Author Topic: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice  (Read 14651 times)

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Offline norma427

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Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« on: October 18, 2011, 05:49:00 AM »
The beauty of Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough is that she went about creating it from a bread baker's perspective stemming from her beginnings at L.A.'s La Brea Bakery. Her goal for the pizzas at Mozza was to create a dough with an open hole structure, where the just baked crust was full of big, irregular air pockets, giving it an airy cornice (or outer rim). For The Mozza Cookbook, Silverton tweaked her dough recipe used in the pizzeria for home cooks (those of us who don't have the luxury of a high heat wood-fired pizza oven).
If you want to read more, the article was on slice.seriouseat.com posted by Caroling Russock at http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/10/nancy-silvertons-pizza-dough-recipe.html
Adapted from The Mozza Cookbook by Nancy Silverton with Matt Molina and Carolynn Carreńo. Copyright © 2011.

INGREDIENTS serves enough dough for 6 single serving (12 inch) pizzas, active time 1 hour, total time 4 hours

22 ounces warm tap water (2 cups, 6 ounces)
1/2 ounce (1 tablespoon) compressed yeast or 1 teaspoon active dry yeast
26 ounces unbleached bread flour, plus more as needed
1/2 ounce (1 tablespoon) dark rye flour or medium rye flour
1 1/2 teaspoons wheat germ
1 1/2 teaspoons barley malt or mild-flavored honey, such as clover or wildflower
1/2 ounce (1 tablespoon) kosher salt
Olive oil, grapeseed oil, or another neutral flavored oil, such as canola oil, for greasing the bowl

There also are the procedures on Slice from the link above.

I wonder how the above recipe would turn out.  8) It seems like a high hydration dough.  Might give it a try, since I already have wheat germ.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 05:55:47 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2011, 11:34:05 AM »
I would like to make one dough ball out of the recipe above for this coming week to try at market, but I am having problems trying to figure out the amount of ingredients to use in baker’s percent and knowing what TF to use to be able to use the expanded dough calculation tool here on the forum.  I do have dry malt I can try in the recipe or honey.  If anyone can help me figure out what to use for a single dough ball, I will try out the recipe.  I would like to try a 14” pizza, but a 12” pizza would be okay.  Can I just divide everything by 6 for a 12“ pizza and just go from there?

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2011, 06:04:44 PM »
Norma,

What kind of yeast do you want to use? It would be easier and faster to do the conversions if you use honey instead of dry malt powder, but if you are in no hurry I think I can use dry malt powder instead of honey although that might change the values of the other ingredients. It's up to you.

Peter

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2011, 06:30:14 PM »
Norma, Do yourself a favor and use parchment paper for baking.
Don

Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2011, 07:08:14 PM »
Norma,

What kind of yeast do you want to use? It would be easier and faster to do the conversions if you use honey instead of dry malt powder, but if you are in no hurry I think I can use dry malt powder instead of honey although that might change the values of the other ingredients. It's up to you.

Peter

Peter,

I would like to use ADY, and honey is okay with me.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2011, 07:09:12 PM »
Norma, Do yourself a favor and use parchment paper for baking.
Don

Don,

Thanks for the tip!  :)  I do have parchment paper at market if I need it.

Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2011, 07:14:09 PM »
Norma, Yea I read the procedure list on the recipe and thought, "Yea right, keep pushing semolina flour under the crust if it sticks to the peel" Been there. Save yourself the brain damage, use parchment paper.


Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 07:18:08 PM »
Norma, Yea I read the procedure list on the recipe and thought, "Yea right, keep pushing semolina flour under the crust if it sticks to the peel" Been there. Save yourself the brain damage, use parchment paper.



Don,

Thanks again for the tip.  :) I have also been there with high hydration doughs, but wanted to give this recipe a try since it has wheat germ and honey or malt in the dough.  I might be a sucker for punishment.   :-D

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM »
Norma,

Doing some conversions and using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I have set forth below two Nancy Silverton dough formulations, one for the recipe as posted and one for a single 12” pizza. For the wheat germ, I used the numbers for the Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ (the recipe is silent as to whether the wheat germ should be raw or toasted but I assume either should work). Since the expanded dough calculating tool does not have a wheat germ entry, I used the soy flour entry as a proxy and replaced the volume measurements for the soy flour with the volume measurements for the wheat germ.

You will note that the dough formulation for the entire recipe produces a dough batch weighing 49.62 ounces. That is for six 12” pizzas. The dough ball weight for a single dough ball for a single 12” pizza is 8.27 ounces. The thickness factor in that case is 0.07312.

