Author Topic: Joe's on Carmine St.  (Read 15849 times)

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Offline edgeco1

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #140 on: August 15, 2013, 08:27:49 AM »
Thanks for that link...which leads to more links  ;D

Lots of great stuff here.

edge.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #141 on: August 15, 2013, 08:48:46 AM »
Thanks for that link...which leads to more links  ;D
edge,

Yes. It's like the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon :-D

Peter

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #142 on: August 22, 2013, 05:12:16 PM »
Peter/Scott,

Thankfully I'm back to pizza trials after my short "break", I'll be posting pictures/dough formulations tomorrow of tonight's trial along with a few other questions.

There is a SLIGHT chance that some rather ambitious gentlemen are going to hire me to develop pizza for a new franchise restaurant (big emphasis on delivery) they're planning on opening here in Mexico. The chances of it actually happening are slim for many reasons but from what I understood they're looking for an american style/domino's-ish type pizza. I've been scouring the forum but there are so many different options I thought it might be easier to ask if either one of you had a particular recommendation to a thread or dough formulation.

Being as obsessed with NY Style as I am, I'm going to push them more towards a thicker (maybe .1 TF) NY pie instead of american, but I understand where they're coming from. Teenagers and moms ordering delivery pizza are more interested in filling crusts with tons of toppings and robust sauces than "super thin, super fresh tomato sauce and expensive imported cheese placed sparingly next to a couple bits of sausage", at least in Mexico (and in my own opinion).

By the way, the opportunity for the meeting next week is I'd say probably about 90% thanks to you as well as the rest of this forum. One of the investors came to my last pizza trial (without a direct invitation from me I might add) and I believe the exact words were "How the **** did you just bake a pizza in 4 minutes using a home oven and some floor tiles?". My answer was quite simply: "Scott"  :-D . Whether or not anything comes out of this, at least I already have a good story. And in case anyone was wondering, this in no way means I'm slowing down on my original project.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #143 on: August 23, 2013, 01:59:24 AM »
So for this week's trial I added oil back in, unfortunately I forgot that it's supposed to be vegetable oil and not olive oil but the results were very tasty either way. 64 hydration, 2 salt, 1 IDY (didn't have time to buy cake yeast), 1 sugar and 1 oil. 2 day rest as usual and a two hour room temp rise, no reball. With the two hour preheat I'm hitting that 4 minute bake time with every pie now, my second pie today (of which there are no pictures) I left in for 4:45 to see what happened and while still very good, was overbaked. The dough is still a bit too chewy but has a nice crisp crust with a soft crumb on the inside. The flavor is there though. At least for this specific kind of pizza style I'm definitely seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. What I had imagined tastewise in my head when I first started out is now very, very close...except with a much tastier sauce ;D

I'm thinking 65 hydration and 2 oil for next week.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #144 on: August 23, 2013, 02:01:34 AM »
more pics, the picture above of the dough ball is right before stretching.

Offline jjdec05

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #145 on: September 06, 2013, 08:11:14 PM »
just clicked forward a few pages in the thread, the pies your making now look amazing, right out of a ny pizzeria.

i've just started adding oil to increase browning. why do you use vegetable as opposed to olive oil? Higher smoking point?

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #146 on: September 24, 2013, 03:00:43 AM »
jjdec05,

Thank you for your compliments, it's been quite a few trials but I think I'm just about there. I hadn't posted any pictures over the last few weeks because there wasn't anything new to report, until last thursday. I finally got a ny street slice consistency combined with the flavor I wanted in a 4:30 minute bake time, I'll upload pictures tomorrow.

I started using vegetable oil instead of olive because Scott told me to, saying it had to do with taste. Vegetable oil, having a more neutral taste, seems to be giving the elasticity I need without adding any flavor. I'm no expert on this particular subject, but that's what I understood/noticec. Although, my trial last week was done using Canola oil (up until five minutes ago I was under the impression that canola and vegetable oil were the same) and it's been my best ever. I used only 1%, I'd start there and move my way up depending on results.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #147 on: September 26, 2013, 02:00:45 AM »
jjdec05, by the way what kind of specific pizza style are you making? Are you using a home oven?

