Author Topic: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)  (Read 18247 times)

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Offline johnamus

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Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« on: October 23, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »
Dewey's Pizza started in 1998 and has expanded to several locations scattered in St Louis MO, Cleveland, Dayton, and Columbus.  The pizza is amazing, with a New York style puffed cornicione with zero bready-dough taste and 100% billowy spiderwebby voids.  The sauce stands out on it own with a nice blend of acidity, sweetness, and spice.  Of particular interest to readers of this forum is that the kitchen is completely visible to patrons through a huge 15 foot long plexiglass window near the back of the dining room.  This means nearly the entire pizza making process is fully visible -including the shaping and tossing of the dough to the final placement of the pie into the Baker's Pride deck ovens.   http://deweyspizza.com/

With all of this said, can anyone take a guess at a clone recipe?  I'm hoping that the photos of the dough balls and finished crust, along with the video of the hand tossing will help with hydration estimates.  I attached a few pictures of the last Dewey's pizza I purchased, along with a video I shot of the pizza cooks shaping and tossing the dough.  The sheen in the second picture is attributable to a misting bottle of oil that the cooks used to coat newly revealed dough balls.

Video of dough preparation:
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 04:19:56 PM by johnamus »


Offline johnamus

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 04:13:23 PM »
pics

Offline reinfuje

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 09:16:47 PM »
Dewey's was actually started in Cincinnati.  The service, pizza's and salads are very good.  I normally go to the University City, MO restaurant.  I have been wondering what the dough formulation is since it not like the other New York style doughs used at La Pizza and Raccanelli's in St. Louis nor like what I have had at Lombardi's and John's in NYC.  I don't think it is a high gluten flour like All Trump or KASL.  The crust has a soft texture.  I noticed after it is in the oven for a few minutes the pizza is transferred to a screen.  Baking times is probably in excess of 6 minutes.
The sauce is somewhat spicy. 
I would be interested if the forum members can provide some insight.

John

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 09:18:18 PM »
try any of the recipes that i've posted in the past few months
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Offline johnamus

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 10:13:48 PM »
Dewey's was actually started in Cincinnati.  The service, pizza's and salads are very good.  I normally go to the University City, MO restaurant.  I have been wondering what the dough formulation is since it not like the other New York style doughs used at La Pizza and Raccanelli's in St. Louis nor like what I have had at Lombardi's and John's in NYC.  I don't think it is a high gluten flour like All Trump or KASL.  The crust has a soft texture.  I noticed after it is in the oven for a few minutes the pizza is transferred to a screen.  Baking times is probably in excess of 6 minutes.
The sauce is somewhat spicy. 
I would be interested if the forum members can provide some insight.

John

I go to the U City location as well, in fact I took the attached pictures there yesterday :) 

You mentioned the soft texture of the crust, and I believe this is the key difference between a Dewey's pie and other NYC style pies.  If I had to describe it with an example, I would say that the finished cornicione from a typical Dewey's pizza can be smashed to a very thin width with minimal effort, whereas a similar smashing effort directed toward a typical NYC wouldn't result in the same amount of compression due to its slightly bready and dry texture.  For example, if you look at the extreme outside perimeter of the cornicione on the pizza that c0mpl3x posted (looks absolutely delicious by the way), you can see that it is a tad thicker in comparison to the Dewey's example.  The Dewey's outside perimeter is paper thin, and is as close to a monocoque crust as you can possibly get.  Monocoque, that's the best way to define the crust in a single word.  Its difficult to describe without actually eating the pizza.  Would this tenderness be due to lower oven temperatures? or perhaps the use of oils and dough conditioners? 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 10:24:15 PM by johnamus »

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 12:02:58 AM »
I go to the U City location as well, in fact I took the attached pictures there yesterday :) 

