Author Topic: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice  (Read 14358 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2011, 11:18:34 AM »
The Nancy Silverton Dough worked out well yesterday.  There one thing I didn’t understand from the experiment I did yesterday, compared to the experiment I did this week.  This week there wasn’t as much rye flavor in the crust as last week.  I don’t know why that happened, when all I changed was flours in the formula.  I used Better for Bread flour last week, and Mondako flour this week.  I wouldn’t have thought the flour brand would have made a difference in tasting the rye in Nancy Silverton Dough.  The Nancy Silverton Dough was easy to open and slid off the peel well.  The taste of the crumb was good and different.

Thanks, Peter for figuring out a formula to try for one dough ball!  :)

Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2011, 11:19:18 AM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2011, 11:20:09 AM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2011, 11:20:56 AM »
Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2011, 06:48:46 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below the complete Nancy Silverton recipe and method (Total Dough Formulation, Preferment and Final Mix), both for the entire recipe and for a single 12” pizza. You can safely ignore the odd-value baker’s percents for the Preferments and the Final Mixes. Those are for me, or anyone else, to be able to recreate what I did or to use in the future for other versions or quantities.

Nancy Silverton Total Dough Formulation for Entire Recipe
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ* (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
737.1 g  |  26 oz | 1.63 lbs
623.7 g  |  22 oz | 1.38 lbs
3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.54 tsp | 0.85 tbsp (for Morton's Kosher salt, use about 3 tsp)
10.49 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 6.15 tsp | 2.05 tbsp
3.2 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.6 tsp | 0.53 tbsp
1406.62 g | 49.62 oz | 3.1 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: Dough is for six 12” pizzas; no bowl residue compensation

Preferment (Entire Recipe)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (115.385%):
ADY (1.02564%):
Rye Flour (3.8475%):
Wheat Germ (0.86827%):
Total (221.12641%):
368.55 g  |  13 oz | 0.81 lbs
425.25 g  |  15 oz | 0.94 lbs
3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 6.15 tsp | 2.05 tbsp
3.2 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
814.96 g | 28.75 oz | 1.8 lbs | TF = N/A

Final Mix (Entire Recipe)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (53.8462%):
Salt (3.8441%):
Honey (2.84629%):
Total (160.53659%):
368.56 g  |  13 oz | 0.81 lbs
198.45 g  |  7 oz | 0.44 lbs
14.17 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.54 tsp | 0.85 tbsp (for Morton's Kosher salt, use about 3 tsp)
10.49 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
591.67 g | 20.87 oz | 1.3 lbs | TF = N/A

Nancy Silverton Total Dough Formulation for a Single 12” Pizza
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ* (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
122.85 g  |  4.33 oz | 0.27 lbs
103.95 g  |  3.67 oz | 0.23 lbs
0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp (for Morton's Kosher salt, use about 1/2 tsp)
1.75 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
0.53 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.083 tbsp
234.44 g | 8.27 oz | 0.52 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: No bowl residue compensation
 
Preferment (12”)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (115.385%):
ADY (1.02564%):
Rye Flour (3.8475%):
Wheat Germ (0.86827%):
Total (221.12641%):
61.42 g  |  2.17 oz | 0.14 lbs
70.88 g  |  2.5 oz | 0.16 lbs
0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.03 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
0.53 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.083 tbsp
135.83 g | 4.79 oz | 0.3 lbs | TF = N/A

Final Mix (12”)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (53.8462%):
Salt (3.8441%):
Honey (2.84629%):
Total (160.53659%):
61.43 g  |  2.17 oz | 0.14 lbs
33.08 g  |  1.17 oz | 0.07 lbs
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp (for Morton's Kosher salt, use about 1/2 tsp)
1.75 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
98.61 g | 3.48 oz | 0.22 lbs | TF = N/A

Peter
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 08:18:28 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2011, 08:18:24 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below the complete Nancy Silverton recipe and method (Total Dough Formulation, Preferment and Final Mix), both for the entire recipe and for a single 12” pizza. You can safely ignore the odd-value baker’s percents for the Preferments and the Final Mixes. Those are for me, or anyone else, to be able to recreate what I did or to use in the future for other versions or quantities.

