Author Topic: Crisco Deep Dish (Read 7542 times)

lilbuddypizza · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2006, 02:13:07 PM »

CanadianBacon:
I can understand what you are saying. Maybe the arrow wasn't exact enough. I've attached another detailed pic with the area in question slightly darker. The tip of the arrows should be pointing at where I think the uncooked crust is.
Of course, as you've said, the original poster can clear this up, but I am convinced that I am right in theory.
1) In order to be a stuffed, it need either to be completely covered in a layer of dough/crust OR the filling/ingredients need to be covered with dough and then sauce on top of that.
2) The manner of ingredients that surround this layer make it impossible to be browned. No matter how long you cook it, the dough is surrounded by moisture, with nothing to draw it out. It has sauce on top, and the "stuffing" beneath. Therefore, this causes it to steam cook in a way. Cook a Pilsbury biscuit in the microwave, and you'll see what I mean. Believe me, I have searched for various solutions to my "dilemma" with the uncooked dough and short of placing a heated stone directly on top of the pan, there is no good way to overcome this without burning the top sauce. Or, like I said previously, make it at home and put the sauce on last.

buzz · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2006, 02:21:12 PM »

Or don't use a top layer at all!

canadianbacon · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2006, 03:03:55 PM »

Hi there lilbuddypizza

Well, I believe I owe you an apology,

I believe I totally misunderstood the nature of this pizza.

From what I'm now understanding, there are not one but **TWO ** ? doughs in that pie ?

I was only looking at the images, and did not see a second dough added in there, but after re-reading
that, it seems there are, in fact that is what the member made....

Can you or somebody explain what actually went into the pizza ? ... I only see one later of dough going into that
pan....

but from I now understand, there are 2.... the first layer, then the member added a second layer directly on top of that ?
( if so, why would this be ? ) - I don't understand the concept.

So in other words, the pan got a layer of dough - like you would do with a pie shell for an apple pie.
then another sheet of dough would be put over the original one ?

is that about it ?

anyway, and yes, you are totally right about the dough not being able to dry out if it has moisture on both sides
of it - very well explained by the way.

I will now listen for answers

I'm brewing today by the way, ....a nice winter wheat.

you may see images here taken so far today

http://www.detroitgrillking.com/frosty/beerbrew/

I haven't finished my brew day yet, - right now I'm in the boiling stage of the brew.

Mark in Canada

gottabedapan · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2006, 10:12:50 PM »

Canadianbacon,

A stuffed pizza consists of five (or six) layers. Building from the bottom up:

1) the bottom crust;

2) a layer of cheese (sliced);

3) toppings;

4) a second crust;

5) sauce.

Some people put a second layer of cheese between the second crust and the sauce.

The bottom crust is pulled up the sides of the pan and second crust is crimped to it.

lilbuddypizza · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2006, 08:30:04 AM »

There's a thread on here somewhere about how the stuffed originated from something called (I think) Easter Pie.
If any Chicagoans will remember in the very early 70's , about 80-90% of the pizza joints that made stuffed(and there weren't many), made this type of stuffed pizza. It was totally enclosed. Most had no sauce on top at all. (I think S'Barro make one that LOOKS like this.)Some had just a THIN layer of sauce on top, that ended up as a "skin" on the crust. Then, around '74, Giordano's appeared on 63rd and California and eventually replaced this "Easter Pie" type with what we know today. Pizza Castle on West 55th Street makes a stuffed similar to the old type.
It's all good!!!!!

chiguy · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:44:15 AM »

Hi Libuddypizza,
I grew up down the street from Palermos off 63rd st, so i ate at that Giordanos many times. I do remember when they use to offer both kinds, a deep pan/dish and the covered stuffed. It must have been some time before 1983. You are also correct about Sbarros, i remember having a covered stuffed there as well.

Where is Pizza Castle located on West 55th st.??
Chiguy

itsinthesauce · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2006, 01:42:40 PM »

I used to live around 63rd and Melvina

chiguy · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2006, 01:49:19 PM »

Hey itsinthe sauce,
I love that Waynemoy chop suey, or Vinces pizza, man they were always arguing in the kitchen there. Chiguy

itsinthesauce · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2006, 01:53:14 PM »

I used to work at Vinces....got some good stories!

chiguy · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2006, 02:01:52 PM »

Hey itsinthesauce,
Wow small world, i bet you got some great stories. My parents had to move seats so us kids would not hear all the cursing. How long did you last there? Do you remember thier recipe? It is pretty average i think, but consistenly good. Chiguy

canadianbacon · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2006, 02:14:17 PM »

are all deep dish pizzas *stuffed* pizzas ?

If so I was not aware of this.