You mentioned the soft texture of the crust, and I believe this is the key difference between a Dewey's pie and other NYC style pies.  If I had to describe it with an example, I would say that the finished cornicione from a typical Dewey's pizza can be smashed to a very thin width with minimal effort, whereas a similar smashing effort directed toward a typical NYC wouldn't result in the same amount of compression due to its slightly bready and dry texture.  For example, if you look at the extreme outside perimeter of the cornicione on the pizza that c0mpl3x posted (looks absolutely delicious by the way), you can see that it is a tad thicker in comparison to the Dewey's example.  The Dewey's outside perimeter is paper thin, and is as close to a monocoque crust as you can possibly get.  Monocoque, that's the best way to define the crust in a single word.  Its difficult to describe without actually eating the pizza.  Would this tenderness be due to lower oven temperatures? or perhaps the use of oils and dough conditioners? 

i will add, that the pizza i posted, was less than 3 hours from mixing to picture.   i get impatient with 1-2-3+ day doughs, and rarely make them.   granted, i can and have, but i find myself on short notice for pizza most of the time
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Offline johnamus

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM »
c0mpl3x, that pizza looks amazing, is the recipe posted somewhere on this site?

I'm going to email Dewey's to try to obtain insight into their procedures and/or recipe, hopefully they'll be willing to divulge details regarding their unique crust.  Considering their kitchens feature a giant picture window on the wall adjacent to the dining room, there is a good chance that they'll be forthcoming. 
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 12:49:30 AM by johnamus »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2011, 01:07:04 AM »
That's a beautiful crumb shot Jon.  I took a look at some of the recipes you've posted and didn't see when you divide and ball your dough.  Do you ball it right after the initial stretch and folds or do you bulk it to double first then divide and ball?

Chau

Offline briterian

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2011, 08:16:08 AM »
A friend of mine took a pizza making class from Dewey's a few years ago and got this recipe.  I've tried it a few times and it's pretty close but I'd love to see Pete, Norma, Scott - etc give it a look and see if they can offer any additional assistance.


Dewey’s Pizza Dough
Makes 2 12” Pizzas


1 ½ cups of warm water (110-115 F)
2 T Sugar
1 Packet of active dry yeast (2 ¼ t) (I only use ½ t to 1 tsp if I intend to make the pizza the next day)
1 ½ t Salt
2 T Olive Oil
4 Cups of All Purpose Flour (use bread flour for a chewier crust)

Pour warm water, sugar and yeast into a bowl and stir and let sit for 10 minutes. Make sure yeast is ‘active’ by making sure a foamy head appears on surface.

Add salt, olive oil to bowl and stir.  Add one cup of flour at a time and stir to combine.  It’s helpful to have a mixer to do this work for you – like a whirlpool mixer with the dough hook, if not knead by hand. After you add the 4th cup of flour, knead for about 10 minutes.  It should be very smooth texture and about the size of the grapefruit.  Split into two small balls and place each in a slightly oiled bowl.  Be sure to get a bit of oil on the outer dough ball so it doesn’t dry out.  Put plastic wrap over bowl and let rise for 75 min if you used 2 ¼ t or put in fridge if you used the smaller amount of yeast and allow to rise overnight or multiple nights. 

Roll out dough, top and place in a pre-heated 500 degree oven (I let the oven preheat for 1 hr).  I also place dough on a paddle and slide onto a stone.  If you don’t have a stone you can you a cookie sheet.   Bake 6-10 minutes.   Enjoy.   


Offline clkou

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 10:38:22 AM »
It's amazing to me that all these recipes look remarkably the same yet there are so many different results.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 10:56:04 AM »
I thought that the recipe looked familiar. It is the subject of the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3146.msg26686.html#msg26686. If that is the recipe that Dewey's is usng, it is not a NY style dough recipe but rather something that more resembles a thin American style pizza because of the high oil and sugar content. For more on the recipe see item 1 under General at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8297.msg71576.html#msg71576.

