Steel Plate Attempt

[parallei]

Paul,

For hockman4357 to be able to use the expanded dough calculating tool to make pizzas like yours, he will have to know either the dough ball weight or a thickness factor and pizza size. I did not see that information specified in the post where you set forth the baker's percents. 

Peter


True!  I used a TF of 0.08......

Thanks Peter

[hockman4357]

Thanks for all the suggestions and advise!  When making a 16" New York style pizza, would the ball weight be best at 18oz or 20oz?  I am really starting to get into this!

[parallei]

Well, the area of a 16-inch pizza is 201 in2.

Since you know the TF = the dough weight in oz divided by the pizza area in in2:

TF for 18 oz = 18/201 = 0.089 say 0.09

Tf for 20 oz = 20/201 = 0.099 say 0.10

I'd go with the 0.09 or better yet 0.08.  But is up to you.......

For TF = 0.08; x oz/201in2 = 0.08, so x oz = 16 oz of dough.

[shuboyje]

I always work in dough ball weight, but just converted that to thickness factor and found I've been using 0.078 for my New york style pies on the steel plate and I'm very happy with the results. 

[hockman4357]

I'm about ready to launch on Paul's dough recipe.  Is there an alternative to the Danish Dough Whisk?  Where is a good place to buy one and what size works best?

[parallei]

Is there an alternative to the Danish Dough Whisk?

Your hands.  You could do it in a stand mixer too.  Just don't over knead. Anything will work.  I just happen to like the Danish Dough Whisk or my hands and don't use a mixer too often these days.

Where is a good place to buy one and what size works best?

The King Arthur Catalog or web site.  Mine is about 15-inhes long.  Eleven of those inches are the handle.  I don't know if it is the best, but it works for the smaller batches I do.

Good luck!

[hockman4357]

I think I'll order a Danish Dough Whisk.  In the meantime, I'll probably use my KitchenAid Stand Up Mixer.  I'm thinking that the Flat Beater attachment is more like the Danish Dough Whisk than the Dough Hook attachment.  Do you concur?

[parallei]

I'm thinking that the Flat Beater attachment is more like the Danish Dough Whisk than the Dough Hook attachment.  Do you concur?

Yep.

[hockman4357]

Put together a batch of dough last night.  It was the first time that I actually weighed out the ingredients.  Are ya'll weighing out the water for the dough recipes?  The calculator called for 390.91 g (64% hydration) of water but my digital scale required way more water than necessary to reach 390.91 g.  Just wondering if water is usually done in volume rather than weight.  If not, maybe I'm just using my digital scale incorrectly.

[parallei]

Yes, weigh the water that's what the weights are for........

but my digital scale required way more water than necessary to reach 390.91 g.

Not sure what you mean.....391 grams is about 14 oz (weight) of water, a cup of water (8 oz volume) weighs 8.3454 oz.  So did you add about 14/8.345 or 1.7 cups water (volume)?  Thats between 1 and 1 3/4 cups?  I'd trust the scale unless you have reason to doubt it.  Then again, maybe you just messed something up like we all do on occasion.  

[breadman_nz]

We'll assume you're not making pizza on the moon, or Jupiter, or some other environment where the water's mass is not the same weight as in earth's gravity. Either that, or your scales are bung (probably more likely).

Don't forget, scales have a maximum weight they will record up to - and your bowl + flour + other ingredients may have gone over the scale's maximum weight (although most will simply 'error').

Yes, weight is everything.... weigh, weigh and weigh again!

[hockman4357]

Thanks for all the responses!  I got it all worked out and the dough turned out nicely.  I am still exploring the best way to cook the pizzas in my oven.  The broiler tends to go off and on fairly quickly, but I'll work through it.  I'll post some pictures soon of my initial attempts.  I am really enjoying the learning process!!!

[FJPhil]

I don't mean to thread hijack, but since this is the current ongoing thread on steel plates, I figured Id throw my questions in here:

1. My oven will fit a 17" x 17" steel plate, but Im worried about the weight.  I would rather not put it up on a shelf and then have it come crashing down through the oven.  Is it acceptable to just place the plate on the oven floor? When I used my pizza stone, I placed it on the floor as well.  The trick I learned was to simply bake it on the oven floor for a few mins (checking the underside), and then move the pizza up to a shelf below the broiler to finish the bake.

2. If I put the steel plate on the floor, can I just leave it there constantly? I never took my pizza stone out of the oven and had no issues.

3. Does steel smell or smoke excessively?  Just based on previous experiences with seasoning cast iron and carbon steel, I'm kinda worried about smoking myself out of the house.

Thanks for the advice!

[buceriasdon]

FGPhil, No, the steel plate surface will season itself through use. There should not be a problem with the bottom sticking as you would with an unseasoned cast iron skillet and cooking an egg in it. Your baking not frying. I live next to the ocean and I have to season my steel plates or I would have serious rust problems. I would scrape off any spills avoiding using water unless I dried it well and then heated it up to drive off any moisture that may become a problem.
Don

[parallei]

FJPhil,

A 17" x 17" x 1/2" steel plate will weigh about 41 lbs.  5 gallons of water will weigh about 41.7 lbs.  You could test first.....

