Author Topic: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?  (Read 3882 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline randyjohnsonhve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 131
  • Location: Coeur D'Alene, Idaho
Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« on: May 04, 2012, 04:54:14 PM »
        Sorry, but this is likely a controversial subject...In Cook's Illustrated, they used white vinegar in an attempt to achieve the sour dough taste...The no knead, cook in a dutch oven, hearth bread is really pretty good...I have recently tried to add 1t white vinegar to each 250g of dough and it does give it a tang...I still have the same lift, char, cornicione...Flour, Spring Water, Just Mix, Hydrated Yeast, Just Mix, Hydrated Salt, Just Mix, Vinegar, Just Mix, 67% Hydration, 20min Autolyse, then remaining flour until just mixed, then hand kneaded to achieve point of pasta under 78F...1hr 90F Bulk, 6hr 37F Ball, 2hr 69F to opening of dough...It seems to work, again not traditional, but gives a little tang using ADY and not maintaining a levain...Bring on the thoughts

RJelli :chef:
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 12:22:50 AM by randyjohnsonhve »
"Pizza Evolves...Our Best Pizza Ever is Not Today." It is 'what' is right, not 'who' is right that matters.


Offline David Deas

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 346
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 04:24:33 PM »
A lot of folks don't ferment to the point of the bread becoming noticeably sour.  Because a lot of folks don't like sour tasting bread.  What a sourdough will do us give you a depth of flavor that you can't achieve otherwise, whether the finished product is sour or not. 

Offline randyjohnsonhve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 131
  • Location: Coeur D'Alene, Idaho
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 04:55:45 PM »

Thanks for the information...

How hard is it to maintain a starter if you do pizza twice a month...Does it have to be maintained everyday?

Also, your thoughts on using a starter with ADY?

Appreciate your feedback,
RJelli :chef:
"Pizza Evolves...Our Best Pizza Ever is Not Today." It is 'what' is right, not 'who' is right that matters.

Offline rcbaughn

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 929
  • Age: 26
  • Location: Birmingham, AL
  • Love my pup and pizza!
    • My Facebook
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 06:00:51 PM »
Maintaining one is really easy, especially if you refrigerate it. It doesn't need to be fed but every month from what I have read, and when your ready to use it you take it out a couple days prior and feed it every 12 hours to get it built up and active/ready to cook with. breadtopia.com is a great website to learn on, I would recommend checking it out.

P.S. - You can't really start a starter from ADY, not a real one at least. The website above lays it out pretty well though on how to do one. If you're talking about about adding ADY to a recipe that also calls for sourdough though, I have never had to do it because my starter is pretty active and rises well, but I guess for some less active starter strains you may have to do so, or to get your bread to rise faster. You won't get the flavors to come through as well if you make it rise faster with ADY though.

-Cory
More is better..... and too much is just right.

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 07:19:37 PM »
I have used vinegar from time to time in pizza dough, not to the extent that it can be tasted clearly but in moderate amounts it can be an aid to oven rise. If over done it will inhibit rise. I have also noted it does make the skin more pliable and easy to work if used judiciously. I add vinegar to my slider bun dough and really like the texture over without and the crust is a bit crispier.
Don
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 07:26:03 PM by buceriasdon »

Offline David Deas

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 346
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 07:38:51 PM »
Thanks for the information...

How hard is it to maintain a starter if you do pizza twice a month...Does it have to be maintained everyday?

Also, your thoughts on using a starter with ADY?

Appreciate your feedback,
RJelli :chef:

Just keep it in a sealed container in the fridge and you're good to go.  You really only feed the starter in the coming days right before you intend to use it in order to bring it back up to full health from its dormant state.

To answer your question about yeast, folks use yeast with starters from time to time in order to give theirs a boost of leavening power.  It's not unusual to see.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 07:43:17 PM by David Deas »

Offline randyjohnsonhve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 131
  • Location: Coeur D'Alene, Idaho
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 08:05:02 PM »

The breadtopia.com site clearly explains how easy it is to make a starter...It also explains how to maintain different age starters...

I will start a starter tonite and see the magic that everyone is talking about...

As a general question, what percent of sourdough starter is being used in pizza dough...I understand it will also change the hydration rate (higher) when used...I use 11.7% Protein Flour and cook under a gas broiler, then finish at 550F Conv...One of those Nearlypolitan Pies...

Please Advise and Thanks,
RJelli
"Pizza Evolves...Our Best Pizza Ever is Not Today." It is 'what' is right, not 'who' is right that matters.

Offline rcbaughn

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 929
  • Age: 26
  • Location: Birmingham, AL
  • Love my pup and pizza!
    • My Facebook
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 08:41:54 PM »
It differs depending on how long you want the dough to ferment and rise, but the ones I have been making have been on the extreme high side of 40% flour weight since I want them to rise in about 5-6 hours. I still get great flavor with my starter though. I am using a 100% hydration by the way.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline Tory

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2012, 10:57:32 AM »
Actually, some time ago I bough this 'sourdough' flavor item from KAF. Interestingly enough, when you open the bag, you're almost knocked to the floor by the overwhelming smell of vinegar. To say it is strong smelling would be an understatement. Overpowering would be more accurate. Speaking with someone at KAF, they did confirm that vinegar is an ingredient in this product.

I tried this item a couple times in my sourdough bread, and as strong smelling as the dry ingredient is, it contributed NOTHING to the flavor of the bread I baked. I was rather disappointed.
I have been told that you can use citric acid to help enhance your sourdough flavor. Have you ever tried that?

Vinegar just doesn't seem to do it. :(  Good luck though if you decide to try the vinegar.


Offline randyjohnsonhve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 131
  • Location: Coeur D'Alene, Idaho
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2012, 11:53:53 AM »

Unaware of the citric acid...Anyone out their understand or try that process?

RJelli :chef:
"Pizza Evolves...Our Best Pizza Ever is Not Today." It is 'what' is right, not 'who' is right that matters.


Offline dwighttsharpe

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2012, 12:48:59 PM »
Unaware of the citric acid...Anyone out their understand or try that process?

RJelli :chef:


No "process" really. Except that of a seasoning. In this case, citric acid is just used as a sour seasoning It is sometimes called "sour salt".

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/sour-salt-citric-acid
Dwight

Offline Tory

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 02:02:40 PM »
Actually, I've heard of the citric acid, aka sour salt. I've also been told I can use pineapple juice.

Offline Meatballs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 196
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 05:07:28 PM »
I use Chinese Black Vinegar in my English Muffins and its awesome.  Rather than White Vinegar, why not try something more flavorful like unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar?  You would not believe how much the Chinese Black Vinegar complicates the flavor of the lowly English Muffin, much like Thomas's English Muffins.  Even darkens the color like Thomas's.

Ron

Offline dmcavanagh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1912
  • Location: Glenmont, NY
Re: Has anyone tried to fake SD with Vinegar?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 05:10:42 PM »
I often use some pickle brine as part of the liquid in rye bread. I don't know that I'd say it makes it taste like soudough, but it definitely tastes good. :chef:


 

pizzapan