Author Topic: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice  (Read 13680 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2011, 11:11:06 AM »
Norma,

I have not tried Nancy Silverton's recipe but I have a few questions and some comments.

First, did you follow Ms. Silverton's recipe exactly as given? For example, I looked at the recipe as given at http://www.foodgal.com/2011/09/pure-pizza-dough-heaven-the-recipe-from-pizzeria-mozza/ and I calculated that once the dough is made as part of the final mix, it is subjected to several periods at room temperature. I calculated a total time of 155 minutes (45/45/5/60). You indicated that you let your dough warm up for the better part of the day that you made the dough. It is hard to say, but if your warmup time was excessive, there might have been more acids formed and a lower pH as a result, and you may have had reduced residual sugar levels, which can affect the oven spring, much as Professor Calvel discusses in his book The Taste of Bread (see the quote in Reply 136 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.msg86732/topicseen.html#msg86732).

Second, when I looked at the recipe as cited above, I counted 8 places where flour outside of the formula flour can be used, either in the mixer bowl, on the bench or on the hands or on the dough balls, from a fair amount (like a small handful) to dusting amounts. I also counted two places where semolina might be used, but as a release agent on the peel. If you avoided the use of flour or semolina, or only used small amounts, then your final dough could have had a hydration that perhaps was too high to get the desired results when baked, even in your deck oven at market. In my personal experience, very high hydration doughs do not bake up particularly well in my standard home electric oven. It is like trying to force the water out of a very damp kitchen sponge. If the water isn't forced out fast enough, quite possibly because the oven temperature is not high enough, you may well end up with a sub-par oven spring. It would be interesting to know how much all of the flour outside of the formula flour in Ms. Silverton's recipe lowers the stated formula hydration of about 84.6%. In this vein, did you follow Ms. Silverton's regimen for stretch and folds?

By any chance, did you have any leftover slices and, if so, how did they reheat? For example, were they soggy or limp after reheating? That is what I usually experience with reheating slices that are based on very high hydration values.

Peter


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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2011, 04:03:07 PM »
Norma,

I have not tried Nancy Silverton's recipe but I have a few questions and some comments.

First, did you follow Ms. Silverton's recipe exactly as given? For example, I looked at the recipe as given at http://www.foodgal.com/2011/09/pure-pizza-dough-heaven-the-recipe-from-pizzeria-mozza/ and I calculated that once the dough is made as part of the final mix, it is subjected to several periods at room temperature. I calculated a total time of 155 minutes (45/45/5/60). You indicated that you let your dough warm up for the better part of the day that you made the dough. It is hard to say, but if your warmup time was excessive, there might have been more acids formed and a lower pH as a result, and you may have had reduced residual sugar levels, which can affect the oven spring, much as Professor Calvel discusses in his book The Taste of Bread (see the quote in Reply 136 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.msg86732/topicseen.html#msg86732).

Second, when I looked at the recipe as cited above, I counted 8 places where flour outside of the formula flour can be used, either in the mixer bowl, on the bench or on the hands or on the dough balls, from a fair amount (like a small handful) to dusting amounts. I also counted two places where semolina might be used, but as a release agent on the peel. If you avoided the use of flour or semolina, or only used small amounts, then your final dough could have had a hydration that perhaps was too high to get the desired results when baked, even in your deck oven at market. In my personal experience, very high hydration doughs do not bake up particularly well in my standard home electric oven. It is like trying to force the water out of a very damp kitchen sponge. If the water isn't forced out fast enough, quite possibly because the oven temperature is not high enough, you may well end up with a sub-par oven spring. It would be interesting to know how much all of the flour outside of the formula flour in Ms. Silverton's recipe lowers the stated formula hydration of about 84.6%. In this vein, did you follow Ms. Silverton's regimen for stretch and folds?

By any chance, did you have any leftover slices and, if so, how did they reheat? For example, were they soggy or limp after reheating? That is what I usually experience with reheating slices that are based on very high hydration values.

Peter


Peter,

No, I didnít follow the Ms. Silvertonís recipe exactly as given.  I mixed the preferment one day and then the same day mixed the final dough and then let the dough ball cold ferment.  I know my timing was way off, but didnít know how I could mix the preferment and final dough the same day I was at market.  I let the dough ferment at room temperature at market to see if it help to ferment the dough more.  I do believe I probably left the dough ferment too long and with me not making the preferment and final dough on the same day.  By me not following the right protocol, I probably fouled everything up.

I also didnít use any extra flours anywhere, but to dust the dough ball and on the peel.  I did follow the Ms. Silvertonís regime of stretch and folds. 

I didnít even bother to take the extra slices home for a reheat, because I sure didnít think the pizza tasted very good. 

If I canít make the preferment and final dough in the amount of time that is stated, I really donít think I will be able to make this dough. 

Thanks you for the links and trying to help with this formulation.

Norma
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Offline bakerbill

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #82 on: December 05, 2011, 09:15:38 PM »
There has been some talk on this forum about Nancy Silverton's pizza recipe and the fact that it has been modified for the home oven. One commentator mentioned that it would be unlikely that Nancy would provide the actual recipe used in a brick oven. I suggest that members of this forum suggest and experiment with changes that would necessary for its use in a brick oven. My brick oven in New England is closed for the season but will open up again in spring when I share my own results.

