Author Topic: New and Improved Mozza Recipe  (Read 13178 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2011, 07:36:39 PM »
Everything worked out very well.  I'm very pleased with the results.

Made 3 pizzas.


proxy,

Wow, they all look great.  :) Really nice crumb structure too!

Norma
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parallei

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2011, 11:30:34 PM »
TinRoof,

I gave the dough a try this evening.  It had a very nice taste from the sponge and, I think, the hint of rye.  I used a dark rye flour.  It surprised me that we picked up the taste of the small amount of rye.  It was just noticable in my pies and I would consider using again, in a small quantity, if i didn't feel like messing with a starter in other doughs.

I must have balled up the dough a bit late in the game as the dough was a bit elastic.  The first pie stuck just a bit to the peel and I got an oblong pie. Not the first time that has happened!  Also, I forgot to oil the rim prior to baking.  I'll try this again, but may cut back on the hydration a bit and possibly try it as a straight dough with a 48 hr cold fermentation.  Thanks for posting the recipe....

Paul

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2011, 10:08:27 AM »
TinRoof,

I gave the dough a try this evening.  It had a very nice taste from the sponge and, I think, the hint of rye.  I used a dark rye flour.  It surprised me that we picked up the taste of the small amount of rye.  It was just noticable in my pies and I would consider using again, in a small quantity, if i didn't feel like messing with a starter in other doughs.

I must have balled up the dough a bit late in the game as the dough was a bit elastic.  The first pie stuck just a bit to the peel and I got an oblong pie. Not the first time that has happened!  Also, I forgot to oil the rim prior to baking.  I'll try this again, but may cut back on the hydration a bit and possibly try it as a straight dough with a 48 hr cold fermentation.  Thanks for posting the recipe....

Paul

Paul, those pizzas look delicious.

I've had the same problem with the dough being tight, and it really is just a question of giving the dough time to relax more.  But sometimes you can't wait (e.g., hungry people staring at you, wondering when the pizza will be ready...)

Glad you tried it out and liked it!

Regards,  

TinRoof
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 10:13:59 AM by tinroofrusted »

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2011, 10:11:27 AM »
Everything worked out very well.  I'm very pleased with the results.

Made 3 pizzas.

grilled eggplant + red sweet pepper + anchovies
grilled brussels sprouts + bacon
cheese + basil, mixed

Those look like they came straight out of the oven at Mozza.  You pretty much nailed it.  Well done! I do love the flavor of this dough, but I never thought that maybe it is the rye that gives it that special flavor. I do think the barley malt gives it a bit of flavor too.  You can smell the barley malt when the dough is rising, that's for sure. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2011, 01:43:43 PM »
Thanks for the improved recipe and I think sourdough starter is the great additions and I will always use it.

Offline FVG

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2011, 05:07:50 PM »
Tried this today after 2 bakes with Nancy's original recipe. Made 2 changes though:

Used 1/2 teaspoon of yeast in the dough after the overnight rise with the sponge
Used 00 flour in place of the all purpose
No Sour Dough starter

Overall had a bit better flavor and browned up better than Nancy's original recipe - cooking in roughly 6 minutes at 550 degrees. How this springs in the oven is quite amazing. Good crunch to the crust but very light and airy on the inside. Biggest challenge is working with the dough - while it stretches fairly easily it also sticks to the counter almost instantly unless a fair amount of flour is used.

Will definitely use this recipe again.

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2011, 09:43:00 AM »
Tried this today after 2 bakes with Nancy's original recipe. Made 2 changes though:

Used 1/2 teaspoon of yeast in the dough after the overnight rise with the sponge
Used 00 flour in place of the all purpose
No Sour Dough starter

Overall had a bit better flavor and browned up better than Nancy's original recipe - cooking in roughly 6 minutes at 550 degrees. How this springs in the oven is quite amazing. Good crunch to the crust but very light and airy on the inside. Biggest challenge is working with the dough - while it stretches fairly easily it also sticks to the counter almost instantly unless a fair amount of flour is used.

Will definitely use this recipe again.

Very nice pies, F.  I'm glad you tried it out, especially after having made the original recipe a couple of times.  I've got a batch of dough percolating on the counter right now for later on this week. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2011, 10:03:42 AM »
I also have half of my dough in the fridge. How long do you think this can stay in the fridge safely?  And how does dough degrade and spoil in the fridge?

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2011, 10:22:43 PM »
I also have half of my dough in the fridge. How long do you think this can stay in the fridge safely?  And how does dough degrade and spoil in the fridge?

