Author Topic: Autoalyse (standard)?  (Read 2222 times)

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piroshok

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Autoalyse (standard)?
« on: July 15, 2005, 01:20:22 AM »
Hi again
Is there any autoalyse standard method or times between dough fermentations to get the dough to develop and condition?
Thank you


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Autoalyse (standard)?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2005, 07:01:25 AM »
piroshok,

The subject of autolyse has been discussed many times on this forum and the term "autolyse" itself has come to be used in many different contexts and situations. Not too long ago, at another thread (A16), I attempted to put the subject of autolyse in historical context, starting with the procedure as conceived by Professor Raymond Calvel, the father of the autolyse method. For your convenience, I have excerpted below a portion of what I wrote at the other thread. As for a standard autolyse period, I have seen references to using anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. I typically use 15 minutes for a small amount of pizza dough. Here's the excerpt (in quotes):

"My starting point with autolyse was the classical one--the approach I have since come to learn (from DINKS) was invented by Prof. Raymond Calvel, the author of Le Gaut de pain and widely considered the world's foremost expert on French bread. He wondered what would happen if one combined just flour and water and let it rest. No yeast or preferment would be included since they would start to ferment and acidify the dough and, in the process, reduce the effectiveness of the enzymes (e.g., protease) that attack and soften the gluten and which do this most effectively in a more neutral pH environment. No salt would be added either, since it would cause the gluten to tighten and thereby hinder the dough's development and hydration. What Prof. Calvel discovered is that autolyse resulted in a dough with better hydration, gluten development and softness. The effects of these improvements were to shorten the overall mixing time, increase the dough's extensibility, and produce a bread with a creamy colored crumb and better aroma and flavor. 

One of the early criticisms of the Calvel autolyse in a commercial environment was that the autolyse rest period meant having to stop the mixing process for the duration of the autolyse. Ultimately, bakers came to alter the Calvel autolyse in many ways to get around this concern, even though what they did in their alterations in many (if not most) cases could no longer be technically called an "autolyse", at least as contemplated by Prof. Calvel. Yet the term "autolyse" remained and is commonly used today to describe just about any period of rest, no matter when, how or where it is implemented. Fortunately, doughs seem to benefit from any period of rest and will have some of the characteristics envisioned by Prof. Calvel in his work."

Peter

piroshok

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Re: Autoalyse (standard)?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2005, 07:14:01 AM »
Ok thanks Pete-zza
but I have read somethings about it however many questions remind in back of my head and wanted to clarify before proceeding further. I think I have become a converted in autoalyse and I see the benefits of it though I originlally come from distant land with a huge Italian population things permeate one way or another yet I have lived in Australia for many years where flour (as you have it )for one is not what you have in USA (beign more affluent).
So my apologies if I butt in with questions that may have been already aswered elsewhere.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Autoalyse (standard)?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2005, 07:30:05 AM »
piroshok,

Feel free to ask questions. Our members have used autolyse and other rest periods in many different situations, with varying degrees of success and satisfaction, so there is a body of experience at the forum to help you.

Peter

piroshok

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Re: Autoalyse (standard)?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2005, 09:23:15 AM »
Thank you
As you may already know it is hard to get good high protein flour here and more often than not the labels decribing ingredients are not very clear.
Often ecountered situations where the dough would spring back after kneeding it for few minutes.
In other opportunities I havbe found the dough lacking of susbantial protein but guzzling water like mad
In these instance I have rsted the dough for intervals and added some conditioners like lemon juice
But I am not certain of how to use this technique in general
Could someone here help me working on a standard technique?
thanks

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Autoalyse (standard)?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2005, 02:05:57 PM »
piroshok,

For an autolyse to be most effective, it would be helpful not only to have a good dough recipe to begin with but to also have some idea as to the absorption rate of the flour you will be using to make the dough. The absorption rate is what the miller specifies as the more or less “optimum” hydration of the flour as determined through laboratory analysis (Farinograph), and is specified as a percentage. For example, for the King Arthur high-gluten flour it is 63%, plus or minus 2%. The absorption rate for an all-purpose flour might be closer to 60%. (By contrast, a cake flour or pastry flour can be around 50%). Knowing numbers like these allows you to have an idea as to how much water to use in relation to the amount of flour. Some millers have spec sheets on their flours that give you the absorption rates, but many do not publicize that information. In those cases, you would have to call the miller and ask for the figures.

