDY dissolves just fine in cool water as it does warm.  As far as I know, there's no possible downside to adding refrigerated IDY (how I recommend storing IDY) or CY straight to 55-75 deg. water. With no extra work and no potential negative ramifications on the yeast to water side, and potential dispersal issues, regardless of how improbable, on the yeast to flour side, I'm going yeast to water every time.

Offline Camaro10

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2013, 04:01:02 PM »
Question Scott....Why cake yeast? What does it do differently than IDY?

Online scott123

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2013, 04:25:23 PM »
Question Scott....Why cake yeast? What does it do differently than IDY?

There is a contingent of forum members, myself included, who believe that cake yeast produces a slightly better oven spring than IDY or ADY.  There are also those that don't  ;D  I think cake yeast, for the home baker, is a bit moot, in that I believe the alleged improved oven spring only occurs if the cake yeast is very fresh, and supermarket cake yeast is a crap shoot.  If one has access to fresh cake yeast and in a position to make a lot of pizzas (or throw a lot of yeast away), then I think that's the way to go.  Until I start selling 100 pies a day, though, I'm sticking with IDY. 

A few years back my local bakery was selling 1 lb. blocks of yeast for $2, but after doing this for about 5 years, they switched to 2 lb. blocks for $5. As it was, I was throwing away most of the 1 lb. blocks, so that ended my source.

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2013, 04:37:20 PM »
Thanks, Peter, that's good to know.  It looks like Tom and I are in a somewhat similar ballpark.  My dough, is, indeed, in the vicinity of a 4 minute knead (perhaps a bit more now that I use a more overkneading proof 13.2% protein flour), although time is incredibly relative depending on equipment. We also seem to part ways with the prehydration temp.  I don't know if he's ramping the temp as a kind of mini-proof/yeast wake-up, but I don't subscribe to that concept in the slightest.  The starch in both CY and IDY dissolves just fine in cool water as it does warm.  As far as I know, there's no possible downside to adding refrigerated IDY (how I recommend storing IDY) or CY straight to 55-75 deg. water. With no extra work and no potential negative ramifications on the yeast to water side, and potential dispersal issues, regardless of how improbable, on the yeast to flour side, I'm going yeast to water every time.
scott123,

I am pretty sure that the prehydration of the yeast that Tom talks about is a small part of the total formula water that is at the desired or prescribed prehydration temperature. That amount of the prehydration water typically comes to about 4-5 times the weight of the yeast. The rest of the formula water should be of a temperature to achieve the desired finished dough temperature.

Peter

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2013, 04:43:00 PM »
Peter, thanks for the clarification.

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2013, 04:44:28 PM »
Question Scott....Why cake yeast? What does it do differently than IDY?

Camaro10,

I excepted an article on the different forms of yeast by Tom Lehmann in Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7465.msg64349.html#msg64349. In terms of nomenclature, fresh yeast, cake yeast, brick yeast, wet yeast and compressed yeast are all the same.

Peter

Offline Camaro10

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2013, 06:23:49 PM »
Thanks guys


Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2013, 09:37:05 PM »
Scott123, I think know what quality of tomatoes you are referring to. Itís actually very difficult to get your hands on them in Mexico City since virtually all of it gets exported. Although I donít know why for sure, my best guess is that since fresh fruit and produce is so cheap in general thereís no point in even trying to sell it here when the producers can sell it at a premium as an export product. As far as getting those amazing tomatoes in a canned form I am not currently aware of anyone doing it. I havenít researched as thoroughly as I could (yet) but it seems a pretty safe bet to say that they arenít. I havenít been to my local walmart lately to get you a picture of the current brands of tomatoes, but Iíll make sure to take it when I do.

I donít see canned crushed tomatoes on any of the product lists from the importers I work with, but Iíll ask them and see. Out of curiousity, why are crushed tomatoes more flavorful than the whole? Concerning the regional tomato producers, there are plenty I know of (some of them are even technically inside the ďmetropolitan areaĒ but I havenít had a chance to go and speak to them). The chances of them canning their products are probably slim, but itís another one of your various recommendations Iíll be trying alongside your comments concerning, olive oil, cake yeast dissolved in water, salt, oil percentage and my mixing process.

