Author Topic: New and Improved Mozza Recipe  (Read 12541 times)

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Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2012, 05:46:52 PM »
I gave it another go today and it came out good again.

Tinroof, do you have any other pizza dough recipe that you consider to be superior to the mozza dough?

Offline Bende

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2012, 05:28:10 PM »
Tinroofrusted - thanks for the recipe.  I've got some healthy starter dough for the first time and I'm giving this recipe a shot.

Do you find that the dough is unusually wet throughout the folding process?  I've had this issue using the original Mozza recipe, and have found the wet dough difficult to work with.

Thanks,

Ben

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2012, 10:41:45 AM »
baked another batch last weekend. Came out good, but couldn't get that super high cornice rise like my first attempt.

I have a question:

what happens when you add both 1 tsp instant yeast & 1-2 tbsp sour dough starer to the dough? How do these two yeasts interact with each other?

Tinroofrusted, have you experimented with any other improvements since you started this thread?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2012, 11:01:15 AM »
I have a question:

what happens when you add both 1 tsp instant yeast & 1-2 tbsp sour dough starer to the dough? How do these two yeasts interact with each other?

proxy,

In my experience, the commercial yeast will almost always overtake the sourdough starter, to the point where you may not even detect the effects of the starter, as I noted, for example, in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5515.msg46657/topicseen.html#msg46657. Also, Professor Raymond Calvel, in his book, The Taste of Bread, refers to a combination of starter and commercial yeast that he calls a "hybrid" preferment. As noted in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8011.msg69016/topicseen.html#msg69016, the amount of commercial yeast is kept small as not to overtake the preferment. If my experience is any guide, in your case, one teaspoon of IDY will completely overwhelm 1-2 tablespoons of sourdough starter.

Peter

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2012, 12:01:23 PM »
Pete-zza,

and when IDY overtakes sourdough starter, what will the subsequent effect (or side-effects) be on the pizza crust?

I also wonder if the flavor of the sourdough starter is still a good idea for this pizza dough (I believe tin added sourdough starter to create some complexity in flavor). I have a hard time remembering the difference of the crust flavor with and without the sourdough starter.  Also, what would happen if I increased sourdough starter to 1 cup (with 1tsp of IDY)

I wish I could run a test kitchen and try out multiple variations and taste-test side by side, but for now have to settle with these hypothetical scenarios and your insights :)


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2012, 01:07:26 PM »
proxy,

The use of both a starter and commercial yeast is quite common. Jeff Varasano has described doing this, and I recall speaking with a baker at the Sullivan Street Bakery in NYC who told me that they used some commercial yeast along with their natural starter. I believe that it was a belt-and-suspenders type of thing to get more lift in the dough, or in case the natural starter didn't work as intended.

It's been a long time since I have used natural starters, either alone or with commercial yeast, but my recollection is that the doughs I made that had both forms of yeast produced finished crusts in which I could not detect the presence of the starter. However, we do have some members, like Chau, whom I believe uses both forms of yeast concurrently and who may be able to comment on their results. In your case, if you are using a full cup of starter material and that amount represents a large percent of the formula flour (e.g., around 30-40%), and if your starter is in good shape, you may not need any commercial yeast. According to Ed Wood, in his book, Classic Sourdoughs, one cup of starter culture weighs around 9 ounces. If you are using the original recipe that Tin Roof referenced, with 26 ounces of flour, the cup of starter culture would be about 35% of the total formula flour. If my memory is correct, that would be about the amount that Nancy Silverton recommends to make a basic country white bread in her book Breads from the La Brea Bakery (page 40). Having made that bread, with no commercial yeast, I can tell you that if your starter is in the proper condition, you should get a highly detectable sourdough flavor in the finished crust. However, that flavor is likely to be far more pronounced than a crust made using a much smaller amount of starter and a different fermentation protocol.

Sometimes you just have to conduct experiments to see what you get. Those experiments will be your best teacher.

Peter

Offline proxy

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2012, 05:55:45 PM »
Peter,

thank you, you're a walking pizza encyclopedia.

With the rising popularity of baking steels (thx to Myhrvold), do you think this dough can benefit from it? or should it only be used with Neapolitan pizzas?

Offline hotsawce

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2015, 03:22:17 AM »
Reviving an old thread here, but I think it's worth it.

http://www.eater.com/2014/3/21/6263259/fennel-sausage-panna-pizza-at-las-pizzeria-mozza

Great resource for those wanting to make Mozza Pizza. The big thing? The oven is at 560 to 570 degrees and the pies bake in about 9 minutes.

