Author Topic: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)  (Read 17410 times)

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Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2011, 10:41:04 AM »
what flour are you using?


I used King Arthur Bread Flour for this particular recipe.


Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2011, 02:23:59 PM »
So, I sent an email to Dewey's today, asking them for any hints they would be willing to divulge as to the secret of their crust.  Within 2 hours, I received a reply.  The guy that responded from Deweys told me this and only this :

"The one thing that I can let you know that will make a difference in the dough is that we make it with a very cold recipe and let it rise in refrigeration for 2 days prior to using it.  this allows the gluten to develop more slowly, thus making it more elastic. "

It makes it sound like that it may mean the dough is made using cold water and high yeast content perhaps? I'm still very much a pizza making new guy....so any insight on to this recent development would be great. 
 

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 04:03:51 PM »
Just wanted to throw in another request for a Dewey's clone.....it's my favorite pizza shop in the area.

I've tried a couple of the recipe's on here, including the one in this thread...but they aren't quite right.  Dewey's crust almost has a 'pastry' quality to it....it's crisp on the outside, very airy and delicate on the inside...almost Croissant like, with a touch of sweetness.  It is not 'bready' at all ..which unfortunately for me, any recipe that I've tried that uses Bread flour always winds up with a fairly dense, bread like crust.


Try Pete-zza's Papa John's clone.  it seems to me to be the closest thing to what you're describing above - at least from the recipes i've used on this forum.  (but i am a novice so this could be completely wrong haha)

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2011, 11:33:38 PM »
I tried yet another attempt this week,...and it came somewhat close.  Since I have been using Pete-zza's Emergency Papa Johns recipe with success as my "hand tossed" go-to, I modified it a bit.

Here was the formulation I tried this time:

Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (.65%):
Salt (1.5%):
Canola Oil (6.5%):
Honey (5.5%):
Total (172.15%):
229.45 g  |  8.09 oz | 0.51 lbs
133.08 g  |  4.69 oz | 0.29 lbs
1.49 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
3.44 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.72 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
14.91 g | 0.53 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.28 tsp | 1.09 tbsp
12.62 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 1.8 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
395 g | 13.93 oz | 0.87 lbs | TF = N/A

After receiving the email from Dewey's COO, regarding how their whole process is "cold", this was the method I used:

1. Instead of using warm tap water for my dough, I used the coldest water I could pull from my tap. I'm not sure of the temperature,
but it was definitely cold to the touch. Its winter in Cleveland, and the cold water is much colder in the winter.

2. I mixed the dough in my KA mixer with my C style dough hook for about 4 minutes, which is about 2 minutes less than I typically would mix. When I removed the dough from the mixer, it was still cool to the touch.

3. I immediately took the dough, sprayed it with some cooking spray, and tossed it in a freezer bag. The bag was then placed in my 37 degree fridge to ferment.

After 48 hours of fermentation, I made the pizza.  The dough was a pleasure to work with, fairly similar to the dough I bought from Deweys.  The only significant difference I could immediately recognize was this dough did not immediately form bubbles while shaping the skin.  From a hydration standpoint, the doughs felt very similar in wetness. 

The pizza was placed on a 12" screen and placed on the bottom rack of my gas oven and baked at 500 degrees for 10 minutes. At 10 minutes, the crust was perfectly browned.

The finished product was probably one of my best doughs to date.  Very airy crumb, large bubbles...just like Deweys.  As I said, this dough is somewhat close...however still lacks some texture notes.  Dewey's crust has a different kind of crispness to it, and the interior is a little more soft and airy. 

I really should have taken pictures, and I promise I will take pictures on my next attempt....I'm just not sure where to go for my next attempt.  The sweetness of this recipe seemed almost spot on..however I could probably up it to 6%.  I also may consider changing the oil in my dough from Canola oil to Vegetable Oil.  Also, since the COO's email put a lot of emphasis on their COLD process, I may try using iced water instead of just cold tap water. I am just worried that too cold of water will cause my dough not to rise properly over the course of 48 hours. 

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2011, 11:51:31 AM »
thanks for the update!  I am curious though about the use of cold water, and whether that is really necessary.  Warm water is required to activate ADY, but other than that temperature only plays a role in limiting the yeast metabolism.  As I understand it, the use of cold water would only work to slow the yeast metabolism (and progress of your dough proofing), but only as long as your dough is cold - perhaps 2 hours max if you are rising at room temperature.

With a 48 hour proof, i'm not convinced that the cold water would make any difference at all...  Or does the cold water do something else that I'm missing?   :chef: :pizza:

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2011, 12:36:28 AM »
My latest update....I changed my recipe I tried in my last post to 60% hydration and 7% honey. I also used iced water in the recipe.  Everything else, maintained the same. 

I have to say..the workability/extensibility of the dough seemed very similar to that of Dewey's actual dough.  In fact, it is the first dough i have made the instantly formed air bubbles while forming the skin (just like Dewey's). 

Unfortunately, the taste and texture were still off...I'm missing something and not sure what.  I will send another email to Dewey's COO and see if I can't find out any more information. 