Nancy Silverton Total Dough Formulation for Entire Recipe
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ* (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
737.1 g  |  26 oz | 1.63 lbs
623.7 g  |  22 oz | 1.38 lbs
3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.54 tsp | 0.85 tbsp
10.49 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 6.15 tsp | 2.05 tbsp
3.2 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.6 tsp | 0.53 tbsp
1406.62 g | 49.62 oz | 3.1 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: Dough is for six 12” pizzas; no bowl residue compensation

Preferment (Entire Recipe)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (115.385%):
ADY (1.02564%):
Rye Flour (3.8475%):
Wheat Germ (0.86827%):
Total (221.12641%):
368.55 g  |  13 oz | 0.81 lbs
425.25 g  |  15 oz | 0.94 lbs
3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
14.18 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 6.15 tsp | 2.05 tbsp
3.2 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
814.96 g | 28.75 oz | 1.8 lbs | TF = N/A

Final Mix (Entire Recipe)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (53.8462%):
Salt (3.8441%):
Honey (2.84629%):
Total (160.53659%):
368.56 g  |  13 oz | 0.81 lbs
198.45 g  |  7 oz | 0.44 lbs
14.17 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.54 tsp | 0.85 tbsp
10.49 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
591.67 g | 20.87 oz | 1.3 lbs | TF = N/A

Nancy Silverton Total Dough Formulation for a Single 12” Pizza
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (84.6154%):
ADY (0.51282%):
Salt (1.9231%):
Honey (1.42308%):
Rye Flour (1.92308%):
Wheat Germ* (0.43413%):
Total (190.83161%):
122.85 g  |  4.33 oz | 0.27 lbs
103.95 g  |  3.67 oz | 0.23 lbs
0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
1.75 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
0.53 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.083 tbsp
234.44 g | 8.27 oz | 0.52 lbs | TF = N/A
*Bob’s Red Mill raw wheat germ
Note: No bowl residue compensation
 
Preferment (12”)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (115.385%):
ADY (1.02564%):
Rye Flour (3.8475%):
Wheat Germ (0.86827%):
Total (221.12641%):
61.42 g  |  2.17 oz | 0.14 lbs
70.88 g  |  2.5 oz | 0.16 lbs
0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.03 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
0.53 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.083 tbsp
135.83 g | 4.79 oz | 0.3 lbs | TF = N/A

Final Mix (12”)
Unbleached Bread Flour (100%):
Water (53.8462%):
Salt (3.8441%):
Honey (2.84629%):
Total (160.53659%):
61.43 g  |  2.17 oz | 0.14 lbs
33.08 g  |  1.17 oz | 0.07 lbs
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
1.75 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
98.61 g | 3.48 oz | 0.22 lbs | TF = N/A

Peter




Wow Peter, thanks for doing all the work so anyone that wants to try Nancy Silverton’s Dough can now do it with precision with baker percents.  ;D I know I appreciate you doing all the calculations for me to try a 12” Nancy Silverton’s Dough pizza.  How long did those calculations take you to do?  I am glad you are mathematically inclined!

I have one question since I don’t really understand how a sponge is supposed to look when it is incorporated into the final dough.  I think I read that a sponge needs to look something like it falling before it is used. 

I have read different posts on the forum about sponges, being one at Reply 322 to Mike http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg87368.html#msg87368
Since the procedure listed under Nancy Silverton’s dough says the sponge should be ready in 1 ½ hrs., that doesn’t have to be strictly followed does it?   Shouldn’t the sponge employ minimal yeast to be allowed to ferment overnight to generate more acidity, which should improve the crust flavor as you stated in that post?  I also saw Toby’s (Infoodel) post about when he thought a sponge should be ready at Reply 19 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10024.msg87622.html#msg87622

You also answered me at Reply 167 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11578.msg107558.html#msg107558  about Marco said he had starters of two different consistencies, one for making pizza and one for bread.  Would the sponge posted in your formula be like one for making bread, since Nancy Silverton was a bread baker first?

I also just read you post to Giotto, about using a sponge or a biga at Reply 61 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,389.msg4315.html#msg4315
 
You also answered me in why the Alice Waters preferment (more like a biga than a sponge) might have helped that formula turned out well for me at Reply http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13321.msg131842.html#msg131842

I see where you posted that you did use a sponge for JerryMac’s basic recipe using Tom’s sponge method at Reply 28 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg62814.html#msg62814
That pizza you made looked very good with a nice crumb structure.  :)

You posted to Andrea at Reply 3 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5741.msg48802.html#msg48802
That a sponge is good for sweet breads. 

