Author Topic: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate  (Read 7828 times)

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scott123

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2011, 07:48:20 PM »
Tyler, I'm finding two developments extremely surprising.  The first is how far you've come, the second is that no one is congratulating you on your tremendous growth. Fortunately, I think you're very much aware of the extent of your victory, so the lack of back patting is really inconsequential.  Besides, when it comes to NY style pizza, there's really only one opinion on this forum that really counts*, so if I say you're kicking ass, you're kicking ass.  ;D

As I was typing the 'don't add water to refrigerating dough' caution, I was thinking to myself "just watch, the AT dough will be better."  And there it was.  I have to admit that the KA Italian is a bit of a wild card, so maybe that's what's messing with the blend.

Evoo, imo, is not suitable for pizza dough.  It's expensive and doesn't bring much flavor to the finished crust.  You get a lot more bang for your buck by adding the evoo on top of the pizza.  If you do want a more flavorful dough, go with a third day of fermentation.  That should give you the robustness you're looking for. Just make sure you adjust the yeast downward to compensate for the additional time.

I'm guessing that you haven't lived in NYC for very long, because, if you did, you wouldn't be considering a thicker crust.  I missed it when you posted the recipe, but .09 is too thick for NY style.  There's no way Salvatore's is .09 or thicker.  Now... if you want to try your hand at a L&B clone, then go as thick as you want (with a Brooklyn Sicilian recipe), but you can't just take a NY pie and go thicker and assume everything's going to be okay.  It messes with too much stuff (oven spring, cheese bubbling, crispness/flop, etc.). It's one thing for a Midwesterner to make a football and try to pass it off as NY style, but I expect more from you  :P

*Blatant attempt to push buttons and get some more participation in this thread  ;D


Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2011, 08:57:22 PM »
Thanks, Scott. My eyes and mouth definitely told me about the victory. It really did not take long to make a huge improvement with the help of the experts here (mostly you), and countless hours of reading older posts. (and good google search technique)

Remember, I added the water when the dough was in the fridge for like 40-50 minutes. I didn't think it would be that detrimental, and it didn't seem to be. And, my fridge isn't so powerful, so the dough was not super cold then.

Code: [Select]
If you do want a more flavorful dough, go with a third day of fermentation. I will try that this week, and I'll leave out the EVOO as I'm seeing many threads advise.

Guessed wrong about me moving here. I've been here my whole life ;D  I grew up on the three main food groups: chinese, bagels, pizza :-D. Ever since I got my driver's license I've traveled the area looking for great pizzas.

When I said thicker I meant like .10. My dough is coming out super thin... Maybe I am giving too much to the crust or stretching incorrectly, but the bottom is definitely not as thick as most places. I could see through in this last pie. I am not ready for an L&B clone. I want to make it, but its unrealistic for now. I don't know enough about the variations that moisture and yeast make to come up with the formula. If no one else has figured it out yet, I certainly am not. Although, I still think the double-dough is the source of the soft middle layer... If you figure it out, I want to be the first to know. Its so far from me- 1:15 on the subway.


On a side note, I'm really in love with the steel plate. I've used stones before and never seen such a big oven spring.

-T

scott123

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2011, 09:13:02 PM »
A native NYer, huh?  I guess I did guess wrong.  It happens  ;D

For NY you really should almost see through a stretched skin.  If the dough is properly fermented (doubled, not manhandled during forming), it should rise enough to make a decently sized undercrust.  You might want to try pressing out a slightly smaller rim.  With a smaller rim, that leaves more dough for the undercrust.