I just went back to the beginning of this thread, and only see talking about "deep dish" so how
did most of you know there was a second hidden later of dough in this pizza ?

I think I need a bit of help here on this one, - perhaps I'm not understanding something.

I always thought a deep dish pizza was just a pizza made in a deep dish, and nothing else different.

you put your dough down, load up with toppings, and into the oven.

Anyone care to give a free classroom lesson for me ?

itsinthesauce · « **Reply #31 on:** February 10, 2006, 02:22:01 PM »

Pretty much APF...no tricks, let it rise at room temp, sauce was simply puree with a half can of water, some oregano, garlic, etc. The arguing was part of the atmosphere. I worked there for about a year, but recently ran into the youngest son Vince, who got his hand cut off in the meat grinder when he was about three. He used to punch everbody in the stomach with his stub. His two brothers, Mike and John are running it now. They still serve a great pizza with no skimping on the toppings. My daughter lives down the street and she orders it now and then. When I worked there, it was located a half block West in about 1200 square feet. They've come a long way.

gottabedapan · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2006, 09:37:47 PM »

Quote from: chiguy on February 10, 2006, 11:44:15 AM

Hi Libuddypizza,
I grew up down the street from Palermos off 63rd st, so i ate at that Giordanos many times. I do remember when they use to offer both kinds, a deep pan/dish and the covered stuffed. It must have been some time before 1983. You are also correct about Sbarros, i remember having a covered stuffed there as well.

Had to be pre-1982, 'cuz I was supervising a construction project in India in spring of '82 and a guy on the crew from Fox River Grove was raving about Gino's East and Giordanos, and how you hadn't lived until you'd eaten one of their deep dish pies. Had to check it out for myself, so when I had to come back to the States for some meetings in May, I re-routed my in-bound flight through Chicago, had lunch at Giordanos, picked up a large sausage pie to to at Gino's East, and flew on to my meetings.

Been a fan of deep dish ever since.

bearfootie · « **Reply #33 on:** February 24, 2006, 03:19:07 PM »

Burn8,
You mention in this crisco recipe that "after 24 hrs it rolls out quite nicely" is this 24 hrs on the counter at room temp or 24 hrs in the frig?

gottabedapan · « **Reply #34 on:** February 25, 2006, 10:12:02 AM »

A 24-hour counter rise would kill the dough.

itsinthesauce · « **Reply #35 on:** February 25, 2006, 07:20:28 PM »

Hey, Gotta, I'm told from some very good Pizza Makers in Chicago, that that is how they do it. Who knows?

gottabedapan · « **Reply #36 on:** February 25, 2006, 08:21:49 PM »

Itsinthesauce, I've been told that too (even believed it the first couple of times I heard it), but after killing far too many dough balls on 24-hr counter rises due to the yeast running out of food, I choose to believe they're lying to throw us off the scent. At least that's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

Canadian Bacon, not all deep dish pizzas are stuffed pizzas, and not all stuffed pizzas are deep dish. (Pizza Hut's Pan Pizza, for example, is a deep dish but it's not suffed. If you're old enugh to remember the Priazzo, that was an example of a stuffed pizza that was not deep dish.) Even among the Chicago pantheon (pun intended

), some are stuffed and some aren't.

As to how we knew there was a second layer of dough, burn8 said so ... twice:

Reply #6:

Quote

I dont usually do the laminating thing since I try to emulate my local Chicago shop which I really enjoy

and Reply #7:

Quote

I wouldnt mind finding a way to get my top layer of dough to stick better to the bottom layer around the rim of the pan. Obviously then, I must be creating a stuffed pie.

itsinthesauce · « **Reply #37 on:** February 25, 2006, 08:26:05 PM »

I agree with you, but one guy, whom I completley trust does it, but says the temp can't be over 75 degrees.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #38 on:** February 25, 2006, 09:09:57 PM »

I think itsinthesauce may be right. The recipe that burn8 used had no water, only the Crisco and butter, and he mentioned in one of his posts (when asked about using frozen Crisco) that the dough ball had a temperature of 70 degrees. Even with yeast at around 1.2%, the lack of water would really slow down the rate of fermentation. Clearly, from the photos, the dough was very dry. So I think it could withstand a 24-hour room temperature fermentation.

As far as the lamination is concerned, I believe burn8 was referring to the technique that is sometimes used of taking a sheeted skin, folding it in quarters and re-sheeting it. It was in this context that burn8 talked about using frozen Crisco and working it into the dough. But I believe gottabedapan is correct that the pie had two crusts, based on the second quote in his last post.

Peter

itsinthesauce · « **Reply #39 on:** February 25, 2006, 11:26:47 PM »

Peter, I'll try it when I get back in town and let you know.