Absent the above type of information, you have to experiment with the amount of water for a given amount of flour. From what you have said about Australian flours, this is what you most likely have to do. The way I do it under similar circumstances is to take part of the flour I plan to use in my recipe and add some of the water specified in the recipe. I stir these with a spoon to form a smooth, lump-free, slurry-like mixture. I then continue to add a bit more flour and water, stir, and continue with this process until all the flour is in the bowl but with a small amount of water remaining. All of this can be done by hand in a bowl or work surface or in a mixer. I then add the remaining water incrementally and knead it in to see whether the dough will absorb it. If all the water is fully absorbed and needs more, I add more (and note the amount of additional water). I stop when the dough is a bit moist and tacky and doesn't look like it wants to take on more water. Knowing the total amount of water I used, I can determine an "effective" absorption rate for the flour by dividing the weight of the total water by the weight of the flour I used. That would be the number I would use as a hydration percent the next time I use the same flour.

Turning now to the autolyse, there are many possible variations, even within the original framework set forth by Prof. Calvel. The way I usually do it is to take a portion of the flour and water as specified in my recipe, say, 1/3 to 1/2 of each, and mix together within a bowl. I then cover the bowl and let the mixture (it will be like a slurry) rest for about 15 minutes to a half-hour. This is called the autolyse period. During this period, the flour has time to better absorb the water (hydrate). I then gradually add the rest of the flour along with the remaining water. If I am using IDY, I will add it to the flour; if I am using ADY, I will have proofed it in advance using a small portion of the original water (warm). That gets added to the remaining water. If I am using a preferment, it goes into the water.

I use the same procedure as described above to gradually combine the flour with the water/yeast. Once I am satisfied that the dough is absorbing the water, I add the oil, if my recipe calls for it, and knead that in, and continue kneading until the dough approaches the final condition I am trying to achieve. Finally, I add the salt and knead that in until it is well incorporated. I usually end up doing about a minute of hand kneading to be sure that the dough is in proper condition and to shape it before it goes into its container. If everything falls into place using the above procedure, you should be able to cut short the total knead time by a couple of minutes, which is good for the dough because it reduces the degree of oxidation of the dough (if using a mixer).

In addition to considering the above approach, you should also take a look at the dough processing technique used by pftaylor in making his Raquel dough. The technique is a variation of the classical Calvel autolyse but it works extremely well. It makes one of the best handling doughs I have seen in a home environment. Using whatever Australian flour at your disposal, you may have to do some experimenting, but using the underlying Raquel technique should still be a big help.

Peter

Offline David

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Re: Autoalyse (standard)?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2005, 02:29:52 PM »
Here is a link to some information that may help you in your endeavours.

http://www.australianflourmills.com.au/AFM_Products.htm
If you're looking for a date... go to the Supermarket.If you're looking for a wife....go to the Farmers market

piroshok

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Re: Autoalyse (standard)?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2005, 06:46:02 PM »
Thank you for all your help Peter
This thread that you refer to is quite long and I have been reading it but stil l few things were left out so I thought better ask
Anywa I came from a country where Italians make up nearly fifty percent of the population is like an Italian colony that Italians never knew it existed. Pizza has been considered as a staple food since early days last century along side cafes in every corner since the early nineteen hundreds.
Anyway some of the pizzas made here look strange to me but never mind I accept that there are flavours and tastes  and other standards diffent to mine.
I like the autoalyse technique for one and intended to implemented soon as I have mastered. Overall I belive it is a good technique od developing a good dough.
     
Thanks david but can't get that flour down in Melbourne though I have found other suppliers of similar type.
 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2005, 07:42:47 AM by piroshok »


 

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