Yes, steel plate is a quantum leap for the pizzamaker used to commercial baking stones.  High talc soapstone (the kind I work with) is the exact same way.   One day you're making truly mediocre pies wondering why they're so bready and lifeless, and the next it's like "steel/soapstone, where have you BEEN all my life?"

buceriasdon

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2011, 07:21:05 AM »
Tyler, Studying your photos, which look good, nice job, Scott nailed it, you have left too much dough in your rim. Try using your finger tips to define the rim a bit more before stretching the skin over your knuckles. It will come to you.
Don



For NY you really should almost see through a stretched skin.  If the dough is properly fermented (doubled, not manhandled during forming), it should rise enough to make a decently sized undercrust.  You might want to try pressing out a slightly smaller rim.  With a smaller rim, that leaves more dough for the undercrust.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2011, 08:50:09 PM »
I am very impressed and you have come a long way!Nice work!
 :chef:

Scott has been telling me to get a steel plate for so long now,and I keep putting it off.I will keep watching for threads like this until I order something.

Also,watch out for the addiction to come.You might find yourself making so many new pies just to see if you can do it better next time.I gained 25-30 lbs in a year from doing that.Kept trying to many different things,recipes and styles.Did not post them all here,but a ton of them were done for trial and error.

Well,the real reason for the weight gain,was I was making pies late at night when everyone went to bed,and when you eat after a certain time and go to sleep,you store it as fat.I didnt eat that much,but a slice or 3 at a time will go to the waist if you eat just before bedtime.
 :-D

I have since stopped doing that and I have lost nearly 15 lbs.Sorry to go way off subject!
Pizza making can be alot of fun and very addicting.

 ;D

-Bill

Offline johnamus

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2011, 09:14:35 PM »
Thanks for posting your results with the steel; I've been following both your threads while eagerly awaiting my own steel plate to be cut.  Are you planning to try any gentle oven mods to lower your bake time or are you content with your current (good looking) pies?  I'm curious to see how a steel-plate + oven mod combo will work for you.

Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2011, 10:37:11 PM »
Thanks to you both. Hopefully I won't gain any weight, chickenparm (what an awesome user name, who doesn't love chicken parm?). The fact that my plate is only 12" will help keep that calorie count down. Although, this 50lb bag of flour does need to be consumed..

Johnamus, I am currently running with +35F calibration on my oven. I am going to try a foil ball over the probe during the broil cycle as suggested by Scott, maybe this Friday. This is necessary because my oven keeps shutting the broiler on me. I don't know of any other gentle oven mods. If they are indeed "gentle," then I'd love to try them. I wish I owned the oven so that I could tinker with it--I think the probe resistance hacks are very cool.

Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2011, 06:12:39 PM »
Today's pie was made after a 5-day cold ferment. It did not have much oven spring. I'm guessing I left it in the fridge too long. No oil, no sugar. It tasted great!

I was able to make Scott123's foil on the probe trick work, so the broiler stayed lit today for the entire bake (4 minutes) for the first time. Awesome.

In other news, I was given a bit of camadoli starter in a jar. I have it properly fed and its looking nice and bubbly. Any tips, Scott123?


Offline chickenparm

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2011, 06:51:50 PM »
Thats making me HUNGRY! Nice work!Love the color of the rim too!
 8)

-Bill


scott123

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2011, 02:36:04 AM »
Tyler, this forum has quite a few members who believe in pretty large windows of dough viability.  I'm not one of those members  ;D When Reinhart, in a pizza recipe, says something along the lines of "use between 1 and 4 days," it, along with his many other idiotic remarks, gets me pondering what form my hostility will take when I finally get around to meeting the man.  Don't get me wrong, it's not like having to run home because you're hitting a couple hour window when your banana is perfectly ripe, but I firmly believe that a dough that's perfect one day will not be perfect the next.

That being said, your pizza looks great  ;D

Great news about the foil trick.  Not many people have protruding probes, so it won't work for everyone, but it's still good to know that it will be a viable way for some to get a couple more degrees out of their oven.   When you get a chance, could you get a shot of the foil envelope you made?

And, speaking of photos, next time, can we get an upskirt? You used the foil trick with 500 and the 35 calibration, right?  I'm thinking you're reading to use it at 525, but wanted to make sure you're not getting too much color on the undercrust.