Here are some pictures of my latest attempt:


Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2012, 12:39:02 PM »
So I just purchased another dough ball from Deweys yesterday, and intend to make a pizza with it tonight.  Is there any methods I could use to "test" the hydration level of their dough? Since I actually have their dough in hand, I feel like there should be something I can do with it (besides weight it), that would provide me more insight as to how to go about reverse engineering it.


Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2012, 12:51:37 PM »
You can calculate the water content by measuring the fresh mass and the dry mass (oven-dried at about 100 degrees celcius until you reach a constant mass - this will probably take 24-48 hours but i've never actually done it on dough.  You can use a higher temperature to reduce the time, however then you run the risk of your dry mass being altered by e.g. thermal decomposition of your dough.)

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2012, 01:10:09 PM »
You can calculate the water content by measuring the fresh mass and the dry mass (oven-dried at about 100 degrees celcius until you reach a constant mass - this will probably take 24-48 hours but i've never actually done it on dough.  You can use a higher temperature to reduce the time, however then you run the risk of your dry mass being altered by e.g. thermal decomposition of your dough.)

The whole idea of leaving my oven on for 24-48 hours isnt really viable.. I can, however, crank my toaster oven to 500..and toss a chunk of the dough in there for a while...I just have no idea, how long it would take?? And I would have to imagine at some point it was just turn into a black smelly nugget. 


Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2012, 01:15:29 PM »
Pete-zza and Norma discussed this method in the Mellow Mushroom thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.0.html.  I'm not sure which page it's on, but probably around p. 50 or 60.  I don't know what temperatures or times they used.

The process is a lot like making beef jerky in your oven (low temps for long period of time to dehydrate your sample).  I wouldn't want to use a toaster oven for that, though, that seems like a much greater fire risk than a home oven.   :o

EDIT:  500 is much too high of a temperature.  Those temperatures cause thermal breakdown of the sample (this is what causes e.g. "charring"), which you want to avoid if you're trying to get an accurate dry mass.  It's best to work around 100 C.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 01:17:54 PM by CDNpielover »

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2012, 01:31:44 PM »
Pete-zza and Norma discussed this method in the Mellow Mushroom thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.0.html.  I'm not sure which page it's on, but probably around p. 50 or 60.  I don't know what temperatures or times they used.

The process is a lot like making beef jerky in your oven (low temps for long period of time to dehydrate your sample).  I wouldn't want to use a toaster oven for that, though, that seems like a much greater fire risk than a home oven.   :o

EDIT:  500 is much too high of a temperature.  Those temperatures cause thermal breakdown of the sample (this is what causes e.g. "charring"), which you want to avoid if you're trying to get an accurate dry mass.  It's best to work around 100 C.

I found the post you were referring to at : http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg164194.html#msg164194 

Unfortunately, Im not sure I feel comfortable leaving any oven on (toaster oven or otherwise) for a minimum 12 hours.... I'm never home that long, or I'm sleeping. And we all know that leaving any sort of oven unsupervised for hours at a time is a pretty bad idea.


Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2012, 01:34:20 PM »
I have drying ovens and analytical balances here, I can do the testing if you want to send some samples to Canada.   :chef:

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2012, 01:36:44 PM »
I have drying ovens and analytical balances here, I can do the testing if you want to send some samples to Canada.   :chef:

I have really easy access to the dough..so I wouldnt have any issues sending you some.  I just have never sent any food product in the mail before...and I'm not entirely sure how that works internationally.  Have you had people send you dough from the US before? How painful is the process?

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2012, 01:40:45 PM »
I haven't received any dough in the mail, and I'll have to look into the regulations for that kind of thing.  Another thing to consider is the potential wait times at customs.

Offline norma427

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2012, 06:05:15 PM »
FJPhil,

If you are interested this is where I started the hydration test with part of the MM dough ball at Reply 1038 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg168113.html#msg168113 and the next few posts.  I canít help you with the hydration calculation numbers, but can tell you what I did.  It didnít take 12 hrs. for the hydration test.  Peter helped me though the process.

Norma

Offline FJPhil

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2012, 01:48:59 PM »
So I went ahead and made my pizza with Dewey's dough again... Note on the first pic..the actual dough ball weight was 390g. For whatever reason when I took the pic, the weight was fluctuating. 

A few more notes:
1. Dewey's dough really is the easiest dough I have ever worked with.  I rate the Papa Johns clone at about a 8 out of 10 on the easyness scale..Dewey's is def a 10 out of 10..if not higher.  It literally takes only 1 or 2 mild tosses and the thing is already opened to the full 13" size. 

2. The dough is extremely pillowy and soft, even straight out of the refrigerator.

3. It doesnt have a particularly strong odor...which would lead me to believe that it is definitely an IDY based dough. 

Also, when I baked this pizza, I baked it on a screen on the lowest rack in my gas oven at 500 for about 10 mins.  I recently broke my pizza stone, otherwise I would have used that.  At Dewey's, I believe they use a Baker's Pride steel deck oven.  Based on this info, even with using Dewey's actual dough, my pizza doesnt really come out to the same texture as if you were to get it in the restaurant. 