Nancy Silverton Dough Formulation for Entire Recipe
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ* (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
737.1 g  |  26 oz | 1.62 lbs
623.7 g  |  22 oz | 1.37 lbs
3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.95 tsp | 0.98 tbsp
10.49 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 6.15 tsp | 2.05 tbsp
3.2 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs l 1.5 tsp l 0.5 tbsp
1406.62 g | 49.62 oz | 3.1 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: Dough is for six 12” pizzas; no bowl residue compensation

Nancy Silverton Dough Formulation for a Single 12” Pizza
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
122.85 g  |  4.33 oz | 0.27 lbs
103.95 g  |  3.67 oz | 0.23 lbs
0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
1.75 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
0.53 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.083 tbsp
234.44 g | 8.27 oz | 0.52 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: No bowl residue compensation

Peter

Edit (2/3/11): Corrected math error in the 12" version of the recipe and the single dough ball weight
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 06:34:37 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 09:24:03 PM »
Norma,

Doing some conversions and using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I have set forth below two Nancy Silverton dough formulations, one for the recipe as posted and one for a single 12” pizza. For the wheat germ, I used the numbers for the Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ (the recipe is silent as to whether the wheat germ should be raw or toasted but I assume either should work). Since the expanded dough calculating tool does not have a wheat germ entry, I used the soy flour entry as a proxy and replaced the volume measurements for the soy flour with the volume measurements for the wheat germ.

You will note that the dough formulation for the entire recipe produces a dough batch weighing 49.62 ounces. That is for six 12” pizzas. The dough ball weight for a single dough ball for a single 12” pizza is 8.63 ounces. The thickness factor in that case is 0.07312.

Nancy Silverton Dough Formulation for Entire Recipe
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ* (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
737.1 g  |  26 oz | 1.62 lbs
623.7 g  |  22 oz | 1.37 lbs
3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.95 tsp | 0.98 tbsp
10.49 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 6.15 tsp | 2.05 tbsp
3.2 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs l 1 1.5 tsp l 0.5 tbsp
1406.62 g | 49.62 oz | 3.1 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: Dough is for six 12” pizzas; no bowl residue compensation

Nancy Silverton Dough Formulation for a Single 12” Pizza
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ* (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
128.16 g  |  4.52 oz | 0.28 lbs
108.44 g  |  3.83 oz | 0.24 lbs
0.66 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.46 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.51 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
1.82 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.26 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
2.46 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs l 0.26 tsp l 0.087 tbsp
244.57 g | 8.63 oz | 0.54 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: No bowl residue compensation

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for doing the conversions and setting-forth a formula for the entire Nancy Silverton’s recipe and also for a 12” pie.  I will try this pizza for Tuesday.  That hydration is going to be a killer.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 10:05:13 PM »
That hydration is going to be a killer.

Norma,

Technically, the hydration value will be a bit less than 84.62% because the rye flour and wheat germ also absorb part of the water, at a rate greater than the unbleached bread flour. I don't know if the new Hydration Tool that November came up with (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16078.msg157471.html#new) is intended or capable of working with rye flour and wheat germ but, if so, I estimate that the actual hydration is around 82%. Adding back the water in the honey may result in an effective hydration of about 82.3%. I hope that makes you feel a little bit better--about 2.3% worth.

Peter

Offline briterian

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 10:11:30 PM »
Can't wait to try this too. I like that it is same day dough non-fridge.   Do you think it's ok to bake at 675 in my p44?

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 10:33:54 PM »
Norma,

Technically, the hydration value will be a bit less than 84.62% because the rye flour and wheat germ also absorb part of the water, at a rate greater than the unbleached bread flour. I don't know if the new Hydration Tool that November came up with (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16078.msg157471.html#new) is intended or capable of working with rye flour and wheat germ but, if so, I estimate that the actual hydration is around 82%. Adding back the water in the honey may result in an effective hydration of about 82.3%. I hope that makes you feel a little bit better--about 2.3% worth.

Peter

Peter,

I thought the rye flour and wheat germ would bring the hydration down some, but if the actual hydration is about 82% that is still a lot. 2.3% lower is not a lot.  I don’t understand if November’s new Hydration Tool can do the calculations for what I wanted to know.  I just learned how to use Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator recently. :)  I guess I have another new calculator to learn.  I appreciate that November did add the Hydration Tool. 

This should be an interesting dough and final pizza.

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 08:30:19 AM »
I was looking over the formula this morning for Nancy Silverton 12” single pizza, and then looked at the procedure that is supposed to be followed at http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/10/nancy-silvertons-pizza-dough-recipe.html  The procedure calls for making a sponge out of part of the water, all the yeast, part of the bread flour, all of the rye flour, and all of the wheat germ.  I don’t know how I am going to be able to calculate how to know how much of the total water or total bread flour to add to make the sponge.  Maybe I just should make the formula as stated and forget about the sponge.

Norma
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Offline briterian

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 08:40:48 AM »
My family tried this last night. I made 6 pizzas and used my bakers pride oven heated at 675 and also at 550.  
The first pizza cooked in the 675 burned and stuck to the stone.  Major PITA.
I then reduced both ovens to around 550 and things got a bit better.  My wife said they were OK but they were kinda 'doughy' inside.   I even had 2-3 of the others stick to the stones.  Not fun to have to scrap them from the stone to get them out.

I probably won't try this recipe again. I think she adapted it some for home use (non-WFO) but not enough.   It's just too highly hydrated IMHO.