Iíll be getting my lower protein ďHoja de PlataĒ flour this week. Iíll get you photos of my doughs after kneading with the different flours Iím using. For my next several trials Iíll give 1% sugar a shot.

The picture of my oven setup was taken after I had already taken out 2/3rds of the tiles. Iíll get  a picture of the full setup next time, Iíll give only one layer of UQTís a shot also. My oven dimensions are 23 inches wide by 15 inches tall by 16 inches deep.

As far as getting bigger tiles, it looks pretty difficult. After calling a lot of stores and manufacturers it seems that thereís only one company that makes UQTís in Mexico called Klinker. They told me that the currently only make a 12x6 inch tile which is what Iím currently using. Later on in the week Iím getting my black glazed tiles so I can modify my oven to your diagramís standards. Iíll attach pictures of my oven setup once I get everything in place, to make sure I'm doing it properly.

I have read a bit concerning elevation, ever since I started my baked goods business I realized I was going to have to change a few things to get the ďsea levelĒ recipes to taste perfect. Problem was I didnít have any idea of what ďhigher hydrationĒ actually meant in percentage numbers. Iíll be doing a two day rise with 64% hydration for my next trial.

Thanks for the support and positive feedback. Even though Iíve only been participating for a few weeks this forum will very surely be the difference between my pizzeria selling something good, and something excellent.

Paulo

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2013, 12:04:42 AM »
Paulo, crushed tomatoes are considerably more flavorful than whole because whole tomatoes, in order to survive the rigors of processing and still be intact, have to be made with relatively underripe tomatoes, while crushed tomatoes are made from riper ones.

Your reasoning sounds on the money regarding lack of access to the exported tomatoes.  Keep your nose to the ground, though, and attack every possible lead- and never give up.  Even after you open and are successful, still keep an eye out for better tomatoes.

Re; the flour, just to be clear, something looks a little bit off, but I'm not, at this point suggesting you try other flours.  If you do end up trying something else, you definitely want to stick to 13% protein or higher malted flours. I'm pretty sure that correcting for elevation with a shorter fermentation will go a long way to showcase the quality of your present flour.

If you're oven is 16" deep, that means that you want a hearth that's 16 x 16 and a ceiling that covers all 16 x 23 on the shelf above it (minus 1/2" gap for air flow). The tiles you're using look fine. Is there any chance you can track down equipment to cut them so you can hit that 16 x 16 dimension?

Member Jackie Tran (Chau) does a mean NY style pie and he's in Albuquerque, NM at 5,000 feet, while you're at 8,000.  Hopefully he'll chime in with some of his expertise.  I think we might end up going farther north with the water (65 and higher), but, for now, let's see what 64 does.

Keep up the good work! You're on the right track   :)

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2013, 02:15:52 AM »
Hello Bobino414,

Iíve never made a pizza with Oaxaca cheese, although I do eat it frequently. Even though it could be quite good, Iím trying to get as close as possible to an authentic NY street style which means aged mozzarella. Iíve never compared it to Polly-O, but youíre probably right on the melting properties, although taste Iím guessing would be very different. I could definitely get my hands on Oaxaca curd or even just buy it fresh, itís dirt cheap if you know where to buy it. Actually, I once read an article about how fresh Oaxaca cheese is a direct descendent of fresh mozzarella. If I can find it Iíll post the link.

Grande is going to be super expensive, the problem is I did a 6 person blind taste test with grande,  sorrento, sargento, polly-O, and a locally (Bronx) produced aged mozzarella last time I was in NY and Grande blew everything else away. From my very many pizza trials, one of the main things Iíve noticed is that a lot of food for Mexicans relies heavily on the cheese. Itís what they notice the most and how they usually choose what pizzeria/taco joint/quesadilla place to go to.

 As far as water buffalo go, Iíve actually tried fresh buffalo mozzarella from different ranches in Mexico but they were all awful (as in unedible). At some point I may consider a more upscale elite/Neapolitan style restaurant using fresh mozzarella, and in that case I would most likely make my own from Mexican water buffalo. But after a lot of research, a lot of trials and asking potential customers a lot of questions, it seems aged mozzarella is my safest bet for this first venture.