Offline Fullback66

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2012, 09:14:42 PM »
When you make the perfect Dewey's Pizza dough please share with us. I love the pizza at Dewey's.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2012, 05:25:45 PM »
When I did hydration tests on the MM thread I cooked a 10 gram sample pressed flat into a 2 1/2 in.round  ramakin, 350 degree oven for 10 min.   Norma did the same type of test with a dough ball I sent her from an MM shop and got the same results.

Bob
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2012, 05:36:14 PM »
But keep in mind that although different trials using the same method produced similar results, this does not mean the results are accurate measurements of the actual percent water of the dough.  I do not have experience measuring the water content of doughs, and perhaps that method might work just fine given the level of resolution need for baking (?).  i do have experience working with plant materials though, and generally one wants to work at lower temperatures (e.g. around 100 C) for longer periods of time (until a constant mass is achieved).  At higher temperatures thermal breakdown reactions begin, which will be interpreted as water loss.  Pyrolysis for example begins in wood at around 200 degrees celcius, and if this is occurring in the dough samples then this will lead to an artificially high measurement of water content.  An easy way to tell if this is occurring in the dough is to see if it is burning/browning/charring.   :chef:

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2012, 05:51:33 PM »
But keep in mind that although different trials using the same method produced similar results, this does not mean the results are accurate measurements of the actual percent water of the dough.  I do not have experience measuring the water content of doughs, and perhaps that method might work just fine given the level of resolution need for baking (?).  i do have experience working with plant materials though, and generally one wants to work at lower temperatures (e.g. around 100 C) for longer periods of time (until a constant mass is achieved).  At higher temperatures thermal breakdown reactions begin, which will be interpreted as water loss.  Pyrolysis for example begins in wood at around 200 degrees celcius, and if this is occurring in the dough samples then this will lead to an artificially high measurement of water content.  An easy way to tell if this is occurring in the dough is to see if it is burning/browning/charring.   :chef:
Yes, you are absolutely right...I'm sorry, I forgot to add that Peter took our result numbers and whipped some of his magic on it to come up with the actual recipe percent .   Thanks CDN.

Bob
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2012, 07:02:49 PM »
But keep in mind that although different trials using the same method produced similar results, this does not mean the results are accurate measurements of the actual percent water of the dough.  I do not have experience measuring the water content of doughs, and perhaps that method might work just fine given the level of resolution need for baking (?).  i do have experience working with plant materials though, and generally one wants to work at lower temperatures (e.g. around 100 C) for longer periods of time (until a constant mass is achieved).  At higher temperatures thermal breakdown reactions begin, which will be interpreted as water loss.  Pyrolysis for example begins in wood at around 200 degrees celcius, and if this is occurring in the dough samples then this will lead to an artificially high measurement of water content.  An easy way to tell if this is occurring in the dough is to see if it is burning/browning/charring.   :chef:

CDNpielover,

The instructions I used and also gave to Norma called for baking the sample piece of dough at around 212 degrees F for several hours. This was after the sample was baked at a high enough temperature to cause the sample to expand and be amenable to being slit into two pieces for the longer bake. More specific details are given at the MM thread.

Peter

Offline DustinA

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2013, 08:06:28 AM »
Does anyone have any insights into their sauce recipe?  My wife and I went Dewey's last night and were trying to dissect what was in their sauce.  It's extremely bright and acidic which made me suspect they used a red wine vinegar of some sort and was also just slightly spicy, which made me suspect red pepper flakes even though non were visible.  Upon visual inspection I could see pepper and what I'm assuming to be oregano as it didn't have the sweetness that basil would usually give you.

Anybody else have any thoughts?

Offline DustinA

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Re: Dewey's Pizza - Perfection (replication?)
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2013, 03:08:44 PM »
I stumbled upon success out of the blue yesterday with the below recipe.

1000g/100% Flour  (Gen Mills High gluten, bromated superlative)
650g/65% cold filtered water
20g/2% canola oil
20g/2% honey
20g/2% sea salt
1 (6oz) square of baker's yeast.

I dissolved the yeast into the water and honey and mixed to combine.  I let that stand for 10 minutes and then mixed in the dry ingredients.  After bringing it to a shaggy mass stage, I further kneaded it until I had a good elastic consistency. 

From there, I did a one hour bulk rise on the counter before portioning, balling and tossing the dough in the fridge for a 72 hour nap.

When I was ready to bake them off, I let them sit out for an hour while my oven preheated.  I brought the oven up to 500 for an hour and got my pizza stone nice and hot.  The pies went directly onto the stone and baked up nice, brown and crispy.  These were delicious.

Each were dressed with Pizziolo, a dash of oregano, basil and red pepper flakes and then top with RD whole milk mozz.

This was as near to a Dewey's crust as I have ever gotten.  The only thing that was missing was that slight nutty flavor that Dewey's gets.  At this point, I'm attributing that to a higher temperature oven than I'm using.  I'll get some pics up as soon as I can.


 

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