I did do one pizza that we all loved. I oven roasted brussel sprouts -coarsely chopped - and made an olive oil base, roasted brussel sprouts, crumbled bacon and smoked blue cheese.  It's a keeper.

Let me know if anyone else has success with this dough.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 10:36:32 AM by briterian »

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2011, 08:57:26 AM »
My family tried this last night. I made 6 pizzas and used my bakers pride oven heated at 675 and also at 550. 
The first pizza cooked in the 675 burned and stuck to the stone.  Major PITA.
I then reduced both ovens to around 550 and things got a bit better.  My wife said they were OK but they were kinda 'doughy' inside.   I even had 2-3 of the others stick to the stones.  Not fun to have to scrap them the stone to get them out.

I probably won't try this recipe again. I think she adapted it some for home use (non-WFO) but not enough.   It's just too highly hydrated IMHO.

I did do one pizza that we all loved. I oven roasted brussel sprouts -coarsely chopped - and made an olive oil base, roasted brussel sprouts, crumbled bacon and smoked blue cheese.  It's a keeper.

Let me know if anyone else has success with this dough.


Brian,

Sorry to hear you had problems with this formula. Your choice of toppings for the one pizza you and your family liked sound great to me.  :) I have wanted to try brussel sprouts on a pie at market, but Steve is really fussy about what kind of vegetables I add as toppings. I have threatened to use brussel sprouts many weeks, but he says yuck!  I hope Steve doesn’t read this post. :-D I would try any kind of vegetables on a pie because I do like all vegetables.  Steve even doesn't like fresh cut tomatoes on pies. I know what a pain it is to have problems with pizzas on the stone.  Nancy is first a bread maker, so she probably uses techniques such as stretch and folds to make the dough behave better.  The formula is really a high hydration dough, and I have my reservations on how my pizza will turn out.  I just thought I wanted to try it because it was different. 

Norma
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Offline pabsey

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2011, 09:58:19 AM »
I used this recipe last night and got rave reviews from the bunch, using my woodfired oven! well worth a try. I did reduce the hydration and did a two day cold ferment. The rye gave it a nice crunch and very subtle sourness..
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 10:04:54 AM by pabsey »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2011, 10:36:25 AM »
Norma,

I didn't think to look at the instructions before doing the conversions. However, apart from the fact that added flour can be used during mixing and kneading the dough, what I posted is correct but for breaking it down into the three pieces: Total Dough Formulation, Sponge, and Final Mix. Unfortunately, we do not have any tools on the forum to do this. Everything has to be done by calculator and pencil and paper, all of which is tedious and time consuming. Procedurally, it is like what I did for you with the preferment Lehmann dough formulation that you are using at market and also for the Brian Spangler's dough formulation at Reply 95 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg124161.html#msg124161. What complicates matters in this case is the conversion to a single dough ball, especially the Final Mix part where I suspect that a lot of the numbers are small and where you may need to use mini-measuring spoons. I wish I could help you on this but I am now in the middle of some projects at home that will occupy a lot of my time over the next few days and then I will be heading out of town for several more days. Maybe another member can help you in the meantime. You could try proceeding as you mentioned but I don't know what results you will get.

Peter

Offline briterian

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2011, 11:04:02 AM »
Hi pabsey,
Any idea how much you reduced the hydration?   How long did you bake it at what temp?  I might try again with caputo and not primo guisto bromated flour.

Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2011, 11:04:49 AM »
Norma,

I didn't think to look at the instructions before doing the conversions. However, apart from the fact that added flour can be used during mixing and kneading the dough, what I posted is correct but for breaking it down into the three pieces: Total Dough Formulation, Sponge, and Final Mix. Unfortunately, we do not have any tools on the forum to do this. Everything has to be done by calculator and pencil and paper, all of which is tedious and time consuming. Procedurally, it is like what I did for you with the preferment Lehmann dough formulation that you are using at market and also for the Brian Spangler's dough formulation at Reply 95 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg124161.html#msg124161. What complicates matters in this case is the conversion to a single dough ball, especially the Final Mix part where I suspect that a lot of the numbers are small and where you may need to use mini-measuring spoons. I wish I could help you on this but I am now in the middle of some projects at home that will occupy a lot of my time over the next few days and then I will be heading out of town for several more days. Maybe another member can help you in the meantime. You could try proceeding as you mentioned but I don't know what results you will get.

Peter

Peter,

I briefly looked over the procedure for making this dough, but didn’t think about it would be a three part procedure.  I should have thought about that when it said make a sponge, but didn’t.  After I read about it more this morning, I knew it would be a three part procedure and for one dough ball would be difficult to figure out.  I now know that it would be like figuring out the preferment Lehmann dough.  Someone that might want to make the 6 dough balls shouldn’t have any problems, since you broke down the recipe into baker percents.  Hope you have a nice few days away.  I might just try making the formula for one dough ball in a straight mix.  It might not turn out, but that is okay.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 11:06:26 AM by norma427 »
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