Paying import fees, transport and the most expensive aged mozzarella Iíve found is a risky decision, and one I hope I donít regret. But at the same time I also believe it will be the difference between having amazing NY style pizza in Mexico City and just being another restaurant selling something thatís ďalmost thereĒ. Nonetheless, in appreciation for your interest I promise I will do a pizza trial using fresh Oaxaca cheese, take pictures and let you know how it melted/tasted.

Nope, no issues with retrieving the pies or anything of the sort. The ďgrumosĒ haha are an experiment that went HORRIBLY wrong. My large wooden pizza peel was still in the mail so I tried to dress a 14Ē pie on an aluminum sheet pan. It didnít come off easily (or maybe ďat allĒ would be more accurate) which gave me what I baptized as my first Toucan Pizza. Thatís honestly how it came out of the oven, yikes.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2013, 02:30:21 AM »
Scott 123,

Great tip on the crushed tomatoes, Iíll find them instead of the whole. Iíll also keep my eyes open for better tomatoes, even if itís not very commercial it would still probably be much cheaper than paying imported products. Iíll make a point to dedicate more time to it.

In the case of the flour, Iíll keep using the same Alta ProteŪna for now switching the other variables such as fermentation times and hydration. That way I can have the full picture before trying a different protein percentage.

I had misunderstood what you meant by cutting them, I thought you were talking about getting much larger tiles. I have access to equipment for cutting tiles, Iíll make sure to do so to get a perfect fit.

64 it is!

Offline Essen1

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2013, 03:23:55 AM »
I have no idea what "Joe's on Carmine" pizza is like.  :(

Never had it and can't really comment on it, which is a bummer. But...I think some pics are in order so we all know what Joe's pies look like.

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/joes-pizza-new-york-4?select=iYtWAyzD9Ikm9CnY2usCKw#iYtWAyzD9Ikm9CnY2usCKw

PizzaSean...that dough/crust should be relatively easy to be recreated. For a home oven, that is.

I'm sure Scotty123 is on it already  ;D
Mike

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Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2013, 04:58:00 AM »
Scott,

I made my dough for this weekís pizza trial following this dough formulation:

Flour (100%):    763.41 g  |  26.93 oz | 1.68 lbs
Water (64%):    488.58 g  |  17.23 oz | 1.08 lbs
CY (1%):    7.63 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs |
Salt (2%):    15.27 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.74 tsp | 0.91 tbsp
Sugar (1%):    7.63 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.91 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Total (168%):   1282.52 g | 45.24 oz | 2.83 lbs | TF = 0.08
Single Ball:   256.5 g | 9.05 oz | 0.57 lbs

TF: 0.08
Five 12 inch dough balls. Iíll be making bigger pizzas starting next week, but my pizza peel order got mixed up.

I tried to follow your instructions as best as possible regarding amounts of everything as well as the mixing process. I added my salt and sugar to the flour, then dissolved the yeast in the water and lastly added all of the flour mixture to the water. I mixed for 5 minutes with the paddle attachment, and another 4 with the dough hook. Finished dough temperature was 71 F. Do you have any recommendations on using the paddle and/or the dough hook when mixing, or if my mixing times seem a little lenghty? I chose this method because thatís the way  I did it the first few times and it gave me a smooth consistency dough ball. By adding all the flour at once I didnít get any flour lumps or unmixed bits in the end result. Below are the photos you requested of the dough right off the hook and of an individual dough ball after scaling and balling, about 10 minutes later.

I got my black tiles, got them cut for a perfect fit and will be trying your suggested oven setup on Thursday. The only thing I donít have figured out yet is the sheet pan. I have aluminum ďairbakeĒ pans, but those can get warped at such high temperatures. What material would you suggest I buy?