I normally try to dissuade beginning NY style pizzamakers from working with starters because they complicate fermentation and are outside of the core NY pizzamaking canon.  At this point, though, I'm not sure I'd classify you as a beginner, so if you want to give it a shot, go for it.  I've studied sourdough chemistry, but have never worked with sourdoughs personally, so if you need some guidance, I'd start a new thread and see if one of the experts can help you.

Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2011, 10:31:33 AM »

Thanks for the nice words Scott and Chickenparm. Five days was definitely too long for me. I don't know if the lack of sugar had something to do with it. I used a ball of that dough on the third day and it was much much better. Anyway, I have attached an upskirt. It was too blurry so I omitted it, but you can see the coloring from this photo. It does look dark, but the dough was still very foldable, and the bottom didn't crack when I folded it.

I've also included a photo of my foil probe-I formed it loosely around a wooden tool. I did some dry runs and found that it was very difficult to get on without fidgeting, unless the center hole was quite large. There are two or three tight layers forming the center, and then another two "puffed" layers. To insert it I put on my best oven mitt and a tight fitting sweatshirt, before the broiler is launched of course. (Disclaimer: No one should ever be as stupid as I am and stick their arm in a hot oven)

I have the +35 calibration, and I've double checked it because of these weird results: Set at 340, I get 375 after a half hour (for cookies). If I set the oven at 500, my thermometer reads 535 after 45 minutes. If I set it at 525, I get 550. If I set it at 550, I only get 550-even after waiting until the 65 or 70 minute mark  ???. It seems the oven just does not have the power to get the air temperature any hotter--I could add some mass in there, but that would increase preheat time. At the 45 minute mark, the plate is anywhere between 540 and 570. At 1 hour the plate is usually >600, and I pop my pizza in then. Yesterday the oven was set to 550.

I'm going to mess with this sourdough a bit. Most of the threads say to just experiment, which is fine for me. At 3am I mixed something up because I couldn't sleep. If it works, I'll post it. I'll probably end up using the sourdough more for breads.

scott123

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 11:02:14 AM »
Thanks for the photos. Even with the blurriness, I can tell that it's a nice looking/well colored undercrust.  I think, even with the weird oven behavior, you're in good shape with the pre-heat temp/mod.   I guess you could try the foil pouch mod a little earlier- during the pre-heat, but I'm not sure you'll need it.  As you get into more toppings, the bake time will expand, which might require a little more umph from the hearth, but, as long as you stick to a traditional sparce/few NY topping aesthetic, you should be fine.

Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 12:54:18 PM »
Check this out. Its nontraditional, but came out pretty good. The Sourdough is a Camaldoli, based on KABF and filtered water, 100% hydration. I used 20% sourdough, for a 10 hour counter top rise. The flour was Caputo-I've never tried it for anything but pasta, and probably won't again (in this oven). The end crust was crunchy but a bit tough. Under the sauce and cheese was perfect. The flavor was great.

I kneaded for about 8 minutes. It made a nice windowpane at that time. The dough felt better than anything I've ever worked with. I didn't really make a crust; I pushed down the whole dough. Baked in 3:30.

Final Dough:
Caputo 00 Flour:           119.92 g | 4.23 oz | 0.26 lbs
Water:     66.62 g | 2.35 oz | 0.15 lbs
Salt:   2.66 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.48 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
Preferment:     26.65 g | 0.94 oz | 0.06 lbs
Grapeseed Oil:   4 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Total:          219.85 g | 7.75 oz | 0.48 lbs  | TF = 0.0816


Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2011, 08:46:33 PM »
I made another pie with my starter for dinner. The starter is 100% hydration and has been changed over to KA AP flour. The balance of the flour was All Trumps. This was an 11.5" pie with  63% hydration, 2% oil, 20% preferment. Counter rise at room temperature (around 65F) for 8 hours. Then 30 hours in the fridge (43F). Took it out and let it rise as a ball for 2 hours, and then I formed the skin as the oven warmed up (1 hour).

