Author Topic: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady  (Read 1244 times)

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Offline kerrymarcy

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conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« on: November 26, 2011, 06:33:06 PM »
Hi there!

I want to attempt to make the dough recipe found at Molino Caputo  http://www.molinocaputo.it/eng/homeEng.htm The recipe calls for "fresh or natural brewer's yeast".  I need to know if you can substitute ady instead of brewer's yeast.  If so, what would be the conversion if they call for 2-3g.  If anyone could help me, I would be extremely grateful  Thanks!!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 11:25:36 PM by kerrymarcy »


Offline Jackie Tran

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Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 06:55:24 PM »
Thank you for your response!

This will be very helpful in the future.  I am still not clear how they treat brewer's yeast.  Is brewer's yeast like cake yeast in these calculations?  Thanks again!!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2011, 07:05:59 PM »
Hmmm, I haven't use brewers yeast.  Most folks on this forum use baker's yeast or cake yeast for that style of pizza, but IDY  or ADY will suffice.  You'll have to just start with an amount and adjust that to desired time of fermentation and temperature.  

I'm away from my main computer, but maybe one of the regulars can advise on an amount of CY, ADY, or IDY to try.

When do you want to make the dough and when do you want to use it by?  what is the temp in your kitchen or where you will be fermenting the dough?

Chau
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 09:32:40 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2011, 07:31:10 PM »
Thanks again Jackie,

I think that I will use cake yeast instead of ady.  It seems that most people prefer cake yeast for one reason or another - I'm not going to question this as most of you in this forum are well ahead of me in both experience and knowledge.  I am fairly confident that I can maintain the required 77 degrees for fermentation. I would also like to mention that I have only a conventional convection oven.  I hope in the very near future that I can talk my wife into buying an outside stone oven.Thanks!!

parallei

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 09:30:26 PM »
I think you'll find that fresh yeast (cake yeast) can be called "lievito di birra" in Italy.  Thus the "beer yeast" confusion.  But I could be could be wrong...........

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 09:38:40 PM »
KM, I followed the link that you posted in the first post and did not see the recipe.  I get just a blank page.  Can you post the recipe you are wanting to use?

I found this little tidbit about Brewer's yeast on the net...

Brewer's yeast is a type of fungus formally known as Saccharomyces cervisiae. Along with other Saccharomyces species, brewer's yeast is used to brew beer and bake some breads, and can also be used as a nutritional supplement in an inactive form. Like other yeasts, brewer's yeast will ferment carbohydrates when it comes into contact with them, forming a froth of carbon dioxide which can ferment grains into beer and cause bread to rise. When used as a dietary supplement, brewer's yeast can provide the body with a number of essential vitamins and minerals including vitamin B. While brewer's yeast can be used to bake bread, most bakers use baker's yeast specifically, a sweet and less bitter culture of Sacchraomyces.

KM - if you can find a block of CY, you can divide that block into 4-6 pieces.  You can place one of the pieces into a small glass jar and keep in the fridge to use.  It should last upto 4 weeks and possibly beyond.   With the remaining pieces, double wrap in wax paper and then into individual freezer bags.  They should keep well in the freezer for a very long time.  You can just thaw each piece out as you need.  CY is also very cheap so you can just toss out what you don't use and keep buying more if you would like. 


Chau
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 09:52:52 PM by Jackie Tran »

parallei

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 10:45:40 PM »
I think you'll find that most commercial yeast for baking is Saccharomyces Cerevisiae.....but I could be wrong.

Beer, birra, cerveza, Cerevisiae.........

Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 11:09:48 PM »
JT,
I really appreciate your research.  I found something similar to that as well.  I don't know if I'm making a big deal out of this or what.  Is it imperative to use brewer's yeast in this recipe or is it just a matter of making an appropriate substitution to a different strain (CY)?
Your suggestion on dividing the CY up is a great one-one that I will incorporate in my pizza-making protocol. Also, here is the link to Molino Caputo's web site.       http://www.molinocaputo.it/eng/homeEng.htm        when you get there just click on the recipe (Chef hat icon) and the dough recipe will appear along with dough methodology.  I thank you!

KM
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 11:13:37 PM by kerrymarcy »

parallei

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 11:39:05 PM »
The yeast the Molino site is calling for IS CY.......the Italians call it brewers yeast (lievito di birra).


Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 12:26:17 AM »
parallei,

Thanks for your response.  I suspected that this may have been the case. How did you find that out?
I feel a bit more confident that I heading in the right direction now!  So I go ahead and use 2-3g of CY per the recipe?  Have you or anyone else you know ever tried this dough recipe?  I would like to know if this recipe yields a good pie.  Thanks much!!  

KM




























« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 12:33:52 AM by kerrymarcy »

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 09:30:47 AM »
Kerry, the recipe that you ask about is a "fairly common" example of Neapolitan pizza. For example :http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg160236.html#msg160236

You must have very high heat to cook this pizza with, though.  850* would be a bare minimum to turn out something you might consider good.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2011, 10:29:39 AM »
JD, thanks for your input. Unfortunately,  I understand that I am at a total disadvantage by only having a conventional oven, but I still like to experiment with different doughs.  Maybe you or someone else can suggest some winning recipes using a conventional oven (My oven gets up to about 540 degrees).  I am really thinking about rigging something like the "black egg" or something similar.  Also, if anybody has suggestions in this area, please feel free to keep me posted. thanks all!!

KM
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 10:39:18 AM by kerrymarcy »

buceriasdon

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2011, 11:44:40 AM »
Kerry, I have never used 00 Caputo but from what I have read the consensus is the Caputo does not brown well in a regular oven so to get a browner crust means baking longer which leads to a tougher crust than what might be desirable. You might want to experiment with placing the pizza under the broiler to finish browning up for a bit, brush the rim with oil, or try some blends with other flours.
Don

Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2011, 01:25:46 PM »
Thanks Don, I will try your tips you suggested.  I will also play around with different flours and oven temps(Broiler)  I guess if this recipe does not come out as desired, I can only improve from there!!!!  Thanks

buceriasdon

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2011, 01:39:09 PM »
Kerry, Do you have a pizza stone and where is your broiler located?
Don

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 03:01:41 PM »
KM, I wasn't able to see the website and recipe before because my antivirus software kept blocking the page for some reason. 

The recipe calls for yeast, and doesn't specify but they are likely referring to baker's yeast or CY and not brewer's yeast.  It is given as 3-4gm per 1.7-1.8 kg of flour which is 0.17 - 0.22% (baker's percents) of the flour weight.   How long it takes the dough to ferment is a relative value.  This depends on several factors such as ambient temp, salt amounts, hydration of the dough, strength of flour, volume of dough, type of yeast, strength of yeast, etc.

According to the website and for that particular formula, the dough should take between 8-12 hours to leaven at 25C (77F).  If I am using 0.2% CY at a room temp of ~75F, it will take my dough about 12hours before it is ready to use.  Looking back at my notes, I have a relative value of 0.2% ADY and around 0.15% IDY as giving approximately a 12hour fermentation time as well.  Again these numbers are relative so you'll have to learn to watch the dough and make adjustments accordingly.

KM, I'm not a pizza authority but I have spent some time in the kitchen playing around with the different flours, blends of flours, and various ovens and oven setups.  As others mention, it is very difficult to make a Neapolitan (NP) style pizza in the home oven.  It's not an ideal setup, but that hasn't stopped some of us from trying.  You can read through Omid's excellent thread that member Jet_Deck linked to and see if you can get some ideas.   There are 2 other threads with different member's results in a home oven.  On the home page at the bottom is a google search box.  Search for "Nearlypolitan" and "almost-wfo-politan" and have a read for some ideas.

The LBE will get you almost there.  There are several threads on the LBE as well, and you can get a better idea about what is possible and what is not. 

Good luck,
Chau

Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: conversion of natural or brewer's yeast to ady
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2011, 03:45:02 PM »
Chau and Don,

I really appreciate all of your input and research you have done for me.  I guess this is what drives this forum- People like you!!  I understand the interpretation in this recipe a bit more as both Don and Chau are in agreement with each other.  Chau thanks for the search words, I will definitely check these out.  Don, I do have many stones in different shapes and sizes.  My broiler is on the top of my oven.  Also, just wondering if I can use one of those "Dorm pizza ovens" used for making frozen pizza.  Stupid question?  :-D
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 03:54:46 PM by kerrymarcy »