[scott123]

Water is a pretty good idea for testing the weight bearing capacity of the shelf- as long as you use a wide/deep container that spreads the weight out to something close to that 17" x 17" dimension. A tall container will focus more weight on a smaller portion of the shelf and further stress it.

40 lbs., spread out over a wide area, is not that much weight for a typical oven shelf.  Think 28ish lb. Thanksgiving turkey + pan + veggies and you're in that ball park. It would be kind of ridiculous for an oven manufacturer to produce a shelf that can't support a big Thanksgiving turkey.

Phil, it's pretty rare that I say this, but there's a chance you might not need 1/2" steel plate.  From reading your older posts, it looks like your goal is primarily to reproduce Dewey's pizza at home.  Dewey's, being a NY/American hybrid, doesn't need the fast bake times of 1/2" steel. 1/2" steel is only if you have an inclination to make an authentic NY pizza.

What kind of stone are you working with now?  I've seen screens in some of your older posts- before you take the steel plate plunge, I'd do two things:

1. Remove the screen from the equation and learn how to master a peel

2. Go to Dewey's, and, if possible, time a bake.

Once I know their bake time, I'll have a much better idea of what stone to recommend.  There's a chance you could get away with 3/8" steel plate or possibly even 1/4".  There's also a chance you might be able to get away with something as inexpensive as quarry tiles.  Maybe.  Generally speaking, you want to be able to hit the bottom of the pizza with heat (from the pre-heated plate) WHILE the top is being broiled, not before or after. This means that you want the stone towards the top of the oven, not the bottom. Moving the pizza around mid bake really doesn't work. The biggest downside to 1/2" steel is that it can be difficult to take in and out of the oven so you can bake other things.  If there is a chance you can get away with 3/8" or 1/4" steel or even a ceramic option, it will save your back when it's time to use the oven for other stuff.

[FJPhil]

Water is a pretty good idea for testing the weight bearing capacity of the shelf- as long as you use a wide/deep container that spreads the weight out to something close to that 17" x 17" dimension. A tall container will focus more weight on a smaller portion of the shelf and further stress it.

40 lbs., spread out over a wide area, is not that much weight for a typical oven shelf.  Think 28ish lb. Thanksgiving turkey + pan + veggies and you're in that ball park. It would be kind of ridiculous for an oven manufacturer to produce a shelf that can't support a big Thanksgiving turkey.

Phil, it's pretty rare that I say this, but there's a chance you might not need 1/2" steel plate.  From reading your older posts, it looks like your goal is primarily to reproduce Dewey's pizza at home.  Dewey's, being a NY/American hybrid, doesn't need the fast bake times of 1/2" steel. 1/2" steel is only if you have an inclination to make an authentic NY pizza.

What kind of stone are you working with now?  I've seen screens in some of your older posts- before you take the steel plate plunge, I'd do two things:

1. Remove the screen from the equation and learn how to master a peel

2. Go to Dewey's, and, if possible, time a bake.

Etc.......

Thanks for the reply Scott, right now I'm kinda focused on replicating Dewey's because thats my current project/obsession.  I like to make pan pizzas as well..and sometime in the near future was looking to get into some more NY style pizzas. I really don't have any problems launching pizzas off a peel, and would do it somewhat frequently when I had a working pizza stone.  I would classify Dewey's itself as a sorta American/NY style hybrid.  I know their bake times are relatively short (although I have never timed one), and that they are baked directly on steel deck ovens (I think there are videos on youtube).

I currently don't have any sort of hearth material (I just broke my stone a few weeks ago), which is why I am looking into the steel.  I was also interested in the Corderite kiln shelves, but from everything I have read, steel seems to be superior. I don't really mind the weight issue (aside from it breaking my oven), I'm a fairly strong guy and I cook with cast iron all the time. 

Here's the other thing to note...I dont forsee myself cooking more than maybe 2 pizzas in succession.  So if I can get the proper amount of heat retention out of 3/8 or 1/4" for that, I would be fine..especially since the thinner plate should speed up my preheat times.     

[scott123]

Phil, if you think you might, at some point, venture into my NYish style pizzas, then I think you're going to have to go with 1/2" plate.  It really depends on the oven, but 3/8" usually can't break the 6 minute bake barrier- Dewey's might be in that 6 minute realm, but, for NY, you're going to want to go down as low as 4.

Like I said before, I think your shelf should be fine with 17 x 17 x 1/2 steel plate.  If you're really feeling uneasy about it, though, don't forget that you can make your own support out of rebar or flat steel bar and run that from shelf lip to shelf lip, removing the shelf from the equation.

Here's a member using steel bars to support his stone:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12692.msg126602.html#msg126602

[FJPhil]

Thanks for the advice Scott....I'm currently trying to track down a steel plate. Living in Cleveland, it should be easy..I have 3 emails out to Fab shops now....we'll see if I get any nibbles.

Im hoping my oven will be ok...if not, I will make it work!

[FJPhil]

Update : Found a place nearby that Im getting my 17" by 17" 1/2" thick steel plate for $20 this afternoon. 

Now I just need to track down a good 24 hour dough recipe I can use to try this plate out tomorrow night!