Also, at the end of this video you can get a great sense for the pizza if you've never had it. It's more crisp than anything...nothing like a NY style pizza. You can also catch a glimpse at how light and airy the crumb is.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 03:26:46 AM by hotsawce »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2015, 09:25:10 AM »
Thanks for posting this. It raises a couple questions however: 1) we've seen Nancy say it's a 2-day dough. Both this video and the article say 1-day? 2) 9-12 minutes seems really long for 570-570F. Possible, but surprising nonetheless. Along the same lines, in the video, you can see 12 balls in each tray, and there are 15 trays being delivered to the restaurant. That's 180 balls, or 27-36 hours of total cooking time. Say it's 10 minutes on average, that's 30 total hours of cooking time - or 8 hours of oven time with an average of 3.75 pies in the oven for every second of those 8 hours, again it's plausible, but it seems unlikely.  Plenty of upscale places serve 180+ pies/day (and I have no doubt Mozza can sell that many or more) but pretty much all of them are baking them a lot faster than 9 minutes.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 10:31:49 AM »
In this video at 2:34, you can see the rye flour and barley malt added. It looks pretty yellow in color which makes me think it's non-diastatic as previously speculated? Thoughts?

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Offline hotsawce

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2015, 12:22:06 PM »
I think the article also says there is a preferment used...so maybe it takes 1 day to make the preferment and the final dough sits for one day? In any event I would think it's heavily fermented given the micro blisters on the cornicione.

I should also mention in the "Hanging With Matt Harris" video, they zoom in when cutting the pizza and I could get a read on the oven temp in the Osteria; it looked to be 530 up top and only 513-515 on the floor.

I will say the pizza was very, very crisp. No tip sag, an a cornicione that shattered when you bit into it. You could see the stringy, open gluten strands, almost "crystalized."

I would love to get close to this in my home oven. It really was one of the best pizzas I've ever had.

Thanks for posting this. It raises a couple questions however: 1) we've seen Nancy say it's a 2-day dough. Both this video and the article say 1-day? 2) 9-12 minutes seems really long for 570-570F. Possible, but surprising nonetheless. Along the same lines, in the video, you can see 12 balls in each tray, and there are 15 trays being delivered to the restaurant. That's 180 balls, or 27-36 hours of total cooking time. Say it's 10 minutes on average, that's 30 total hours of cooking time - or 8 hours of oven time with an average of 3.75 pies in the oven for every second of those 8 hours, again it's plausible, but it seems unlikely.  Plenty of upscale places serve 180+ pies/day (and I have no doubt Mozza can sell that many or more) but pretty much all of them are baking them a lot faster than 9 minutes.

Offline carl333

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2015, 12:40:24 PM »
I would have liked to try this but i don't have wheat germ nor rye flour.
Carl

Offline jsaras

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2015, 12:43:52 PM »
I can confirm the long bake times.  I recall it being about 8 minutes.  I also recall that the temperature was lower, to the point of being surprising for a WFO.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2015, 12:48:59 PM »
I think the article also says there is a preferment used...so maybe it takes 1 day to make the preferment and the final dough sits for one day? In any event I would think it's heavily fermented given the micro blisters on the cornicione.

According to the article which is consistent with what is said in the video, "The entire dough-making process takes about 10 - 12 hours, and the dough rests overnight before being delivered to Pizzeria Mozza."

Sounds like ~24 hours?

With respect to the blisters, they paint the cornicione with oil. Long fermentation may encourage blistering, but things like oil on the surface or baking in high humidity have a far more powerful effect in my experience.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2015, 12:51:22 PM »
I would have liked to try this but i don't have wheat germ nor rye flour.

I'd be surprised if you can't find both (even in Canada), but you are talking about the Mozza cookbook recipe - not the pizzeria.
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Offline PrimeRib

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2015, 01:00:33 PM »

I would have liked to try this but i don't have wheat germ nor rye flour.

I have always suspected that Mellow Mushroom uses some rye. Anyone out there that has had both care to comment? 

Offline carl333

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2015, 01:06:31 PM »
I'd be surprised if you can't find both (even in Canada), but you are talking about the Mozza cookbook recipe - not the pizzeria.

Sure Craig, they have that here. I just didn't care to buy a bag of both products that I don't use and that is just used in minute qtys. After a surch for something equiv. I found this. 

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8539.0/topicseen.html

100% hyydration. This is going to be fun!!
Carl

Offline hotsawce

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2015, 01:55:59 PM »
I wonder if it's really 560-570 degrees.

I also have to wonder what the total hydration of the dough is. I know Matt or Nancy has mentioned it's higher because 1) The dough has more structure and 2) It bakes for a while.

I would go so far to say Mozza is the best pizza I've ever had next to UPN...and I mean it. Those pies I had haunt me.

I can confirm the long bake times.  I recall it being about 8 minutes.  I also recall that the temperature was lower, to the point of being surprising for a WFO.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2015, 02:00:34 PM »
Sure Craig, they have that here. I just didn't care to buy a bag of both products that I don't use and that is just used in minute qtys. After a surch for something equiv. I found this. 

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8539.0/topicseen.html

100% hyydration. This is going to be fun!!

Working with ~100%HR dough (or 95% as the case may be)  is not always a lot of fun. Notice that member Burnt Edges is using a Superpeel to launch it.

Before you jump all the way to 95%, I'd encourage you to try the Mozza formula and just leave out the rye and wheat germ.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: New and Improved Mozza Recipe
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2015, 02:03:11 PM »
I also have to wonder what the total hydration of the dough is.

From this video, I'd guess mid to upper 70's.



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