Peter

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 12:54:57 PM »
55% hydration 5% oil 2.75% salt 4.5% sugar and around .3% yeast would be my guess.
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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 12:59:35 PM »
55% hydration 5% oil 2.75% salt 4.5% sugar and around .3% yeast would be my guess.

Bake time?

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 01:10:56 PM »
Bake time?

500-525º would be my guess.  time can't be answered, it's like asking 'what is the best soda?' it's all in what you find yourself.  10mins for me could be 12 for you and 8 for the next guy
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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 01:22:45 PM »
That's a beautiful crumb shot Jon.  I took a look at some of the recipes you've posted and didn't see when you divide and ball your dough.  Do you ball it right after the initial stretch and folds or do you bulk it to double first then divide and ball?

Chau

after initial mix, i usually let it set for 10-30 mins and get a grasp on doing it's dough things before i start hacking and folding it, usually. after the dough shows signs of life, i will divide it down, usually into 2-3 balls, sometimes no dividing at all if it's one large pan pizza or a single ball recipe. after i divide, i dust the dough with flour on the new sticky parts exposed, and sort of do a triangle stretch and fold because it always seems to wind up in a triangle shape after i divide.  i give it a light balling, and place on a canola sprayed steamwell pan that i cover with plastic wrap.  after an hour or so, or if its a high yeast % dough, and shows signs of rising more than i want, i stretch and fold it, and give it a hard reball. at this point i usually let it sit until doubled or slightly more, i've used dough tripled with no problems.  very airy, crunchy crust, and moist crumb in my experiences

i don't max out the stretch and folds when i make my dough, i do just enough to get surface tension, give it enough of a ball to keep it somewhat round, and place back into the pan to rise more.

personal note: this is what i do for same day dough. for an extended period, i would maximize my stretch and folds to the point that the dough will barely stick and hold to itself on the stretch and folds.
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Offline briterian

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2011, 03:23:38 PM »
Thanks Pete.  looks like maybe the recipe my friend was given was a hoax and not really linked to Deweys.  Deweys is pretty sweet and moist - almost like a soft sweet bun so I always thought the recipe seemed pretty legit.

Offline budgetpizza

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2011, 04:33:17 PM »
C0mpl3x I just tested your technique and got the best pizza I've made yet. Just wanted to say thanks for the tips!



Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 12:19:55 AM »
C0mpl3x I just tested your technique and got the best pizza I've made yet. Just wanted to say thanks for the tips!



good to know, sometimes i feel/sound like i'm full of myself.  it's refreshing when someone gets results equal to or better than my results, for the same techniques.

remember, some techniques are better for some than others.  it may work for keste, papa johns, or the down the street mom/pop shop, but it may not work for you, and vice versa
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Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2011, 01:46:20 PM »
Just wanted to throw in another request for a Dewey's clone.....it's my favorite pizza shop in the area.

I've tried a couple of the recipe's on here, including the one in this thread...but they aren't quite right.  Dewey's crust almost has a 'pastry' quality to it....it's crisp on the outside, very airy and delicate on the inside...almost Croissant like, with a touch of sweetness.  It is not 'bready' at all ..which unfortunately for me, any recipe that I've tried that uses Bread flour always winds up with a fairly dense, bread like crust.

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2011, 11:57:50 PM »
I have some more information pertinent to this conversation...... After my last trip to Dewey's I asked them if I could purchase their dough, to which they luckily obliged. 

So I bought 1 dough ball that they would use for a 13" pizza.  I brought it home and stored it in the fridge for 2 days before making it today. 