Flour:        129.5 g | 4.57 oz | 0.29 lbs
Water:         76.26 g | 2.69 oz | 0.17 lbs
Salt:                   2.88 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.52 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
Preferment:     28.78 g | 1.02 oz | 0.06 lbs
Oil:                    2.88 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.64 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
Total:          240.29 g | 8.48 oz | 0.53 lbs  | TF = 0.0816

I preheated at 525 for an hour and then lit the broiler, using the foil trick. For some reason the broiler wouldn't stay lit, so I had to open the oven a few times while the pie was cooking. I baked this pie for 6.5 minutes, much longer than usual, because I wanted to get some great browning (and perhaps some blackening). The pie tasted great (similar to John's), but unfortunately, it was overcooked.

The sauce was too dry, this is easy to remedy by draining less water.
The cheese was good, because I used it right from the fridge with no warm up time (brick mozz from the supermarket).
The crust tasted great but was too dry and crunchy (see photo). This was my problem. Assuming I liked the 6.5 minute cook time (for browning), how can I make my dough hold up longer? Is it more water, lower temperature, or both? I want it to be more floppy--In between what I am getting and a street pizza--like the coal places.


Tyler
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 09:43:56 PM by sum1else »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2011, 10:50:52 PM »
Tyler,

That pie looks GREAT! I know it may not have been what you wanted,but its another pie to learn from as well.That said,it looks salivating!
 8)

I have a few ideas to share,if you want a floppier crust end,but also folds nicely when you need it to.

I believe it is sometimes the size of the pie you are trying to make.11.5 is very small,and may not have enough mass to flop over when cut into slices when making a NY stylish type of pie.In my experience,at least a 14 inch sized pie can be crispy,floppy tip, with a foldable slice.One can make it smaller,with flop,but I have not had much success with the smaller pies.

Cut the bake time to 4 minutes or no more than 5.Do not worry about browning yet,see if this still makes a floppy crust and is cooked,even if lighter in color.The longer bake time can create a much crispier finish,which is what you did not want to make,but is still so good to eat!

Yet try to see what the shorter bake time makes.The worst that can happen,if the pie does not seem baked long enough after doing so,you can always cut up slices and reheat them for 30 seconds or so to finish them up more.

If the browning is important to you,add sugar to the dough,say around 2%.That helps the browning of the crust,but do be sure to use a shorter bake time to see how cooked the crust is without the sugar aided color at first.

You want to learn what the dough recipe you are using,and crust will turn out to be, during a certain bake time before adding sugar or being concerned for browning issues.It took me a while to realize I needed to do the same thing.The only way to know is to do experiments and you are doing so right now.


Here is a link to one of my 14 inch NY style pie baked on the 15 inch stone in my oven.I forget the bake times,but it is under 8 minutes.It was a bit too dark or charred but was still a good pie.It had oil and sugar in the dough as well.

http://s1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff479/BillsPizza86/Loving%20the%20NY%20style/











-Bill

Offline Essen1

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2011, 11:36:40 PM »
I made another pie with my starter for dinner. The starter is 100% hydration and has been changed over to KA AP flour. The balance of the flour was All Trumps. This was an 11.5" pie with  63% hydration, 2% oil, 20% preferment. Counter rise at room temperature (around 65F) for 8 hours. Then 30 hours in the fridge (43F). Took it out and let it rise as a ball for 2 hours, and then I formed the skin as the oven warmed up (1 hour).

Flour:        129.5 g | 4.57 oz | 0.29 lbs
Water:         76.26 g | 2.69 oz | 0.17 lbs
Salt:                   2.88 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.52 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
Preferment:     28.78 g | 1.02 oz | 0.06 lbs
Oil:                    2.88 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.64 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
Total:          240.29 g | 8.48 oz | 0.53 lbs  | TF = 0.0816

I preheated at 525 for an hour and then lit the broiler, using the foil trick. For some reason the broiler wouldn't stay lit, so I had to open the oven a few times while the pie was cooking. I baked this pie for 6.5 minutes, much longer than usual, because I wanted to get some great browning (and perhaps some blackening). The pie tasted great (similar to John's), but unfortunately, it was overcooked.