I am very interested in trying a sponge dough, since I never really made a sponge dough intentionally.  At least it will give me more knowledge about how to use a sponge. 

One other question.  What bread flour do you think I should use in the first experiment for Nancy’s Pizza Dough?

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2011, 09:30:08 PM »
Norma,

You will note that I amended my posts with the Silverton dough formulations to indicate what amounts of Morton's Kosher salt to use in lieu of table salt. After I had posted the formulations, I noted that Ms. Silverton's recipe calls for Kosher salt. She doesn't indicate whether it is Morton's or Diamond Crystal, so I just went with the Morton's.

Most of your questions on sponges will fall by the wayside once I tell you that what Ms. Silverton uses in her recipe is really a poolish rather than a sponge. Just as the term "biga" is used somewhat generically to refer to preferments that are not technically bigas, the same sort of thing frequently happens with the term "sponge". It is basically a semantics issue. If I am using someone else's recipe, I will often use the preferment terminology of the author of the recipe even if it is not technically correct in my opinion. If you want to read more on this subject, you should read, or re-read, the Didier Rosada articles at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm and at http://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm. All preferments have their origins in bread making but certain preferments work better for certain yeasted products than others. The Rosada articles discuss some of those applications.

I don't know whether November's new Hydration Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ is intended to calculate the absorption values of wheat germ (raw) and rye flour, but I decided to use it with data I found on the raw wheat germ and rye flour (medium) at the nutrition.self.com website. After adjusting for the absorption values of the wheat germ and rye flour in relation to the unbleached bread flour, I concluded that the ratio of the formula water to the sum of the unbleached bread flour, wheat germ and rye flour yielded a value of 1.06. A true poolish has a value of 1, representing equal weights of flour (or a flour blend in our case) and water. Where Ms. Silverton's poolish deviates from a classic poolish is that she uses a lot more yeast, in effect, to produce what one might call and "emergency" poolish. Considerably less yeast would be used if one wants to have the poolish pre-ferment overnight over a period of many hours.

Since you already know how a poolish is supposed to behave because of all of your work with the preferment Lehmann NY style dough, you should have no problem knowing when to use the Silverton poolish. The main difference is that the Silverton poolish will act a lot faster and expand a lot faster. So, you will look for the Silverton poolish to peak and then fall back upon itself.

On the matter of what bread flour to use, you might go with a standard unbleached, unbromated flour since Ms. Silverton is in California and perhaps uses an unbleached, unbromated bread flour.

It took me a few hours to put together the dough formulations I posted. It is brute force pencil and paper and calculator work and trying to find a way of using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html in ways for which it was not intended.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2011, 10:30:20 PM »
Norma,

You will note that I amended my posts with the Silverton dough formulations to indicate what amounts of Morton's Kosher salt to use in lieu of table salt. After I had posted the formulations, I noted that Ms. Silverton's recipe calls for Kosher salt. She doesn't indicate whether it is Morton's or Diamond Crystal, so I just went with the Morton's.

Most of your questions on sponges will fall by the wayside once I tell you that what Ms. Silverton uses in her recipe is really a poolish rather than a sponge. Just as the term "biga" is used somewhat generically to refer to preferments that are not technically bigas, the same sort of thing frequently happens with the term "sponge". It is basically a semantics issue. If I am using someone else's recipe, I will often use the preferment terminology of the author of the recipe even if it is not technically correct in my opinion. If you want to read more on this subject, you should read, or re-read, the Didier Rosada articles at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm and at http://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm. All preferments have their origins in bread making but certain preferments work better for certain yeasted products than others. The Rosada articles discuss some of those applications.