It's not going to spoil per-se. At least not before it becomes unusable for other reasons. The yeast will continue to consume it and enzymes will break down the gluten. Sooner or later, it will start to loose its ability to hold water and the water it releases will make it wet and slimy. It will get weak, and if it doesn't fall apart in the fridge, it probably will when baking. I'm guessing you'll see noticeable degradation by the 7th day. Maybe sooner. Though I seem to remember people using dough much older than that.
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parallei

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2011, 10:54:39 PM »
Proxy,

I've never let an almost 80% HR dough go more than 24 hours or so.  No reason in particular, just have never done it.  Curious to see your results....go for 72 hrs!


Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 12:19:28 AM »
i baked one today, took it out of the fridge, let it rest for 1 hour and shaped and baked.  It wasn't as good as the first batch. The flavor wasn't that good, wasn't as creamy, and crust didn't brown as readily. It seemed the acidity was higher than first batch (perhaps due to the sourdough starter working on the dough in the fridge)

Offline stephent

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2012, 03:13:29 PM »
I understand using less yeast if the rise is 18 hrs. as oppose to the much shorter version in the cookbook.  But I think the cookbook calls for cake/compressed yeast.  Is the consensus that some other yeast would be better for the longer-rise modification?  Also, would you recommend increasing the yeast if I don't use a sourdough starter?

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2012, 03:39:35 PM »
Last weekend I made 2 batches of Nancy's dough based on tinroofrusted's improvements.

It didn't turn out as nice as the previous attempt.

Crust wasn't as tasty
The crust didn't spring up as quickly
The crust wasn't crusty & chrispy
The crust bubbled up averagely, but not browning with texture like a basketball (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9825/79595926.jpg)
Next day the remaining crusts didn't taste so good, i threw it out, last time (in the above photo, I ate all left over crust next day)

I am not sure where I went wrong.

I made the poolish at midnight. Let it sit at room temperate, nicely all bubbled up, Mixed the rest of the ingredients 12 hours later. Kneaded the dough like I did last time, in KA.
I let it rise for 3-4 hours , until it doubled up in size, maybe a bit more than double

Cut into 6 pieces each batch; each peace kneaded/pinched unto itself.  Started baking 3 hours later.  First batch had a lot of gas and bubbles when shaping the pies.

But flavor wasn't to die for.  It tasted flat.

One thing I did different, and perhaps it was the culprit, I added a little more sourdough starter than last time. Instead of 1tbsp I added about 3-4tbsp of my sourdough starter, because I thought maybe a little more sourdough flavor would help.  Could this be the reason things didn't go as well as last time?

I'm also curious about the interaction between overnight poolish (with 1/4 tsp of yeast) when mixed with fed sourdough.  How do these two ferment together?

Another problem was that my dough was getting too thin in the center, so once or twice the tomato sauce burnt onto the parchment paper on stone.

I don't know, but it is it possible that I let the dough rise too long after cutting into 6 pieces? maybe after cutting and shaping into 6 i should have not let it go more than 1.5-2hrs?

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2012, 06:15:35 PM »
Hi Proxy.  It seems as though you did everything right. Hard to day why it didn't come out that good.  Sorry you had a less than great experience. 

Best regards,

TinRoof

Offline alrafa

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2012, 08:43:35 AM »
looking really good, this should be a perfect pizza.  :pizza:

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2012, 05:46:52 PM »
I gave it another go today and it came out good again.

Tinroof, do you have any other pizza dough recipe that you consider to be superior to the mozza dough?

Offline Bende

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2012, 05:28:10 PM »
Tinroofrusted - thanks for the recipe.  I've got some healthy starter dough for the first time and I'm giving this recipe a shot.

Do you find that the dough is unusually wet throughout the folding process?  I've had this issue using the original Mozza recipe, and have found the wet dough difficult to work with.

Thanks,

Ben


Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2012, 10:41:45 AM »
baked another batch last weekend. Came out good, but couldn't get that super high cornice rise like my first attempt.

I have a question:

what happens when you add both 1 tsp instant yeast & 1-2 tbsp sour dough starer to the dough? How do these two yeasts interact with each other?