The sauce was too dry, this is easy to remedy by draining less water.
The cheese was good, because I used it right from the fridge with no warm up time (brick mozz from the supermarket).
The crust tasted great but was too dry and crunchy (see photo). This was my problem. Assuming I liked the 6.5 minute cook time (for browning), how can I make my dough hold up longer? Is it more water, lower temperature, or both? I want it to be more floppy--In between what I am getting and a street pizza--like the coal places.


Tyler


Tyler,

My suggestion is to increase the hydration to 65%, lower the oil amount down to 1.5%, which would give you an actual hydration of 66.5% since oil does count against the hydration value.

Regarding on how you could make your dough hold up longer...more water. The longer the bake time the more water evaporates, so if you have a hydration of let's say 62%-63% I'd recommend a bake time of about 4-6 mins on a steel plate at a temp of at least 600-625F in a home oven.

If your oven can't reach that temp and you're forced to use a lower temp, which in turn would also increase the baking time, you'd need to increase the hydration.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

scott123

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2011, 07:43:35 PM »
Tyler, we've talked about this before- you can't go below 65% with All Trumps.

I am no sourdough expert, but, even at a 6.5 minute bake, a 63% hydration All Trump dough shouldn't be that dry.  I can only surmise that the acid from the starter might be further developing an already high amount of gluten. I do know, for a fact, that if browning is your goal, you're shooting yourself in the foot by adding acid in the form of sourdough, because of it's anti-browning effects. If you're struggling with browning and are pushing the heat as high as your oven can go, you don't want to add a browning inhibitor like acid, but a browning accelerator such as sugar.

Refresh my memory on your kneading technique.  Earlier, you had mentioned 'windowpaning' the Caputo dough.  You're definitely not windowpaning the All Trumps, right? If you are, that could be another part of the problem. All Trumps doughs should never be kneaded until smooth, especially if they are to be fermented overnight. You want to knead it to a point where it looks like cottage cheese.

The next time you do the foil trick, could you take a few temp readings?  Basically most ovens cycle within about 25 degrees of what's set on the dial.  If you have it set at 525 with a 35 degree calibration, then that could mean that the oven is cycling between 535 and and 585. When it comes time to turn the broiler on, it might be while the oven is a bit cooler and, in turn, you get a bit more broiler time, or when it's a bit hotter, and you get less and the broiler cuts out mid bake.

The most important aspect to the foil pouch is that the air pockets have to be big.  Is there any chance, between the first time and the second time you used it, that it might have collapsed a bit? Next time, try freezing the foil pouch, and, also, if you have any more space around the probe, go thicker with the pouch.

Aluminum is pretty conductive, so we might have to go with something with a bit less conductivity, but I wanted to try aluminum foil first, since that's the simplest.

Something's been bugging me.  For the temperatures that you've been showing in your experiments, your plate is just not acting like a 1/2" plate.  I've seen the photos and it certainly looks like it's 1/2", but, just for the heck of it, could you measure it to confirm this?  It's acting a little like a 3/8" plate.

I've been holding off on this, but I think you might want to start considering lifting the plate and/or the shelf the plate is on a bit higher, to increase the broiler impact, because, even with the broiler on for the whole time, you're not getting a lot of color on the top of the pizza.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 07:46:59 PM by scott123 »


Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2011, 09:03:33 PM »
Thanks all for the comments. I am stuck making 11.5" pies because my steel is only 12" square. Chickenparm, that pie looked perfect.

Scott,
Quote
you can't go below 65% with All Trumps.
I realize I messed up with the 63%, I don't know where my mind was when I went to the calculator. I'll fix that in the next pie. Is there an upper limit to the hydration here?

Quote
All Trumps doughs should never be kneaded until smooth, especially if they are to be fermented overnight. You want to knead it to a point where it looks like cottage cheese.