I don't know whether November's new Hydration Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ is intended to calculate the absorption values of wheat germ (raw) and rye flour, but I decided to use it with data I found on the raw wheat germ and rye flour (medium) at the nutrition.self.com website. After adjusting for the absorption values of the wheat germ and rye flour in relation to the unbleached bread flour, I concluded that the ratio of the formula water to the sum of the unbleached bread flour, wheat germ and rye flour yielded a value of 1.06. A true poolish has a value of 1, representing equal weights of flour (or a flour blend in our case) and water. Where Ms. Silverton's poolish deviates from a classic poolish is that she uses a lot more yeast, in effect, to produce what one might call and "emergency" poolish. Considerably less yeast would be used if one wants to have the poolish pre-ferment overnight over a period of many hours.

Since you already know how a poolish is supposed to behave because of all of your work with the preferment Lehmann NY style dough, you should have no problem knowing when to use the Silverton poolish. The main difference is that the Silverton poolish will act a lot faster and expand a lot faster. So, you will look for the Silverton poolish to peak and then fall back upon itself.

On the matter of what bread flour to use, you might go with a standard unbleached, unbromated flour since Ms. Silverton is in California and perhaps uses an unbleached, unbromated bread flour.

It took me a few hours to put together the dough formulations I posted. It is brute force pencil and paper and calculator work and trying to find a way of using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html in ways for which it was not intended.

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for amending your post for using Morton’s Kosher salt, for Nancy Silverton’s Pizza Dough.  I didn’t notice what kind of salt the recipe had called for. 

Lol, even Ms. Silverton doesn’t reference the right term on her recipe to use a sponge, when it should have been a poolish preferment.  At least you caught the mistake in doing the calculations.  I never would have caught that mistake.

I probably will try the formula you set-forth the way it is, but also might try a lower amount of yeast in future experiments in the preferment part.  If I don’t get enough rye taste in the first experiment (like my last attempt), I might add a mix of more rye in combination with the bread flour in the final dough.  Since the Mondako flour is bleached, I will search though my flours to see which one might be unbleached.  I still have the Better for Bread flour at home and might try that flour again, or look and see what other unbleached, unbromated flours I have at home.  I even forget which bread flours I have that are unbleached and unbromated.

Yes, I do know how a poolish is supposed to be when it is ready from the my work on the preferment Lehmann dough. 

Sorry, you had to go though the brute force with pencil and paper again, to be able to set-forth the formulas.

Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2011, 09:38:35 PM »
The preferment part of Nancy Silverton’s Pizza Dough was mixed this morning.  Since it is cool in my kitchen this time of year, the preferment took until late afternoon to look like it had bubbled enough.  The preferment was then incorporated into the final dough.  The Nancy Silverton’s Dough was really sticky. I did stretch and folds over a 2 ½  hr. time span. The dough was still sticky, so I added 10 grams of rye flour and kneaded it in by hand. The dough finally was okay, and could be formed into a dough ball.  The dough ball was also coated with dark rye flour.

Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2011, 09:41:22 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2011, 08:38:41 PM »
I think this was another one of my failed experiments.  My guess of why this experiment failed was because I added extra rye flour to the formula. Maybe the rye flour was responsible for lower rim rise and structure of the dough.  I don’t know from the day cold ferment if that caused acidification of the dough or not. I haven’t used rye flour in formulas before Nancy Silverton‘s Dough, so I have no idea what rye does in pizza dough.  I also don’t understand why Nancy Silverton Dough didn’t have any yeast added in the final dough.  The Nancy Silverton’s dough ball did rise, but wonder if that also caused some kind of issue with the crumb and texture of the pizza crust.  I let the Nancy Silverton’s Dough ball rise at room temperature yesterday. The dough was easy to open, but I could feel there wasn’t much bubbling in the dough, or enough structure in the dough.  The dough didn’t want to tear, but something was wrong.

I still don’t understand with the extra amount of rye that I used to control the stickiness in the dough, how the finished pizza still didn’t have any rye flavor in the crust.  The crust tasted bland to Steve, my taste testers and me. 

I don’t know if anything that Didier Rosada talked about in “How to Develop a Formula” in the relationship to the amount of rye I used in Nancy Silverton’s Dough formula had something to do with my results or not.  http://www.sfbi.com/pdfs/SFBINewsWI07.pdf

I don’t know if I will be able to figure out what wrong with this dough and final pizza.

Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2011, 08:40:25 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2011, 08:42:09 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2011, 08:42:59 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2011, 08:43:58 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2011, 08:45:02 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2011, 06:25:26 PM »
Peter,

I want to try the formula you set-forth again for this coming week to try to make a Nancy Silverton’s Dough, but wanted to know if you think I should change the bread flour to a high-gluten flour?  I just couldn’t get the dough straightened out the last time (was way to sticky without adding extra flour).  It keep being sticky even after stretch and folds and reballs.  Do you also think maybe I need to drop the hydration some, in the final mix of the formula you set-forth for a 12” pizza at Reply 44 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16033.msg158880.html#msg158880  I think, but don’t know, that my bad results were from adding the extra rye flour, or either the bread flour I used couldn’t work well with that high of hydration.  I am still thinking over what went wrong.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2011, 07:59:39 AM »
Norma,

It looks like you are a gluten for punishment on this one :-D.

If you substitute high-gluten flour for the bread flour in Nancy's recipe, that should help but you may still find it necessary to add more flour as part of the Final Mix. As you know, it is quite common in artisan type dough recipes that call for high hydration to make adjustments to achieve a manageable dough by using bench flour at the time of forming the final dough ball, often in copious amounts (and very often not accounted for in the original recipe). In either case, whether you use bread flour or high-gluten flour, that will change Nancy's recipe and also lower the baker's percents of all of the ingredients but for the flour. That doesn't mean that the dough won't be functional, it will just be different. It is like what John (fazzari) has been doing by lowering the hydration levels in some of Peter Reinhart's dough recipes. In your case, you could add more flour to the Preferment or the Final Mix. However, if you end up with more dough than the recipe is supposed to produce (8.27 ounces for a 12" pizza), you will have to trim off some of the final dough to 8.27 ounces. Alternatively, you can use the total (untrimmed) amount of dough to make a slightly larger size pizza. If you go that route, I can help you calculate what that size pizza should be (in case you want to calculate it, it's 2 times the square root of the final dough ball weight divided by 3.14159 and the square of the thickness factor for the 12" size).

Peter

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2011, 08:46:44 AM »
Norma,

It looks like you are a gluten for punishment on this one :-D.

If you substitute high-gluten flour for the bread flour in Nancy's recipe, that should help but you may still find it necessary to add more flour as part of the Final Mix. As you know, it is quite common in artisan type dough recipes that call for high hydration to make adjustments to achieve a manageable dough by using bench flour at the time of forming the final dough ball, often in copious amounts (and very often not accounted for in the original recipe). In either case, whether you use bread flour or high-gluten flour, that will change Nancy's recipe and also lower the baker's percents of all of the ingredients but for the flour. That doesn't mean that the dough won't be functional, it will just be different. It is like what John (fazzari) has been doing by lowering the hydration levels in some of Peter Reinhart's dough recipes. In your case, you could add more flour to the Preferment or the Final Mix. However, if you end up with more dough than the recipe is supposed to produce (8.27 ounces for a 12" pizza), you will have to trim off some of the final dough to 8.27 ounces. Alternatively, you can use the total (untrimmed) amount of dough to make a slightly larger size pizza. If you go that route, I can help you calculate what that size pizza should be (in case you want to calculate it, it's 2 times the square root of the final dough ball weight divided by 3.14159 and the square of the thickness factor for the 12" size).

Peter

Peter,

I sure don’t want be a gluten for punishment on Nancy Silverton’s Pizza Dough, but wanted to see if it was possible for the formulation to work.   :-D  At 84.6154% hydration, I don’t even know how someone uses that hydration for a normal pizza dough, without adding extra flour either in the mix or on the bench.  I did try to do all kinds of stretch and folds and also reballs with no luck.  I don’t know how anyone could use Nancy’s formula and be able to achieve a decent dough ball if you keep all the numbers the same.  I know John did decrease the hydration on some of the Reinhart doughs.  I will give the formula you set-forth another try, but will note what kind of flour I use, and also how much extra flour I had to use.  I sure am not good at doing the numbers to determine if I have a higher amount of dough (to calculate the size of the pizza), but will wait for help, if I can get a decent dough ball. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2011, 10:11:00 PM »
I finally did tame the beast!  ;D The Nancy Silverton’s Dough is soon ready to be balled and go for a cold ferment.  I used Power Flour in the formulation for this attempt.

Picture of preferment and pictures of dough during various stages.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


 

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