A few notes...
1. The weight of the dough ball was exactly 395g

2. The dough was fairly wet (wet enough to stick to plastic wrap, but not actually stick to the plastic wrap..meaning when I took the plastic off, no dough was stuck to the plastic)

3. It smelled like a low-yeast, cold fermented dough....but then again, i sniffed it after keeping it in my fridge for 2 days

4. It was probably the easiest dough I've ever worked with...I stretched it to my 14" screen by simply tossing it a few times

5. The dough was very "airy" , it was the only dough I've ever worked with that actually formed a lot of air bubbles as I formed the skin

Of course I didnt take pictures..which was probably better off because I wound up slightly burning the thing. However, when I was done, the crust had pretty much the same texture as what I eat at Deweys.  My pizza was a little thinner due to the fact that I fit it a 13" dough to a 14" screen.   

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2011, 02:50:16 AM »
i would try adjusting your hydration in the recipe i posted, to around 64% if it seems that wet.  feels overproofed when handling, but still proofed and tight?  i would say standard bread flour (from a bread and bakery flour, not a store flour) such as king arthur, sams club, con agra, etc

stretch and fold periods of 60-90 minutes between stretch, getting close to maxing the s/f each time you do it.   let it rest longer as you stretch, starting at like 30-45 and working towards 60-90 possibly 75-105 min at the end, letting it bench rest.   when you do your last s/f, move it to the fridge
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Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2011, 01:13:57 PM »
Im gonna make my 1st attempt at this dough using your stretch and fold technique tonight...I plan on storing the dough in the fridge for 2 days and using it on Wednesday. I will report back with results....
Here is the first formulation I will be trying:

Flour (King Arthur Bread Flour) (100%):
Water (64%):
IDY (.4%):
Salt (2.75%):
Canola Oil (5%):
Sugar (4.5%):
Total (176.65%):
Single Ball:
447.21 g  |  15.77 oz | 0.99 lbs
286.22 g  |  10.1 oz | 0.63 lbs
1.79 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.59 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
12.3 g | 0.43 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.56 tsp | 0.85 tbsp
22.36 g | 0.79 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.92 tsp | 1.64 tbsp
20.12 g | 0.71 oz | 0.04 lbs | 5.05 tsp | 1.68 tbsp
790 g | 27.87 oz | 1.74 lbs | TF = N/A
395 g | 13.93 oz | 0.87 lbs

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2011, 12:08:08 AM »
As of now, that 1st formulation I tried in my last post is looking like a bust.  After a 2 day cold fermentation, my first dough ball did not turn out too good.  I let the dough ball rest at room temp for about 30 mins before trying to form the skin....that's when I realized things weren't going to work out too well. 

The dough was far too sticky....even with the use of a liberal amount of semolina. Also the dough was far too elastic...it was shrinking back on itself the entire time I tried to shape it. 

I didnt bother taking pictures because it wasn't anything worth taking pictures of.  I'm not sure what the issue is....but I have one more dough ball left from the formulation that is going to sit in the fridge until Saturday (making a 5 day cold fermentation).  If experience teaches me anything, this dough will probably work out much better than the one I tried tonight. 

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2011, 12:25:30 AM »
Just to follow up on that 1st attempt recipe I posted a couple posts ago....It can now be declared a complete bust.
I originally made 2 dough balls, with the first one detailed in my last post. 

The second dough ball, I made this weekend after a 6 day cold fermentation in my 37 degree fridge.  I took the dough ball out and let come to room temperature. I then tried to form a skin...once again, this dough does not a pretty skin make.  It is entirely way too sticky,elastic, and weak...just a moderate stretch caused it to rip.  Also, any attempt to stretch the dough on the counter caused the dough to immediately shrink back upon itself. 

But the dough itself wasn't a complete waste...since it was completely impossible to make a pizza out of, I simply made some haphazard shape out of it, tossed in a pan with some oil and it wound up making some rather tasty bread. 

So all in all my first experiment was quite futile.  The only way it resembled the actual Dewey's dough I got my hands on was in weight. Other than that, it didn't really resemble it at all.  I think in my next attempt, I may change hydration to 60%, change oil to 2.5% and opt for my typical kneading process instead of the stretch and fold technique. 

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2011, 01:51:57 AM »
what flour are you using?
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