I guess I am overkneading  :-\  I'll work less on my next dough. I definitely kneaded until smooth (like pasta dough smooth). Cottage cheese consistency sounds like only a minute or two of kneading-Would you agree?
 
As to the browning-I see what you are saying regarding the sugar and acid levels. I'd love to get a bit of black burnt crust, but that's not happening in this oven. I will definitely take some temperature readings on the next foil trick. I'll also re build the pouch. I don't have much extra space to make it any bigger. I did measure the plate and it sure is 1/2". Regardless of setting my oven at 525 or 550 (with the+35 calibration), the analog thermometer I have shows that the air temperature never gets past 550. The oven is just venting way too much heat. Its a shame I can't get the oven to stay on constantly-The oven beeps that its hit temperature and starts 20-ish minutes before the plate hits 600.

What other materials have you considered?

I am going to hold off on lifting the plate for the time being..There is so little clearance to begin with. I've got just under three inches between the top of the plate and the shielding on the broiler. .
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 09:07:03 PM by sum1else »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2011, 09:45:03 PM »
Tyler,
I just wanted to ask,does your oven vent any heat under one of the burners on top of the stove?

My electric oven has an exhaust pipe that vents heat up to exit under the rear burner element on top of the stove.I had to block it off with foil squashed up and shoved into it.

I was not sure if your oven had one.If it does,you can block it off to keep the heat inside from escaping too quickly.
 :)




-Bill

scott123

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2011, 04:08:46 AM »
Tyler, I think you got the 63% from me.  That's what I recommend for 12.5% protein flours/blends.  Speaking of which, I know the last blend attempt didn't pan out all that well, and you probably still have KA Italian/Caputo to use up and don't want to buy even more flour, but I'd still like to see you, at some point, give an All Trumps/All purpose 50/50 blend a shot.

It takes some time to fully understand all the ins and outs of gluten development.  Many breadmakers tend to be windowpaning-centric, which tends to instill the always windowpane philosophy in others. For emergency/quickly fermented, and, to a point, same day doughs, windowpaning is a good idea, but not for overnight.   Time = gluten development, so an overnight ferment is a kneading equivalent and most be compensated for at the beginning.

I hand knead relatively aggressively, but, for me, 2.5 minutes total mix/knead time gives me a cottage cheese appearance.

100% All Trumps doughs definitely have an upper limit to how much water you can use.  In my experience, as the hydration went up, assuming you could increase the heat accordingly, so too went the oven spring, but... the crumb would have a tendency to be leathery.  With your inability to go that much higher with the heat, I don't think you want to go a spec above 65%.  Water takes lots of energy to boil. The more water you have in the dough, the more heat you need to hit a target bake time.  The energy in your system, until we get a better mod, is relatively static.

With your protruding probe, you have a few more options than the people with clipped probes.

Here's one approach using moistened cake strips

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13018.msg128228.html#msg128228

You can also trim down/hollow out an insulating firebrick or take perlite/refractory and cast your own insulating firebrick sleeve.

You might also get away with wood.  Take a 1x1 and drill a hole down the middle. Soak it in water prior to using and cover with foil to deflect the heat.

https://www.google.com/search?q=oven+insulation&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G&tbs=p_ord:p&tbm=shop&ei=OXDkTuzjFcfQrQfInLWpCA&ved=0CAsQuw0oAQ

It's difficult to tell how large the $2 strip of oven insulation is, but you might be able to tuck this in foil and cover the probe with it.

Lastly, there's always the frozen towel trick.  Find something with the same shape as your probe, such as a pencil or a dowel. Rap a moist towel around it, cover it with foil and freeze. Once frozen, remove the object. When it comes time to bake the pizza, slip it over the probe.

Frozen towels can you get 100 to 150 degrees above peak, but that doesn't do much for you, because as you go up that much higher, the bottom will burn before the top.  The frozen towel would definitely work to make sure the broiler stays on, though. Rather than freezing the towel, you might be able to fold a moist towel into an aluminum foil pocket and keep your broiler on.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 07:10:02 AM by scott123 »

Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2011, 11:39:08 PM »
Quote
If it does,you can block it off to keep the heat inside from escaping too quickly.
My oven vents from the back of the unit, where the buttons are. Its a huge area (the entire width) that I don't think I can block off.