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #148 on: September 26, 2013, 02:04:17 AM »
Last week was finally what I was looking for as far as consistency. I did quite a few things differently (probably not the best idea for following a scientific method) so Iím not sure which one actually got me over the top. Over the next few weeks Iíll be doing trials taking stuff away one by one until I figure it out, in the meantime hereís the dough formulation.
Flour (100%):    398.42 g  |  14.05 oz | 0.88 lbs
Water (64%):    254.99 g  |  8.99 oz | 0.56 lbs
CY (1%):    3.98 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs |
Salt (2%):    7.97 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.43 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
Oil (1%):    3.98 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Sugar (1%):    3.98 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Total (169%):   673.32 g | 23.75 oz | 1.48 lbs | TF = 0.07
Single Ball:   224.44 g | 7.92 oz | 0.49 lbs

Flour is Elizondo Alta ProteŪna Flour at 13.6% protein. Over the past few weeks I tried the same brandís Hoja de Plata flour which is at 12.8% protein and ALL results were terrible. No matter what I did the bread was completely tasteless, like eating air. Maybe it was my lack of knowledge or experience but at least from my tests, I need the higher protein percentage for flavor to develop properly.

Water was at 68F, fresh cake yeast, finely ground sea salt, canola oil, standard sugar.

4 minute paddle and 3 minute dough hook in a stand mixer. The dough ball was scaled and balled immediately using a very simple balling method (fold in and under while circling a few times than roll around on a lightly floured table), 27 hour cold ferment in a 36F refridgerator, 2 hour 15 minute room temperature rise at 73F, no reball. I only got the picture of my last pie which was the best. 4 minute 45 seconds bake at 617F (hearth temperature), rotation at the 3:30 minute mark.

The dough was made only one day before the trial to see what happened versus my normal 2 day cold ferment. While the consistency was perfect (finally!!!) the flavor wasnít as good as usual, Iím guessing this has to do with less time in the fridge.

Tomorrow is the exact same dough formulation, bake time, oven temp etc. except with a two day dough. Iíll report back later in the week.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #149 on: September 26, 2013, 02:07:19 AM »
Also, TF was 0.07. Scott was right (again).


Offline jjdec05

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #150 on: October 02, 2013, 11:13:52 PM »
Those pies look fantastic Paulo. When I make my rendition of NY Style, which I still need to improve tremendously, they are baked in a home oven at 550 degrees for about 7-10 minutes. I have been using olive oil because it is what is in the house. I've found that in such small amounts >5% it has no impact on flavor. My concern as of recently was smoking points of different oils. I remember hearing that olive oil has the lowest smoking point of any oil. So I have been pondering the impact it has on the finished product.

 My use for oil is attempting improve softness, getting that perfect crisp, yet pillowy combination. I increased the amount of olive oil last time I made pies and I was disappointed in the results. The crust was far too crisp. I have a batch of neapolitan dough for tomorrow sans oil, but for my next NY batch I will try 1% canola and possibly add sugar as well. I've never added sugar, perhaps that will  help.

Offline paulo.vllrr

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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
« Reply #151 on: February 17, 2014, 03:08:39 AM »
Thanks jjdec05! Sorry for not answering sooner but I didn't get my usual e-mail notification when someone else posts.

My first several NY style tries were with olive oil and I never got good results. Smoking point is an interesting idea, unfortunately I'm not knowledgable enough on the matter to give an exact answer on whether or not that has anything to do. What I can say is that canola oil and sugar where fundamental in me hitting the right formulation. After those last pictures I tried without sugar and using olive oil instead with pretty bad results. Try 1% and 1%, it did wonders for my pies.

What kind of oven setup are you using (or where since this is an old post) as well as dough formulation?
Post some pictures if possible!



 

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