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #83 on: December 05, 2011, 09:59:29 PM »
There has been some talk on this forum about Nancy Silverton's pizza recipe and the fact that it has been modified for the home oven. One commentator mentioned that it would be unlikely that Nancy would provide the actual recipe used in a brick oven. I suggest that members of this forum suggest and experiment with changes that would necessary for its use in a brick oven. My brick oven in New England is closed for the season but will open up again in spring when I share my own results.

bakerbill


baker bill,

I have been playing around with this dough, but havenít had the best results so far.  I plan on getting back to this formula or a modified one sometime in the future.  I just have to figure out all what I am doing wrong. 

Other members have had better results than I did.  Maybe you might want to post under Tin Roofís (tinroofrusted) thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16437.0.html  He seems to be having better results than I am.

Norma
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Offline stephent

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #84 on: December 08, 2011, 08:08:36 PM »
Tin Roof,
What are your thoughts about using cake yeast as Silverton suggests with your slow rise.  Also, I can't find barley malt.  Is the honey an acceptable substitute.

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2011, 08:13:38 PM »
Tin Roof,
What are your thoughts about using cake yeast as Silverton suggests with your slow rise.  Also, I can't find barley malt.  Is the honey an acceptable substitute.


stephent,

Maybe you might want to look at Tin Roof's thread and see the great pizza he posted about today.  He is more likely to read your post at the thread below.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16437.0.html

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2011, 09:45:18 PM »
stephent,

There are quite a few places online that sell barley malt, both liquid and dry. If I recall correctly, the Silverton recipe does not specify the form of the barley malt. But for the amount of it that is called for in the recipe, I think you can go with either form and not have to adjust the formula hydration to compensate for the water content of the liquid form if you choose to use that form.

Peter

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #87 on: December 16, 2011, 09:30:57 AM »
Since I havenít been really successful with the Nancy Silvertonís dough and pizza in this thread, I decided to try again, but this time use fresh yeast in the preferment and the final dough.  This time I used KABF and instead of using 61.39 grams of flour in the final mix I used 75 grams by adding it gradually until I thought the dough might be more manageable.  I also changed the honey to dry malt, but used the same amount.  The dough was still sticky, but  could be managed it better.  I also added 5 grams of dried red and green peppers after the dough was mixed. 

The preferment fermented for 12 hrs. at room temperature.  The final dough is also going to ferment at room temperature. 

Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #88 on: December 16, 2011, 09:31:54 AM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #89 on: December 16, 2011, 07:20:08 PM »
I submitted this pizza in this months challenge, because I had added dried peppers to the dough.  I posted this same thing at this months challenge, but I will post it here again. The dressings for this Nancy Silvertonís ďpepper doughĒ pizza were roasted butternut squash that was roasted with olive oil, pepper, and sea salt.  The regular peppers were roasted with olive oil and a little bit of sea salt.  Fresh smoked mozzarella grated was blended into the butternut squash with a stick blender.  I sliced strips of smoked mozzarella and grated Fontina cheese.  A few dried peppers were rehydrated to be added as an extra dressing, to go with the peppers in the dough.

I donít know if it was the combination of peppers in the dough with the other peppers, or the butternut squash with smoked mozzarella, or the room temperature dough fermented with fresh yeast, but I thought this pizza really tasted great.  This pizza was baked in my home oven on the stone.  At least I am getting somewhere with the preferment Nancy Silvertonís recipe, not like my last few failures. This pizza isnít exactly like I wanted it, but was an improvement. The dough was still manageable with the dried peppers in the dough and it was easy to stretch out the skin.  The dough was punched down one time today, because I thought it was fermenting to fast, and then balled again to ferment more.

Thanks Peter for figuring out the formulation for a 12Ē pizza!

Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #90 on: December 16, 2011, 07:21:13 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2011, 07:22:11 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2011, 07:23:18 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #93 on: December 16, 2011, 07:24:22 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #94 on: December 16, 2011, 07:25:25 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #95 on: December 16, 2011, 07:26:26 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #96 on: December 16, 2011, 07:28:01 PM »
Norma
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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #97 on: December 16, 2011, 07:34:32 PM »
Wow! That crumb looks fabulous.  Nice job, Norma.  I think the reduction in moisture really doesn't hurt a bit.  Still a really beautiful crumb and great spring.  Maybe the cake yeast helps a bit too, who knows? 

You probably have been reading fazzari's experiment with bulk fermentation and reballing.  I gather from that thread that reballing is a lot more important than most people realize.  I am going to try doing that more often in the future. 

Regards,

TinRoof

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2011, 07:35:39 PM »
wow!  GREAT job norma!!! 

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Re: Cook the Book: Nancy Silverton's Pizza Dough on Slice
« Reply #99 on: December 16, 2011, 07:44:05 PM »
Wow! That crumb looks fabulous.  Nice job, Norma.  I think the reduction in moisture really doesn't hurt a bit.  Still a really beautiful crumb and great spring.  Maybe the cake yeast helps a bit too, who knows? 

You probably have been reading fazzari's experiment with bulk fermentation and reballing.  I gather from that thread that reballing is a lot more important than most people realize.  I am going to try doing that more often in the future. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Tin Roof,

Thanks for your kind works!  :) I donít think the reduction in hydration hurts either.  The dough was still sticky.  I like cake yeast, but usually canít find it in our area.  This cake yeast was even frozen. 

I have been reading Johnís (fazzari) thread about bulk fermentation and reballing.  I havenít tried out experiments like John is now, but in Reinhart doughs I usually reball to get decent results. 

My home oven only get a little over 500 degrees F.  I would have like to try this dough in a hotter oven.

Norma
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