Scott, as always, thanks for the help and your particular attention to detail. I have plenty of flour at all times anyway. I have All Purpose flour here--I use it for cookies (either Gold Medal or KA, depending on which supermarket I visit). I use the KA Ital and Caputo for pastas. For the 50/50 AP/AT blend, how much water do you suggest?

Regarding knead time, I generally only make dough for one or two pies at a time. I would assume that smaller batch means shorter knead time?

Unfortunately its hard for me to build anything custom (firebrick/wood). Living in the city, I have no room for tools. I'll think about who/how I can get something fabricated. The Cake Strips look pretty good too, I may have to explore that first. My January vacation should produce a whole lot of pizza.


Tyler

scott123

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2011, 01:34:07 AM »
Tyler, 63% hydration is a pretty good jumping off for the AT/AP blend.

The size of the batch doesn't really impact knead time all that much. The goal should really be more appearance related than time.  Besides, if you are going with the blend, that will remove any major kneading concerns- knead the 100% AT overnight fermented dough to a cottage cheese appearance and the blend to somewhere between cottage cheese and smooth. If you overdo it and take the blend to smooth, it's not a huge deal.  12.5% protein is very forgiving. 14%, not so much.

The cake strips are aluminized, but I don't think that makes them that much more heat resistant than fabric.  It's the water that prevents them from burning, not the fabric.  I would just take regular cotton and make a foil covered pocket from that.  Ideally, if you could form the pocket so that you've got an inner layer of foil and an outer layer, with the fabric in between, preventing the two layers from contacting, that would be best, because the foil, if continuous, will just conduct the heat from outside to in.

Offline sum1else

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2012, 05:19:18 PM »
I'm back from a few weeks without [good] pizza, and I've been going crazy. John's this past friday. Dean's last night. Lucali is planned for tomorrow. Today, I cooked my own.

I've made two changes that Scott has suggested through the past weeks. The first is that I raised my plate by 1/4 inch toward the broiler. The second is that I made my own "cake strip" pouch for my temperature probe. I stitched the strip together and soaked it in water, then froze it around a spoon handle.

All Trumps Flour (100%):    156.95 g  |  5.54 oz | 0.35 lbs
Brita Water (65%):    102.02 g  |  3.6 oz | 0.22 lbs
IDY (.3%):    0.47 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.16 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
Salt (2%):    3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.56 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
Grapeseed Oil (2%):    3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.7 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Sugar (1.25%):    1.96 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.49 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
Total (170.55%):   267.67 g | 9.44 oz | 0.59 lbs | TF = 0.0909  11.5" diameter

I used Lioni brand fresh mozz from whole foods, and DOP tomatoes.

I used cold water and kneaded only for about 2 minutes. It was not very smooth, which was my goal. I let it rest on the counter covered for 22 hours, then punched down. 2 hours later I shaped the skin, and let it rise for an hour on my peel.

I fired the oven to 550 (+35 calibration, although the oven does not really pass 550). After 45 minutes I measured the stone surface at 605. I then put my cake strip pouch over the temperature probe and lit the broiler. It stayed on no problem. The pie cooked in 3:30. I missed launching the pie on to the plate and a portion of it was hanging over, resulting in the pie getting stretched out of shape. I spent about 30 seconds trying to fix it, letting out a ton of heat. This pie was awesome in every way. I got a great burnt spot on the rear portion of the pie. I'm very happy with this pie, and I'll continue using these baking methods. I still need to try an AP flour blend.





Offline chickenparm

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2012, 06:25:24 PM »
That pie looks soo good!
 8)

We need a drool smiley face.
 :)
-Bill

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: First try at NYC with 1/2" Steel Plate
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2012, 12:31:36 AM »
Great looking pie, Tyler!

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


 

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