Tinroofrusted, have you experimented with any other improvements since you started this thread?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2012, 11:01:15 AM »
I have a question:

what happens when you add both 1 tsp instant yeast & 1-2 tbsp sour dough starer to the dough? How do these two yeasts interact with each other?

proxy,

In my experience, the commercial yeast will almost always overtake the sourdough starter, to the point where you may not even detect the effects of the starter, as I noted, for example, in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5515.msg46657/topicseen.html#msg46657. Also, Professor Raymond Calvel, in his book, The Taste of Bread, refers to a combination of starter and commercial yeast that he calls a "hybrid" preferment. As noted in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8011.msg69016/topicseen.html#msg69016, the amount of commercial yeast is kept small as not to overtake the preferment. If my experience is any guide, in your case, one teaspoon of IDY will completely overwhelm 1-2 tablespoons of sourdough starter.

Peter

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2012, 12:01:23 PM »
Pete-zza,

and when IDY overtakes sourdough starter, what will the subsequent effect (or side-effects) be on the pizza crust?

I also wonder if the flavor of the sourdough starter is still a good idea for this pizza dough (I believe tin added sourdough starter to create some complexity in flavor). I have a hard time remembering the difference of the crust flavor with and without the sourdough starter.  Also, what would happen if I increased sourdough starter to 1 cup (with 1tsp of IDY)

I wish I could run a test kitchen and try out multiple variations and taste-test side by side, but for now have to settle with these hypothetical scenarios and your insights :)


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2012, 01:07:26 PM »
proxy,

The use of both a starter and commercial yeast is quite common. Jeff Varasano has described doing this, and I recall speaking with a baker at the Sullivan Street Bakery in NYC who told me that they used some commercial yeast along with their natural starter. I believe that it was a belt-and-suspenders type of thing to get more lift in the dough, or in case the natural starter didn't work as intended.

It's been a long time since I have used natural starters, either alone or with commercial yeast, but my recollection is that the doughs I made that had both forms of yeast produced finished crusts in which I could not detect the presence of the starter. However, we do have some members, like Chau, whom I believe uses both forms of yeast concurrently and who may be able to comment on their results. In your case, if you are using a full cup of starter material and that amount represents a large percent of the formula flour (e.g., around 30-40%), and if your starter is in good shape, you may not need any commercial yeast. According to Ed Wood, in his book, Classic Sourdoughs, one cup of starter culture weighs around 9 ounces. If you are using the original recipe that Tin Roof referenced, with 26 ounces of flour, the cup of starter culture would be about 35% of the total formula flour. If my memory is correct, that would be about the amount that Nancy Silverton recommends to make a basic country white bread in her book Breads from the La Brea Bakery (page 40). Having made that bread, with no commercial yeast, I can tell you that if your starter is in the proper condition, you should get a highly detectable sourdough flavor in the finished crust. However, that flavor is likely to be far more pronounced than a crust made using a much smaller amount of starter and a different fermentation protocol.

Sometimes you just have to conduct experiments to see what you get. Those experiments will be your best teacher.

Peter

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2012, 05:55:45 PM »
Peter,

thank you, you're a walking pizza encyclopedia.

With the rising popularity of baking steels (thx to Myhrvold), do you think this dough can benefit from it? or should it only be used with Neapolitan pizzas?

Offline hotsawce

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2015, 03:22:17 AM »
Reviving an old thread here, but I think it's worth it.

http://www.eater.com/2014/3/21/6263259/fennel-sausage-panna-pizza-at-las-pizzeria-mozza

Great resource for those wanting to make Mozza Pizza. The big thing? The oven is at 560 to 570 degrees and the pies bake in about 9 minutes.

Also, at the end of this video you can get a great sense for the pizza if you've never had it. It's more crisp than anything...nothing like a NY style pizza. You can also catch a glimpse at how light and airy the crumb is.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 03:26:46 AM by hotsawce »

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2015, 09:25:10 AM »
Thanks for posting this. It raises a couple questions however: 1) we've seen Nancy say it's a 2-day dough. Both this video and the article say 1-day? 2) 9-12 minutes seems really long for 570-570F. Possible, but surprising nonetheless. Along the same lines, in the video, you can see 12 balls in each tray, and there are 15 trays being delivered to the restaurant. That's 180 balls, or 27-36 hours of total cooking time. Say it's 10 minutes on average, that's 30 total hours of cooking time - or 8 hours of oven time with an average of 3.75 pies in the oven for every second of those 8 hours, again it's plausible, but it seems unlikely.  Plenty of upscale places serve 180+ pies/day (and I have no doubt Mozza can sell that many or more) but pretty much all of them are baking them a lot faster than 9 minutes.
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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 10:31:49 AM »
In this video at 2:34, you can see the rye flour and barley malt added. It looks pretty yellow in color which makes me think it's non-diastatic as previously speculated? Thoughts?

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