Iíll upload photos on Thursday so you can see the end result of the pizzas as well as the setup.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2013, 02:38:51 AM »
Ok Scott, so first the setup.  I think I got everything right with the exception of the 3 inches between the UQTís  and the black glazed tiles. I had to do 4 inches because I had already been fiddling for an hour and a half and absolutely had to turn my oven on in time for my pizza trial. Iíll need to find some way to get the black tile rack right in between the second and third slot inside the oven since one is 2 inches above and the other is 4. 2 inches was too small a space for my amateur pizza placing skills. I didnít use any aluminum foil on top of the black tiles either because I ran out 15 minutes before turning my oven on, but also I wouldnít have known where to put it. It says ďto fill in the gapsĒ but I didnít have any except for the Ĺ inch gap that ran down the middle. Does it look like I did anything wrong?

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2013, 03:05:55 AM »
Now for the pizzas. Iím very glad to say that thanks to your (and Peter's of course) help and expertise tonight was the first time after dozens of trials that my crust tasted like a NY style street slice. Itís very obviously not perfect and still needs many modifications before itís ready to be sold. But the look on my 3 friends face when they said almost in unison: ďThis is the first time Iíve had a pizza where the crust tastes good by itselfĒ reminded me of my first trip to NYC, and is one of the main reasons why Iím doing this.

As far as problems, first of all the oven seemed to be all over the place. Some pies came out less browned on top then others, in general they were much better browned in the back then in the front and as I had read on one of your posts after my third pie the burner switched off, giving my fourth and last pizza a soft chain-like crust consistency. The first three had very good taste and structure but too little browning on the undercarriage for my own personal liking. I also think in general they could all have been a little more browned on top. I baked 2 of them for 5 minutes and 2 for 5 1/2, I let the dough rise at room temp (still pretty cold) for 3 hours before baking and I left the oven on max for 1 hour 10 minutes before putting anything in.

The 2 day cold rise gave me better flavor than any other dough before it, getting rid of the oil appears to have really helped the texture, and stretching these skins was a pleasure. Iím guessing the sugar also helped in some way. Nice amount of stretch, very easy to handle and overall great feel. Do you think my general lack of browning could have to do with that extra inch I had between the UQTís and the black tile? Or maybe something more to do with the formulation or the fact that even with all the modifications, itís still just a home oven. I await your instructions. First pizza is a 3 cheese (gouda, gorgonzola, grana padano) and the second is my own homemade spicy Italian sausage, red onion and grana padano.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 01:10:01 PM by paulo.vllrr »

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2013, 02:50:51 PM »
Paulo, well done.

For what it's worth, the heat balance gains of my broilerless design, were, up until now, theoretical. The theory was/is, imo, rock solid, but, thanks to you and your perseverance, we now have real world results.

We've got some ground to cover, so, let's get to it.

As I mentioned on the broilerless page that I linked to, an Infrared thermometer is critical for this setup. The only way to know what your oven is capable of is to take plenty of temperature readings.  Here are my recommendations:

NY temps
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1-2-lcd-digital-infrared-thermometer-orange-black-123695?item=8
http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Temperature-Non-Contact-Infrared-Thermometer/dp/B00837ZGRY/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Neapolitan temps
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/gm700-1-5-lcd-non-contact-infrared-thermometer-yellow-black-1-x-9v-104614?item=32

Dealextreme is very competitively priced, but it ships from Hong Kong, which takes a while.

It could be the photo, but a piece of the quarry tile looks like it's raised a bit, creating a lip to your hearth surface.  This can cause tearing.  Are your tiles flat?

I'm not seeing enough flop, which is a bake time/water thing.  This is going to make your present bake time issue even worse, but we need to increase the hydration.   I think 66% is in order.  That should compensate for elevation a bit better. A thinner stretch will help compensate for the longer bake time from the additional water.  I think you've made enough pizzas to start venturing into more difficult stretching territory.  Next TF: .075.

Speaking of compensating for the water and decreasing the bake time, we're ready for 2% sugar.  That's as high as I'd recommend, though- enough to achieve browning, but not enough to create any kind of perceived sweetness.

The texture looks fantastic.  So good, in fact, that I'm going recommend adding oil again.  Oil is a browning accelerator, so, just like the sugar is helping out in your slightly cool environment, oil is important as well. Next: 2% vegetable oil.

That's about as far as we can take the formula towards encouraging both floppiness and browning. Now on to the oven setup.

It looks like the quarry tiles that you're using lack enough conductivity and are thick enough that they might not need deflection.  Lose the pan underneath.

You mentioned uneven browning. You're using a metal turning peel and turning the pizza during the bake, right? Also, related to browning- I can't tell from the photo, but is there a gap between the tiles and the back wall?  The tiles need to be centered, front to back.

The position of your thermostat probe (center top) is a bit disappointing.  I think upper corner is a more common placement.  The fact that your probe is right over your ceiling gap is allowing the rising heat to drive the temp up quickly.  Here's my suggestion.  Take the pan that was hanging under the tiles and put it, with some kind of spacer, on top of the ceiling/across the gap.  Do you have any stray bits of tile around? 4 small pieces (anything from the size of a quarter to the diameter of a lemon would work) would work nicely as spacers. The goal is to lift the pan, so that hot air can come up the gap and then flow up and around the pan. Because it's moving the heat to the sides, your thermostat should heat up a bit slower.

I'm curious, can your thermostat be unhooked/unscrewed and moved elsewhere?

I mixed for 5 minutes with the paddle attachment, and another 4 with the dough hook. Finished dough temperature was 71 F. Do you have any recommendations on using the paddle and/or the dough hook when mixing, or if my mixing times seem a little lenghty?


The mixing/kneading time is always based upon final appearance.  Based on the photo you have here, and the assumption that this is 13.6% protein flour, it's a bit long.  Next time, try 4 minutes paddle, 3 dough hook.

As you're fully aware, you're moving in the right direction.  Let's tweak the formula, order a thermometer, see what hearth temps/ceiling temps we're achieving, and start thinking a bit more about probe isolation.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2013, 03:13:41 AM »
Thanks Scott I had no idea it was just theoretical, very impressive. Itís been 4 weeks in a row that my friend with the IR scanner shows up two hours late to the pizza trial. He had also told me that the cheapest one was several hundred dollarsÖIím not making any excuses though I shouldíve looked into it myself and resolved it by now. Anyway, my scannerís in the mail and on itís way.

The piece of quarry tile is raised because itís a very  small piece I hammered out in a pinch and it wasnít large enough to lie flat on two wires of the rack. But yes, my tiles are flat. Hopefully by next week Iíll have some bigger pieces cut out to fit evenly on the rack.

66% hydration, 0.75 TF, 2% sugar, 2% vegetable oil, 4 minute paddle, 3 dough hook. Check.

I donít have a metal peel nor came to the conclusion that I needed to turn the pizza during the bake, even after watching 100 videos and 30 different pizzaiolo in action. Oops. Iíll get one asap. Thereís a Ĺ gap between the tiles and the back wall, you canít see it because of the picture angle but thatís as far away as I could get it without sacrificing hearth surface.

As far as the thermostat being moved, I couldnít do it easily by hand but I might be able to with some basic tools. Let me give you the brief on this weekís trial and weíll go from there.

Exact same dough formulation/mixing process/2 day ferment/reball/room temp rise as last time since I made it on Tuesday before seing your most recent post. Below are the pictures of my latest oven setup, I did what you said with the spacers and pan blocking the heat (how does it look?) and lost the pan underneath. These modifications had a HUGE impact, it was definitely much hotter in the lower half of the oven and the top browning was great, although the bottom of the first pizza got very very burnt. First pizza was baked for 5 Ĺ minutes, with a failed attempt of turning with my small wooden peel mid-bake. Second pie was 4 minutes, no attempt at rotation. Until I take the scans I can't say for sure, but your idea for moving the heat away from the probe seems to have worked quite nicely. That lower compartment is getting extremely hot.

I realize that the temp readings are absolutely essential, Iíll get a borrowed scanner before Thursday for next week while my own arrives in the mail. This is by far the best oven mod I think anyone could do to their broilerless home oven, really great stuff.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 03:34:57 AM by paulo.vllrr »


 

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